City of Markham Ontario bans all replica firearm sales with new by-law 2012-196

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

TRANSFER of replica firearms is illegal, ownership is 100% legal

Possessing or Acquiring Replica Firearms

Individuals may keep any replicas that they owned on December 1, 1998. A licence is not required to possess a replica firearm, and it does not have to be registered. However, individuals cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm. If a replica firearm is taken out of Canada, it cannot be brought back in. Businesses may possess, acquire or import replica firearms only if they have a valid Firearms Business Licence that allows them to possess prohibited devices for an approved purpose.

You are wrong.

As quoted above. Any other replica firearms are Prohibited Devices - and are illegal to possess, acquire, and transfer. If you own a replica firearm that was released after 1998, it would then be physically impossible to obtain before 1998 - and thus, illegal.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by mmmken

You are wrong.

As quoted above. Any other replica firearms are Prohibited Devices - and are illegal to possess, acquire, and transfer. If you own a replica firearm that was released after 1998, it would then be physically impossible to obtain before 1998 - and thus, illegal.

sorry.. you are wrong Possession has no date of acquisition limit

The criminal code states possession of replicas ( regardless of when how or where you got them) is not an offense

and here we go again.... Only a court of law can define a replica, it's done on a case by case basis in light of prosecution for a offense.

And a 2010 BC lower court ruling significantly raised the bar on what can be considered a replica.

Before you spout absolutes.. you should at least be up on current jurisprudence.

RCMP "fact sheets" do not represent the law.. the law represents the law and the RCMP fact sheets are woefully out of date and simplistic.

[CR0M]

Originally Posted by mr_nuts31

I doubt it would change much, most of the sales is in Pacific Mall and you know how many businesses there follow the law? Let's be honest, do you really think this bylaw would stop sales in PMall? At least there's Splendid China Tower across the street from PMall on the Toronto side.

lol exactly...

police would have to walk past 100 vendors selling bootlegged movies and bags before they found the airsoft. So by then they would already be too tired to cared lol

[L473ncy]

Hey, isn't that Adrian kids operation based out of Markham? I guess if Bylaw Enforcement goes to talk to him this is one more thing to add a fine for as well as possibly not having a business license.

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

sorry.. you are wrong Possession has no date of acquisition limit

The criminal code states possession of replicas ( regardless of when how or where you got them) is not an offense

and here we go again.... Only a court of law can define a replica, it's done on a case by case basis in light of prosecution for a offense.

And a 2010 BC lower court ruling significantly raised the bar on what can be considered a replica.

Before you spout absolutes.. you should at least be up on current jurisprudence.

RCMP "fact sheets" do not represent the law.. the law represents the law and the RCMP fact sheets are woefully out of date and simplistic.

Allow me to play the devil's advocate here for the purpose to understand the legalities of Airsoft more clearly. Quoted below, you made mention of replica firearms specifically.

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

In the UK it is a serious criminal offense to posses a replica firearm.. in Canada it is 100% legal

The main reason why I raised the issue, is because our sport is not 100% black and white legally acceptable as you made mention in your post. We are very much, and still are operating within "the grey area" at the moment. Ruling out more legislation as bad may be a little premature.

While the RCMP fact sheet is not in itself law, it is very much an accurate summary. There is nothing wrong with possessing a replica firearm, but there is a problem with acquiring a firearm that was released after 1998. If you possess a replica firearm that was released after 1998, it is simple to deduce that you were only able to acquire it after 1998 and thus, you have committed an offence.

Whether or not guns shooting below 366FPS (or whatever) are considered replica firearms is another story.

[Trev140_0]

I will comment a bit later on this "your relatively new" shit.

Counting backwards from 100.

Need to choose my words for the jackasses who feel the ASC join date tag somehow gives them the all mighty grand poo bahh position.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by mmmken

Allow me to play the devil's advocate here for the purpose to understand the legalities of Airsoft more clearly. Quoted below, you made mention of replica firearms specifically.



The main reason why I raised the issue, is because our sport is not 100% black and white legally acceptable as you made mention in your post. We are very much, and still are operating within "the grey area" at the moment. Ruling out more legislation as bad may be a little premature.

While the RCMP fact sheet is not in itself law, it is very much an accurate summary. There is nothing wrong with possessing a replica firearm, but there is a problem with acquiring a firearm that was released after 1998. If you possess a replica firearm that was released after 1998, it is simple to deduce that you were only able to acquire it after 1998 and thus, you have committed an offence.

Whether or not guns shooting below 366FPS (or whatever) are considered replica firearms is another story.

It's only grey if you don't understand the law.

its only a problem if the item acquired is in fact a replica, and this can only be assessed by a court with a side by side comparison with a real firearm of the same model.

