KSC USP (System 7, Metal slide) or Umarex USP

[randomscruff]

Hi there,

Just wondering if anyone has experience with either of these GBBP's? I'm tossing up between them as I found a place where I can get the older KSC.

Cheers,

Scruff

[BioRage]

Get the KWA USP, NS2 System 7 ones.

Don't bother with the older ones.

[OPENchestWOUND]

Originally Posted by BioRage

Get the KWA USP, NS2 System 7 ones.

Don't bother with the older ones.

^i agree^ KWA\KSC USP is a solid gun.

[talon]

System 7 is superior in most respects. I have experience with the compacts both old and new, and while some of solid-feeling isn't present in the new system 7, and the recoil spring in KWA guns is aenemic, they otherwise perform very well.

Additionally, non-system 7 are all plastic, and the triggers have a tendency to break. To my knowledge, and in my experience, this has been alleviated in system 7, though the USPc I'm using is experiencing considerably less use compared to the original USPc that I initially bought. Parts for the older system will be difficult to find, particularly a metal slide and recoil spring to go with it. Some of the lower frame parts may fit, though I haven't experimented at all, due to not needing to replace anything yet in the current system 7.

However, KSC will have better trades and none of the white warning writing, a slightly better in-hand feel, and is still a rock solid piece of kit. You'd just likely need to order a couple triggers in the event that they break during use. If you can get them on the cheap, it may not be a bad idea to buy a couple, though KWA guns tend to be rather inexpensive already.

And finally, I'm speaking of my experience with the USPc, not the full-size USP which came out quite a bit later than the USPc, which may include some improvements in the design.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by talon

System 7 is superior in most respects. I have experience with the compacts both old and new, and while some of solid-feeling isn't present in the new system 7, and the recoil spring in KWA guns is aenemic, they otherwise perform very well.

Additionally, non-system 7 are all plastic, and the triggers have a tendency to break. To my knowledge, and in my experience, this has been alleviated in system 7, though the USPc I'm using is experience considerably less use compared to the original USPc that I initially bought. Parts for the older system will be difficult to find, particularly a metal slide and recoil spring to go with it. Some of the lower frame parts may fit, though I haven't experimented at all, due to not needing to replace anything yet in the current system 7.

However, KSC will have better trades and none of the white warning writing, a slightly better in-hand feel, and is still a rock solid piece of kit. You'd just likely need to order a couple triggers in the event that they break during use. If you can get them on the cheap, it may not be a bad idea to buy a couple, though KWA guns tend to be rather inexpensive already.

And finally, I'm speaking of my experience with the USPc, not the full-size USP which came out quite a bit later than the USPc, which may include some improvements in the design.

I had a full size KWA USP, TA had a few and were selling them in-store only. $210+tax?

Picked it up, was well for quite some time. I think less then 7 magazines and the trigger snapped, was quite upset. They are also not the "friendliest" to work on, as opposed to a G17. Those trigger bars annoy me to no end now.

[talon]

Originally Posted by BioRage

I had a full size KWA USP, TA had a few and were selling them in-store only. $210+tax?

Picked it up, was well for quite some time. I think less then 7 magazines and the trigger snapped, was quite upset. They are also not the "friendliest" to work on, as opposed to a G17. Those trigger bars annoy me to no end now.

Yeah, just did a quick search. I think there's less of a problem with it, but it's not been solved apparently. You can get a real trigger to fit, it just needs a little bit of modification. I've not done it myself, but I know there are some on this board who have.

However, taking apart the USP is a bit tricky. I had to do it a few times for my non-System 7 to swap out triggers, and then eventually other parts as well (as they broke while taking it apart, or simply due to an over-abundance of use).

[hattrick]

Oh talon, I remember back in 06 when I messaged you with hope of fixing the usp compacts -made to fail- trigger. From the people I spoke to, you were the only one who loved that pistol enough to put in the work. Everyone else shrugged it off as a defective product & gave up on their dreams of owning a NICE & reliable H&k pistol.

With marui comming out with the hk45 in under two weeks (go look on arnies) I can only hope they've done it right from the start.....

