ASCA - Sale of final AEG stock

[saintlycricket]

"We have some members here with political lobbying background who have come forward as well, so I think you're right Droc, I think hitting our MPs with our point of view is the starting point."

Completely agreed. We need to get an information package together of some sorts as well as a very well written and drafted letter expressing our concerns desires and suggestions. Once this is done we can have it available to download and customise with MP's name etc. Then have everyone download and submit it to the MP. This information package should include A) A draft of the problem B) Our suggestions on a solution C) Information on the sport in general D) Saftey procedures and age restrictions in practice E) Openness to suggestion from the government side on a solution.


To address the issue of robbing banks with airsoft guns... You would think this would be an advantage lol. People who are going to rob banks are goign to do so regardless, now would you rather them do it with a real gun or one that if it misfires will only leave a bruise ? Not saying this should be part of our political platform, only that its something funny to think about.

[wKnight]

anything presented to the government has to include economic benefits if you want them to pay any attention

[trufret]

They're getting tax from sales and promoting tourism in Canada when players travel to games. Those are economic benefits for sure.

[Fidget11]

as well as duties on the goods imported, accessories, and if changes were made the import of guns as well. the actual impact of airsoft on the economy extends beyond the games. the ability to openly have retailers would offer employment there and increased ability to collect taxes because of the associated additional incomes and gst on what is sold. . an enhanced ability to actually get the gear would mean more players, so more fields, more employment and other benefits there.

those are the things i can think of just off the top of my head for what kinds of economic impacts it would have...

[Bakes]

Completely agreed. We need to get an information package together of some sorts as well as a very well written and drafted letter expressing our concerns desires and suggestions. Once this is done we can have it available to download and customise with MP's name etc. Then have everyone download and submit it to the MP. This information package should include A) A draft of the problem B) Our suggestions on a solution C) Information on the sport in general D) Saftey procedures and age restrictions in practice E) Openness to suggestion from the government side on a solution.

Yup, send me a package.

[baraccuda]

I was reading a post before and some one mentioned the license idea. Well may be not a P.A.L. but what about something along the lines of a fishing license you pay X amount for X amount of years to fish. Well you pay X amount for a X amount of years to play air soft. The New Government makes money off of the license.
If you do not have a license, or you are using an air soft rifle in a way it was no meant to be used e.g. bank robbery…… ect, and you get caught you get a large fine, jail term, or other forms of punish meant. This could sound hard to some people but if we treat air soft like real guns in some ways, why not have real penalty’s for people’s actions.

[Cortexburn]

The advantage to the PAL over the fishing licence is that due to the process to get a PAL the retards are weeded out, it's a system that is already in place so adapting it to include airosoft isn't that hard and it has airsoft regulated in a more serious manner. The consequences for selling to minors is much more harsh then some BS " airsoft licence ".

As you mentioned...we treat ( or should be...) airsoft like real guns...so why not just complete the process and require PAL's. Having a seperate " airsoft only" licence either in PAL version or otherwise is not going to happen. It isn't plausable let alone in the eyes of the government even realistic.

[Vivisector]

Originally Posted by Cortexburn

The advantage to the PAL over the fishing licence is that due to the process to get a PAL the retards are weeded out, it's a system that is already in place so adapting it to include airosoft isn't that hard and it has airsoft regulated in a more serious manner. The consequences for selling to minors is much more harsh then some BS " airsoft licence ".

As you mentioned...we treat ( or should be...) airsoft like real guns...so why not just complete the process and require PAL's. Having a seperate " airsoft only" licence either in PAL version or otherwise is not going to happen. It isn't plausable let alone in the eyes of the government even realistic.

Also, the government seems to be hell bent on treating them as replicas covered under the firearms act. So it'd probably be easier to swallow for them if we let them do so, and at the same time bring our side to the table. I"m starting to think that a PAL based system would be a really good idea for all involved.