The BC lower court decision indicated that just external resemblance was insufficient to meet the test.. the item must also replicate with near precision the internal attributes of a real firearm.. Very very few airsoft guns would meet this test.

Every airsoft gun meets the test of being a imitation Firearm, some are deemed to be unregulated firearms .. but only those that have been entered as evidence in a prosecution have been proven to be replicas. Once Deemed a replica.. such a definition applies only to that specific item.. and not at all to the other identical models that may be possessed by other people.

the UK definition for a replica is broader than that in Canada, and is closer in fact to the Canadian definition for an imitation firearm.

In addition.. in Canada you are innocent until proven guilty. So coming into possession of an item that is not proven to be a replica can not be an offense.

AAAnD all of this has been hashed out countless times.. do we really need to go there again?

[GBBR]

I really don't see why everyone is making such a big deal outta this.
NAME 1 GOOD RETAILER IN MARKHAM!
NAME ONE RETAILER IN MARKHAM THAT HAS GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE, GOOD PRICES, AND ALOT OF GUNS IN STOCK!

[BELObeatz]

Who is buying airsoft off the shelves in P-Mall anyway?? Have you seen the prices?? The ban of sale is a good thing because if you are buying an airsoft gun at those locations you know nothing about the sport and are probably the idiot shooting squirrels and your friends at school.

[▼Stripes▲]

Originally Posted by GBBR

I really don't see why everyone is making such a big deal outta this.

Try reading the thread. They make their points very clearly.

[Jackals]

For those less educated folk (and post #8 of this thread):

91(2) Unauthorized possession of prohibited weapon or restricted weapon

Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition, without being the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.

"prohibited weapon” means
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or
(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon;

"replica firearm” means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;

Someone please tell me where this says ownership is illegal.

Further the RCMP / CFP website fact sheets are not always correct. Always use them in reference to the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code.

EDIT: Is this a big deal for the majority of airsoft in Canada, maybe as it could set a dangerous precedent. Is it right now, not really.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

just as a post script..

"replica firearm” means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;


As I mentioned above .. in 2011 a BC lower court decision ( that has not been appealed to my knowledge) the definition of replica was applied more stringently and the Judge determined that in order to be a replica the item must exactly resemble or resemble with near precision a real firearm both internaly and externaly. Obviously this is a pretty high test.. and would exclude any and all AEGs form being replicas.

As a lower court decision in BC it is not a sweeping precident.. but it is a precident all the same.

( this does not have any effect on CBSA's definition )

[Trev140_0]

We can debate this all day long but the core of this comes from this:

In recent weeks, a Markham woman was shot in the face during a stroll through a local park with her child and a 15-year-old Newmarket boy was detained by police after being seen casually strolling down the street with an AR-15 assault riffle, which turned out to be a replica.
Gun-related calls often attract a large police presence due to the innate volatility of such reports.
Since the beginning of 2011, York Regional Police has seized 114 replica guns.



"The problem is heightened by residents' concern about firearms and the increased appearance of the airsoft weapons in public areas. Earlier this month, a Woodbridge man was arrested and charged after police allege he pointed a silver air gun at a fellow driver in retaliation for the being on the receiving end of a middle-finger while on Hwy. 401"

cont

Days earlier, police arrested six youths after receiving a call about a gun being loaded in a moving car in Aurora.
One airsoft enthusiast and small business owner said the industry is very stringent when it comes to rule breakers.
"It's booming right now and competes head-to-head with paintball," said Emilio Cariati, manager of Mach 1 Airsoft. "We have strict rules (and) players can get blacklisted and will have a tough time finding a place to play if they don't take a responsible approach.
"You just hope they don't fall into the wrong hands. There are always going to be idiots capable of doing wrong in any sport."


Reaction:
Cut off the supply.

That would be unfortunate for such a great sport hobby/passtime.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

We can debate this all day long but the core of this comes from this:




Reaction:
Cut off the supply.

That would be unfortunate for such a great sport hobby/passtime.

I agree with you 100% it is rather reactionary..

but this is kinda my point about the airsoft community being a vicitm of it's own success.. as popularity grows .. incidents like this will increase.

Far more incidents happen with paintball... walk through almost any wooded area or wooded public park and you will find evidence of illicit paintball games.

kids shoot passing cars with paintballs pretty much daily somewhere in the GTA.. most are not reported to police.

It's the realism of the airsoft guns that are problematic.. coupled with the gunshy nature of the public today.

City bylaws are not likley to be very effective in curbing the growth of this activity.. but it certaily could put a crimp in the proliferation of storefront sales, at least in Markham.


The story above should be posted in every thread where an underage person mentions how "mature" he is, and how he should be able to buy airsoft guns.

[Spike]

Our SUV convoy got lit up by paintballs on the way to Rhino II in the middle of buttfuck Irving Country at like 2300h..