[talon]

Yeah, I remember that! Are you still able to modify the real triggers to make 'em fit? Because I'd be interested now (simply for cool-factor). I wasn't able to commit before due to cost issues (and then the whole damned pistol fell apart D. So far, the USPct I've got now is rock solid.

They're great guns overall. I really wish someone would make an HK45c, as that one simply is more up my alley (and doesn't have those weird finger grips that I'm not sure I'm a fan of). Time will tell!

One last difference that I had noticed between the system 7 and non-system 7 was that the trigger pull had gotten a little bit worse in the updated version. Previously, in non-system 7, you could feel the whole first pressure, second pressure, bang. In the current iteration that I've got, it's more of a mush to shoot. The pressures are less discernible. Doesn't REALLY affect it too much, but like I said, the original versions were a little better for hand-feel.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by talon

Yeah, I remember that! Are you still able to modify the real triggers to make 'em fit? Because I'd be interested now (simply for cool-factor). I wasn't able to commit before due to cost issues (and then the whole damned pistol fell apart D. So far, the USPct I've got now is rock solid.

They're great guns overall. I really wish someone would make an HK45c, as that one simply is more up my alley (and doesn't have those weird finger grips that I'm not sure I'm a fan of). Time will tell!

One last difference that I had noticed between the system 7 and non-system 7 was that the trigger pull had gotten a little bit worse in the updated version. Previously, in non-system 7, you could feel the whole first pressure, second pressure, bang. In the current iteration that I've got, it's more of a mush to shoot. The pressures are less discernible. Doesn't REALLY affect it too much, but like I said, the original versions were a little better for hand-feel.

My opinion - I would never get another KWA USP, just on the fact that it was hard to source parts. I was lucky enough to find a salvage one and picked it up and fixed my trigger. I waited for 3 months or so for KWAUSA to re-stock, no luck.

I had trouble trying to source a Real-Steel USP trigger, companies from the US refused to ship to me. Granted if you do find one, it will solve your problems.

The magazines I also found were a hassle to fix, they have two pins at the bottom of the mag, and it was almost impossible to place them back in.

Obviously this is my experience, I haven't had great experiences with KWA products, but regardless, the USP does look nice and I still like them. I just would never get another one.

However, the new TM HK45 looks quite interesting.

Perhaps BigBuzz can get some in. hehehehehe.

[randomscruff]

Okay so I think I'm going to go for the KSC System 7 USP as I prefer the more realistic trades. I can expect to upgrade the trigger then huh. Is it a design flaw which keeps breaking the trigger or is it that the stock trigger is of poor quality?

[randomscruff]

Is the trigger issues only in compacts or in the full size also? I'm planning on buying the full size.

[DipTwit]

I have the (newer NS2 / System 7) compact, and used it pretty heavy over the 2 years I've had it. Trigger has lasted just fine - only part that wore down was the mag release "flap"

I agree though that getting parts is a bugger - never did get a replacement for that mag release... had to "forge" it to work again, but it's life span won't be too too long. Found similar issues getting parts for my NS2 KMP9 as well. BUT they really are nice models.

[randomscruff]

This is the pistol I'm looking at :

http://airsoft.tiger111hk.com/p18771...duct_info.html

[talon]

That's the same as a KWA NS2 USP. I forget the politics exactly, but KWA manufactures the products, and makes the exact same thing as KSC. There was talk of better QC for KSC guns from Japan, but I'm not sure if that still holds true at this point. Looks like the orange tip isn't there, indicating that it's the Japanese version, rather than the one for the US market.

KWA USA should still supply parts as needed, but again, this is older info. You should check out their forums and see what the talk is on that matter.

[BioRage]

Wouldn't count on KWAUSA to supply you parts.

It's been over 8 months and they have yet to stock their USP triggers.

http://store.kwausa.com/partskp45gas...ssembly-1.aspx

Also be weary ordering from Asia, especially if they don't meet the fps requirement.

There are other means of shipping pistols to you, but chances of it getting confiscated it 50/50.

You could get Age Verified and look at our retailers and classified, often see USPS for sale.