AI or Madbull propane adapter?

[fi3re]

alright thanks for the advice, so i bought a madbull adapter becuase im not TOO concerned about the fill valve and would prefer the adapter to last longer...

PROPANE STINKS THOUGH. does anyone know a brand of propane that smells......semi good? i know its for leak detection but,........ i'm using coleman btw... (anyone think green gas smells kinda good? XD)

[Crunchmeister]

Of the brands of propane I've tried to date, I find the Coleman camping stuff in the green containers stinks less. Those tall cans used with the torches tend to have a much stronger smell.

[arman]

Originally Posted by pawscal

I would like to see one of the companies come out with a propane adaptor with a screw on protective cap that covers the tip, one that could be dropped and survive.

+1 cause the current cap is not verry good

Originally Posted by daiviet

I would also like other companies to take the time and effort to do research on how green gas is propane, instead of just piggy backing off Carl's hard work and effort.

there is no reason to do the reserch....someone did it for them...

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

*** Just playing devil's advocate here, but what's the difference between us buying a competitor's product over our family, and another one of our family selling the competitor's product?

hehe good 1

Originally Posted by fi3re

PROPANE STINKS THOUGH. does anyone know a brand of propane that smells......semi good? i know its for leak detection but,........ i'm using coleman btw... (anyone think green gas smells kinda good? XD)

never smelled greengas but the smell of propane is good times...

[MadMax]

Well, I guess it's about time I said something. Simon (prez of Madbull) and I are on good terms despite his production of a competing product. I appreciate how he went out of his way to go with a design which is less convenient than my current or previous adaptors.

As to the research issue, I find myself frustrated with having to do all the legwork and marketing of the idea that green gas was propane only to find that I will ultimately lose the benefits of my discovery. Some years ago I did some hard work and made a discovery. My patent filing got majorly fubared by PuroLater (never use Purolator) so I lost my priority.

I fought a long and hard slog through sometimes vituperative messages from those who absolutely refused to believe me because I stood to profit from my work. Now that the US Department of Transportation (USDOT) has banned most imported brands of GG because it's a flammable gas stored in unproven containers, many Chinese companies have picked up their calipers and have shipped piles of my copied works here. I didn't get any retractions of defamatory comments from those who went after me so aggressively, so I guess if the USDOT agreed with my findings I must have them in my pocket. In all honesty, things would probably be better for me if the USDOT didn't ban GG so I could have gone on my merry way submarining my product to those who wanted it.

I find myself faced with the fact that I will eventually succumb to a very powerful force that is willing to make small profit margins. In contrast, my own costs are high as I manufacture and assemble my product in Canada so my GunGas kit is one of AI's last gasps in the adaptor market. It's a pretty complete kit, the only one which addresses the lubricant issue and the tank gauge problem, but at some point I have to admit that most users don't maintain their GBBs diligently (so who cares about the lubricant) and I note that few users actually test their propane tanks anymore. Retailers closely watch their margins so if another manufacturer offers a good clone at a great plice I'll lose a customer. I suspect that clone adaptor makers have been going after my reseller list posted on my website.

I might squeeze out one final version, but with the rapidly diminishing margins, I may have to bow out sometime because at some point providing propane adaptors will not be worth the product liabilities associated with making gas fittings for a flammable gas.

My company is within subpoena range of most of it's major market so I take great pains to make my product reasonably safe and anticipate hazards in it's use. My competition enjoys not only an advantage in low manufacturing costs, they're also difficult to prosecute for manufacturing or design flaws. Having to accept liabilities and compete against a low cost competitor is not a winning proposition in the long run.

I have to be positive and look towards a future filled with new PATENTABLE products like grenades. I kickstarted my company with the propane adaptor which financed a few other developments and helped me cut my teeth in this market. The propane adaptor was a good first project that taught me some things about doing business and financed my current product the Tornado Grenade.

In contrast, the grenade has patents pending up the whazoo in multiple countries. AI plans to create, develop, and monopolize an entirely new sector of airsoft weaponry with my grenade patents and if things go well, there are other products in the works (some grenade related, some not).

I appreciate the comments made about my product in this post. Switching to injection moulded plastic is a controversial decision that I was pretty much forced to make. The cost of raw materials of my metal versions has roughly tripled since when I started making them. I haven't raised my prices since I started. When my patent got fubared, I was faced with the reality that I would face competition from CNC machinists in China who had practically free labor and lower material costs because of their buying power (lots of volume). I had to make a leap to something that could compete on some scale so I put together the GunGas kit which hacked $5 from the cost of an adaptor and added in maintenance oil. I designed the duster gas tip to fit onto a broken propane adaptor stub.

When I designed the plastic adaptor, I looked at the failure modes of the previous adaptors. Most of my brass adaptors failed when users dinged the tip which made a bad deformation which prevented any kind of seal. Side impact caused the tips to yield which made tip alignment difficult and when they were pranged back straight they broke off. I did a series of side impact tests with guided weights falling onto probe tips and found that flexible plastic tips somewhat outlasted the metal ones. That's not to say that everyone would see a benifit. I have to play a statistical game in my product development so there will be some users who benifit and some who don't.