[Wrong Way]

What you don't understand re: replicas, is that ANYONE can own one....10 yr old, clinical psycho, your grandma....anyone.

It's how the law relates to IMPORTING them that'll screw ya.

Want to make a huge difference? Somebody start importing parts and set up a manufacturing plant here in cunukistan.

[spacemoose]

Originally Posted by Wrong Way

What you don't understand re: replicas, is that ANYONE can own one....10 yr old, clinical psycho, your grandma....anyone.

It's how the law relates to IMPORTING them that'll screw ya.

Want to make a huge difference? Somebody start importing parts and set up a manufacturing plant here in cunukistan.

Not all parts that build a gun can be imported.

Nice try, genius.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Wrong Way

What you don't understand re: replicas, is that ANYONE can own one....10 yr old, clinical psycho, your grandma....anyone.

It's how the law relates to IMPORTING them that'll screw ya.

Want to make a huge difference? Somebody start importing parts and set up a manufacturing plant here in cunukistan.

Point 1. only people over 18 not under a weapon prohibition can own replica firearms.

Point 2. Manufacturing prohibited devices is illegal

[Brian McIlmoyle]

All the talk about PAL and classifying Airsoft guns under a PAL , although not wrongheaded is fruitless.

If we look over the past year and trace events.. the change in enforcment was set up and executed according to what appears to be a planned "assault" on Replicas.

It started with tightening of import rules.. we saw some seizures of restricted item shipments to licensed importers..

Then the KANG appeal came up in late spring where several airsoft guns were defined as replicas.

Then we saw a unlicensed re-seller charged in Quebec..

And then the collapse of the western Canada dealer network

and now the charging of a unlicensed importer and retailer..Here in Ontario

In every case the issue was not ownership of replicas.. the issue is the import and retail of replicas to individuals.
This is the target of enforcement in my opinion.

According to the law there is no legal way for a licensed importer to retail replicas to individuals.. ( the same as there is no legal way for individuals to sell replicas to other individuals )

The Airsoft community has danced around the " are they or aren't they" ( replicas) for years... it seems clear that when the police lay charges .. that point gains some clarity. It remains to be seen if the charges stick or ever make it to court...

Which brings me to Licensing.... in order to get "airsoft" under a PAL there would need to be a substantial overhaul of the Criminal Code with respect to firearms...resulting in a substantial relaxing of certain main items of the code..
or at the very least substantal re writing of the code to integrate replicas.. I can't see the government seeing any benefit to society to do so...

Although I have been an opponent to the "underground" airsoft community.. it seems clear that in the face of action against the sources of replicas.. we as a community will be driven underground..at least when it comes to sourcing our tools.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

it seems clear that when the police lay charges .. that point gains some clarity. It remains to be seen if the charges stick or ever make it to court...

Yes, the term "moot" comes to mind. We have yet to see a test case in court of an individual with an airsoft gun charged as having a prohibited device.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Which brings me to Licensing.... in order to get "airsoft" under a PAL there would need to be a substantial overhaul of the Criminal Code with respect to firearms...resulting in a substantial relaxing of certain main items of the code..
or at the very least substantal re writing of the code to integrate replicas.. I can't see the government seeing any benefit to society to do so...

There would be very little to do. This is not an overhaul of the complete CCC for Christ's sake, this is a simple wording change to the Firearms Act, which can be done in OIC without the need for public consultation or Parliamentary oversight.

The infrastructure, evaluations, standards of licensing and import permits are already in place. So what if they have to create one or two new forms to fill out. There is a bureaucracy already in place for that too.

Don't try to make a bigger issue out of a policy change than it needs to be. These things happen at the adminstrative level with the CFC all the time.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

There would be very little to do. This is not an overhaul of the complete CCC for Christ's sake, this is a simple wording change to the Firearms Act, which can be done in OIC without the need for public consultation or Parliamentary oversight.

Granted, but show me an example where an order in council was used to loosen restrictions? Its a liberal mechanism for tightening the screws without having to be accountable to parliment.