Heavy Bastards

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125

you are quite right in your general conclusion. but i respectively disagree. in high powers spring and gas rifles, heavy weight bbs will provide a flight path similar to match grade ammunition. in the Tanaka Kar98k. I have seen it shoot 377 with .3 bbs. now imagine how it would shoot with .34 or .36? it would be phenomenal! It would shoot straight, hard, accurate and cut down anything within its effective range. While i admit that the range would be cut down compared to say .3, the effectiveness in its new range would be higher than within the range of .3... if that makes sense.

That is why I said " general need" there is a specific need for higher weight ammo for the maybe 10% of shooters that run platforms that need it.. so its not really worth it for a supplier to stock this stuff in any quantity

[Donster]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

That is why I said " general need" there is a specific need for higher weight ammo for the maybe 10% of shooters that run platforms that need it.. so its not really worth it for a supplier to stock this stuff in any quantity

ah i see. my bad

as for scarecrow, i understand he was having problem trying to obtain materials to make heavier bbs. that being said, why cant you use a small metal bb (1-3 mm in diameter), and coat around it in BB Bastard plastic and polish it. that way it will perform like regular bbs, but also be up to your standards?

[Endymion]

I could see these heavier weights being produced in limited batches available on a pre-order basis, but not as a regularly stocked Bastard item. Given the current price/qty of the 0.30g product, one can't reasonably expect heavier weights to be any less costly. As a "match grade" ammo for special purpose weapons, the quantity used per buyer would also not approach anything near sustainable sales figures to justify keeping stock on hand.

Of those now asking for heavier weights, how many initially jumped for joy at the news of 0.30g being available? Of these, how many have purchased quantities approaching your purchase of other weights?

Personally, I've gone to 0.30g almost exclusively and I won't go back. I purchased 10 bags this season and have gone through almost half - that's about half the number of BBs I went through last season. Sure they cost more per BB, but with their brush penetration and the increased likelihood of targets calling hits sooner as bonuses to their extremely predictable flight path, I just don't need to shoot as much for the same effect (cover fire excepted). I could play over 40 games in a season and the ammo cost would *still* be exponentially less than paintball.

[Donster]

could my bb idea work? its hard to explain, so if my explanation doesn't make sense, i will try to reword it

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125

could my bb idea work? its hard to explain, so if my explanation doesn't make sense, i will try to reword it

NO... besides there is no need, getting a bb up to those weights should not require a metal core. simply adjusting the density of the plastic by adding higher density adjuncts to the composite will do it.

Making a sabot out of a metal core is likley not a good idea.

[DarkAngel]

My concern would be the safety of using a metal ball inside the BB. Especially for those who use mesh masks. I dont use them personally but if the bb shatters on the mesh goggles, the metal ball would have a high probobility of going through. Also I imagine that since there are two completely different materials involved, it would be very difficult for the plastic coating to "stick" to the metal core, allowing for possible movement inside, throwing off ur accuracy and it would also make the BB's substantially prone to shattering. Not to mention the manufacturing costs for a setup capable of manufacturing those...

[Donster]

sounds good. i only offered it because scarecrow mentioned that the additives created a product that was scoured and pot-marked. definitely not up to his standards. i remember him saying.

[Donster]

Originally Posted by DarkAngel

My concern would be the safety of using a metal ball inside the BB. Especially for those who use mesh masks. I dont use them personally but if the bb shatters on the mesh goggles, the metal ball would have a high probobility of going through. Also I imagine that since there are two completely different materials involved, it would be very difficult for the plastic coating to "stick" to the metal core, allowing for possible movement inside, throwing off ur accuracy and it would also make the BB's substantially prone to shattering. Not to mention the manufacturing costs for a setup capable of manufacturing those...

when i say metal core, im referring to a VERY tiny one that is only used to increase the weight of the of bb. if the metal core is 2mm in diamter, there is still 2mm of plastic covering the core all around. currently, i have yet to hear about a BB Bastard BB shattering, though with the introduction of the metal core, it is possible i think

[Endymion]

A 2mm core in a 6mm is a third of the BB - its relative size is no longer tiny. That aside, these BBs simply aren't made that way.

[Donster]

the fact is, people have been demanding heavy bastards for a long time but to this day, other than .3, i haven't see anything. that being said, im still going to be a loyal bastard through and through.

[coach]

I would rather pay for black BB's in .25 or .28 over going heavier.

[Scarecrow]

I apologize for the delay on offering the heavier product. It really is an engineering problem that needed careful study and experimentation.

Doing a core of different material is impractical from a manufacturing point of view - we just can't support a process like that. Also, I would hesitate to use any design that leaves any kind of strata within the product. My primary concern is for those people using mesh goggles and for potential for what happened with the biobbs last summer at Border Wars - the product needs to be shatterproof, or at least extremely shatter resistant for safety purposes. Seams or any kind of differentiate between materials creates a shatter risk. The materials we choose to use to increase weight must be compatible with the polish process, cost effective and consistently distributed within the slurry before forming.

I am getting some minimum ordering and pricing together. Hopefully it will be good enough that those who are considering using a product like this will preorder it. Unfortunately I don't have any samples, but I am assured it is consistent with the product quality you've experienced with .20, .25, .28 and .30, so I have no reason to disbelieve them.

[Wilson]

Originally Posted by coachster

I would rather pay for black BB's in .25 or .28 over going heavier.

+ 1

[FOX_111]

Also, I have no data that show the usefullness of a BB heavyer than 0.43g. in 6mm. Even if the 0.43g was made all metal, at the velocities we use, it would not be dangerous.

[Lakonian]

I'm down for some .36s for my toys...

Black would be nice