Heavy Bastards

[grantmac]

Originally Posted by m102404

LOL...this is priceless. If we ever meet up at a game, remind me to give you the spare change in my car's ashtray so you can buy enough ammo for the game...

Anyway...back to the point. 0.30's are fine for me for now. I would like to try heavier...but probably not enough to make it worth your while to bring them in. I'd love to see some distance vs. accuracy tests with 0.30/0.32/0.36+ BBs (must go and Google now...)

I agree that this thread is not about my personal finances, airsoft is not a financial priority for me as it is for some. Yes the consumables are cheap, but that doesn't make them any less of an expense.

My opinion is that the .3s are too much for the performance increase.
I am also of the opinion that they are priced and packaged somewhere near the point of diminishing returns, IE: less people buying due to price is actually resulting in less overall profit.

As to getting cases from overseas: yes 25 bags works out to be similar in cost to Bastards when the shipping is calulated. But if your already buying parts and tag-on say 3-5 bags then you end-up fairly far ahead. I would still buy bastards though as I think they are a superior product.
Cheers,
Grant

[Hades]

I'd be in for a preforder on some heavier weights. Bought a few bags of .3's and absolutly love them! Would be nice for some heavier weights seeing I'm starting to run low on my .36's

[Donster]

i believe it was scarescrow or someone, who said that the performance difference between .34 and .36 are MINIMAL. that being said, it is no wonder sales of the .3 product are low. the minimal performance increase between .28 and .3 with cost and quantity factored in make it a loosing game i think. if .3s were dropped to make way, strictly for heavier weight, than great. now that being said, if .3s were cheaper to begin with, i would most likely buy them. but after i finish this batch of .25s, i plan on buying strictly .28s and using heavy bbs in my Kar98k only.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125

i believe it was scarescrow or someone, who said that the performance difference between .34 and .36 are MINIMAL. that being said, it is no wonder sales of the .3 product are low. the minimal performance increase between .28 and .3 with cost and quantity factored in make it a loosing game i think. if .3s were dropped to make way, strictly for heavier weight, than great. now that being said, if .3s were cheaper to begin with, i would most likely buy them. but after i finish this batch of .25s, i plan on buying strictly .28s and using heavy bbs in my Kar98k only.

I am never one to quibble with reality and there is some truth to what you say here, but there is a perviso on that - each gun depending on the 'storm' of parts you put in it, will naturally have (I believe) a sweet weight and size that in many cases can't be predicted. Brian M.'s found .30's work really well with GBBs, the PTW crowd sees significant performance differences between .28 and .30 - don't forget, that .02 difference, along with a couple of other differences (yes, there are a couple) can make a world of difference *if* you're system is set up to take advantage of it - in most cases here, that happens by accident rather than by design.

The .34 and .40 differences I think will be startling and I don't think the non-upgraded crowd will want it (here I am knocking my own product). .28 from CDN_Stalker's tests and my own observations seems to be the sweetest you can get with non-upgraded and mildly upgraded guns - beyond .28 you need more power to get the same distances you would get with a lighter product - but when you do get the higher power you get better travel distance in a tighter grouping - but you have to design your system to get that effect. Shooting .30, .34 or .40 won't necessarily make a better shot unless your gun is designed for it.

I hear what you guys are saying about price but there is little I can do about the first batch of .30 - I may discount it and take a loss on it, but, as you can see other retailers are reluctant to stock the higher weights for precisely the same reasons I am suffering from right now.

Here, ponder this - from my point of view, why cannibalize my sales of .20 and .25 product (much less expensive to buy and ship for me) for a higher weight product, with higher cost to make less overall profit? For instance, $10 per bag of 1000 won't ever happen unless I am liquidating my stock because thats below my cost. You have to factor in more than just manufacturing and as some point out, shipping and customs, plus PST and GST eat up any discount you get when you buy direct from Asia. I have to do sea-container shipping, in quantities of 1000+ bags to make it worthwhile. Keep in mind unlike Jugglez, Illusion, and the various other guys here who peddle airstock (intentional misspelling) I focus primarily on BBs and nothing else - I don't offset my costs with the sales of springs or other such items. And with me having doing this since 2004, a lot of the airstock retailers are shying away from BBs because of me - I am scaled to do it profitably - if they are shipping 1kg from HK, why do it for a heavy bag of BBs when that same 1kg could be 30 springs at 50% markup, blowing away any profit I am making kilogram for kilogram. The only reason I don't do it is because I wouldn't know a spring if it bit me in the ass and customer support would suck - guys like Jugglez and Illusion can support the product way better and ultimately thats more important than the initial cost.

Anyways, I thought it would be worth sharing some of my logic with you on this so you can see that I've thought about these arguments quite a bit already.

[Sha Do]

Well said Jay....well said.

SHA DO

[grantmac]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

I am never one to quibble with reality and there is some truth to what you say here, but there is a perviso on that - each gun depending on the 'storm' of parts you put in it, will naturally have (I believe) a sweet weight and size that in many cases can't be predicted. Brian M.'s found .30's work really well with GBBs, the PTW crowd sees significant performance differences between .28 and .30 - don't forget, that .02 difference, along with a couple of other differences (yes, there are a couple) can make a world of difference *if* you're system is set up to take advantage of it - in most cases here, that happens by accident rather than by design.