I've found that if you really don't want to break your plastic adaptor, try this: intentionally chop off your adaptor probe about 4mm from the base and press on the duster adaptor. If your tank falls over, the base usually doesn't break but the duster extension usually pops off and can be reattached.

If I manage to get a breather, I might revisit the propane adaptor and release a deluxe high strength edition. Some years ago I made a short run of extra strong adaptors. They survived a 4' drop tip down with a full bottle of gas onto concrete. Unfortunately they were too expensive to make, but about a year ago I made a manufacturing improvement which brought costs down a bunch. I still have to do a lot more testing which means time and $$$ which are currently fully comitted to grenade manufacturing, but if the bottom doesn't fall out of my adaptor sales by the time the schrapnel settles down from the grenade manufacturing, I may take a look at the adaptor again.

Thanks to those who supported me to this new era and an extra thanks to those who continue to support me. I started AI as an excuse to design products and found myself having to deal with all the other stuff required to support my design interests. Adaptor sales financed a lot of product development. It doesn't look like it because my offerings have been so meagre, but it's only because a lot of my work doesn't get productized because it's too esoteric or just plain crap. I often end a week of "playing" and slap my head and ask: "What was I thinking!?"

It's been fun, and I continue to keep working...

[ownzyouall]

As long as you press gently on the AI there shouldn't be a problem, just be careful not to drop it. The madbull one is metal and is very durable yes, but on the other hand, over time there is a chance your valve may wear out. I'd go with the AI. AI comes with the silicone oil too which is a plus.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

I have both. AI > Madbull in terms of function.

The down side is the tip on AI breaks ridiculously easy if the propane can is dropped or the tip is bumped. I'm on my 3rd AI one in less than a year. Madbull are more durable, but I find they don't seal as well and spray propane a lot more on some mags (like TM). However, they're extremely durable.

So stop dropping the damn propane can! :P

I'm on the same propane adapter I started with three years ago. Its a V.2 if I remember right, and it works like a charm still. I never ran into the issue where people had been saying that they had to reshape the tip or any of those issues. That said, I'm weary of their new plastic versions. I am afraid that they'll break when pushing down on it, and yes I realize that I am comparing it to a brass version. But I do like that now when you purchase a propane adapter you are getting a duster gas adapter as well ((in form as a replacement nozzle)).

And even after all that, AI = Canadian so RESPECTFULLY "to hell with Madbull" .

[Crunchmeister]

Regardless how things go Carl, you're still the man. You're the one that blew the lid off the GG / propane thing and airsofters worldwide are benefitting from this and owe you a debt of gratitude. It's why I've bought 3 of your adapters already despite the 2 first ones breaking. It's unfortunate that the Chinese cloners are also benefitting from your work without no compensation to you. But in the long run, your work and subsequent products revolutionized things, made a name for you, and financed new developments, making a name for AI in the international airsoft marketplace.

You may have lost your patent opportunities for the adapter tip, but despite you having difficulties competing with the Chinese cloners, you did reap a lot of benefits from your work. You've developed a solid reputation, credibility, professionalism, and have put AI on the map for innovative airsoft solutions. In the long run, those benefits will probably be more valuable to you and your company than the meager profit margins from your propane adapters. It's unfortunate that production costs are so high here in Canada, and trying to fight the Chinese cloners (either legally or in production costs ) is a losing battle that's become a somber reality in our global marketplace.

I look forward to seeing what you have coming up next. If your new concepts are anywhere near as ingenious as your past products, I'm sure whatever you release will be a smashing success. And if you ever do release the deluxe, high-strength metal version of the adapter, I can promise you that I'll be here with money in hand to buy one. In the meantime, I will try your equally ingenious idea of cutting the main adapter stem and using the duster adapter. To me, that sounds like a very good solution to prevent any breakage. It would solve the falling problem, and ensure that the splitting I encountered with my second adapter will never happen again.

[safx]

The new AI adaptor is exactly what
I need to keep my expensive mags
in good condition, long-term.

I don't care if I have to buy a new AI
plastic adaptor every few years to keep
my collector pieces from getting worn
from metal on metal contact.

Keep up the good work, & the good fight.

PS: you wanna make shit loads of cash?
Start CNC'ing aluminum frames and slides
for Western Arms 1911's

[EN SABAH NUR]

Buy Canadian. Support small businesses. Buy AI

[DarkAngel]

Carl, i bought ur V2 adaptor (or maybe v3, the one with the brass center) 1-2 years ago and im very sorry to say that i lost it at a recent game. Im in the market to buy a new one obviously but im a little skeptical about the plastic ones. Quite frankly, i really dont want to buy a madbull one, as i loved your older metal versions. Will your new deluxe version be metal again? or will they be plastic like your current versions? If not, would you be willing to make the metal ones again. Im sure alot of us here wouldnt mind paying more $ to get a high quality metal adaptor that lasts longer. For me, replacing an intake valve every once in a while is cheaper than replacing the adaptor, and it was good to know when i had my adaptor before that it was a product that i could count on and last. Im not really sold on "Disposable" plastic adaptors, its just another consumable expense. Id rather have something that can theoretically last a lifetime.

My 2 cents, im sure many of you have your own opinions as well, but this is mine.