The .34 and .40 differences I think will be startling and I don't think the non-upgraded crowd will want it (here I am knocking my own product). .28 from CDN_Stalker's tests and my own observations seems to be the sweetest you can get with non-upgraded and mildly upgraded guns - beyond .28 you need more power to get the same distances you would get with a lighter product - but when you do get the higher power you get better travel distance in a tighter grouping - but you have to design your system to get that effect. Shooting .30, .34 or .40 won't necessarily make a better shot unless your gun is designed for it.

I hear what you guys are saying about price but there is little I can do about the first batch of .30 - I may discount it and take a loss on it, but, as you can see other retailers are reluctant to stock the higher weights for precisely the same reasons I am suffering from right now.

Here, ponder this - from my point of view, why cannibalize my sales of .20 and .25 product (much less expensive to buy and ship for me) for a higher weight product, with higher cost to make less overall profit? For instance, $10 per bag of 1000 won't ever happen unless I am liquidating my stock because thats below my cost. You have to factor in more than just manufacturing and as some point out, shipping and customs, plus PST and GST eat up any discount you get when you buy direct from Asia. I have to do sea-container shipping, in quantities of 1000+ bags to make it worthwhile. Keep in mind unlike Jugglez, Illusion, and the various other guys here who peddle airstock (intentional misspelling) I focus primarily on BBs and nothing else - I don't offset my costs with the sales of springs or other such items. And with me having doing this since 2004, a lot of the airstock retailers are shying away from BBs because of me - I am scaled to do it profitably - if they are shipping 1kg from HK, why do it for a heavy bag of BBs when that same 1kg could be 30 springs at 50% markup, blowing away any profit I am making kilogram for kilogram. The only reason I don't do it is because I wouldn't know a spring if it bit me in the ass and customer support would suck - guys like Jugglez and Illusion can support the product way better and ultimately thats more important than the initial cost.

Anyways, I thought it would be worth sharing some of my logic with you on this so you can see that I've thought about these arguments quite a bit already.

This is exactly why I like your products, you communicate exactly what is going on with the business and any problems your having with the products.
Although I may never use the .3s regularly I do love your .28s and will continue to use them for as long as they are the hot ticket.
Cheers,
Grant

[arman]

Originally Posted by coachster

I would rather pay for black BB's in .25 or .28 over going heavier.

+1

Originally Posted by BeAcH

I just mix black and white bbs together, 60/40 works alot better than straight black bb's

nice

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

No, I`d never do rice bags. It brings up the opportunity to rebrand them and Ive put too much work into my brand.

but a sale is a sale??..

[THENAMEISJOHN]

I've got .28 bb's made of perfectly rounded glass. Yes, glass!! And it does shoot through window panes. As for on the skin... it's worse than a welt... it's actually a bloody mess... but bad thing about it, you can't see who you're shooting... it's completely transparent... but it hurts like bloody fucking hell and there are people out there who deserve this kind of punishment. Why? Have you guys ever met a player who gets shot a lot but never admits it? We got plenty of those people here...
The heavies are nice, but i hear there coming out with the latest .35 glass bb's.

[Cheeseduck]

cool never heard of glass bb's before. but if u try to shoot glass bb's anywhr here u'll probably b expelled from playing airsoft in most places cause an incident like that would spead quick on asc. if one of those ever shattered in your skin or a broken shard knicked an artery your straight f*cked. if you are coming into canada i strongly suggest not ever using them here and if your already here i very very strongly suggest you stop.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by THENAMEISJOHN

I've got .28 bb's made of perfectly rounded glass. Yes, glass!! And it does shoot through window panes. As for on the skin... it's worse than a welt... it's actually a bloody mess... but bad thing about it, you can't see who you're shooting... it's completely transparent... but it hurts like bloody fucking hell and there are people out there who deserve this kind of punishment. Why? Have you guys ever met a player who gets shot a lot but never admits it? We got plenty of those people here...
The heavies are nice, but i hear there coming out with the latest .35 glass bb's.

You're an idiot. I can only assume this is a joke post because I can't believe someone would be this stupid.

[Donster]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

You're an idiot. I can only assume this is a joke post because I can't believe someone would be this stupid.

no. i have seen these glas bbs on the internet. what make them so... unique is their ability to not only be reused, but also because they are seamless and bla bla bla. though even the company said not to shoot them at rocks because they can shatter.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125

no. i have seen these glas bbs on the internet. what make them so... unique is their ability to not only be reused, but also because they are seamless and bla bla bla. though even the company said not to shoot them at rocks because they can shatter.

Thats unbelievable. Glass?? I wouldn't use them at an airsoft game shooting at people, thats insane. Advice not to shoot them against rocks? What about outdoor gaming around hardened structures? Shatters and richochets?? My god, I can't believe someone would manufacture and sell that. Obviously they have no regard for the safety of the players being shot at.

[coach]

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125

no. i have seen these glas bbs on the internet. what make them so... unique is their ability to not only be reused, but also because they are seamless and bla bla bla. though even the company said not to shoot them at rocks because they can shatter.

wouldn't glass chip? why would you want to reuse glass bb's with the chance that there's a chip or a crack in it? chips would scratch up your barrel and destroy your hop up. small cracks will cause it to shatter on surfaces other than just rocks.

[Scarecrow]

You can tell who hasn't played paintball and who has. I love it when people say 2000 BBs costing $10 is expensive - I remember when that bought you 20 paintballs...

[BeAcH]

very true scarecrow....