Airoft sniper test

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

I'll avoid fleshy area's best I can and always aim low when my targets with in 40 feet.

and then there are other times where people will not stop shooting, no matter how many times you yell you're hit and they are only 40 feet from you!

I experienced both those things this weekend in Petawawa.

I wasn't sniping, but I was using my CA M15 rifle / Elcan scope that shoots in the 380-390 range with .2s (I was using .28s). All 4 of my kills were all 40-50 foot ranges, and each time, all I could see through the brush was the target's head. I would aim a bit lower, even though I couldn't see their body, and open up. Each time I scored a hit. To me, it's just common sense that you make at least some effort to avoid shooting people in the face, neck, etc. Hitting someone in those areas is inevitable and will happen sometimes, but at least an effort should be make not NOT aim for the head.

As for the second point, I was on the receiving end of that too. I called my hit 3 times in about as many seconds before the dude stopped hosing me down. And I think he only stopped once he emptied his mag, because I saw him reload as he was running off. Was that really necessary?

[Drache]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

As for the second point, I was on the receiving end of that too. I called my hit 3 times in about as many seconds before the dude stopped hosing me down. And I think he only stopped once he emptied his mag, because I saw him reload as he was running off. Was that really necessary?

This seems to happen with allot of newer players sadly to the point you have to scream at them to stop firing and even then they dont.

[hattrick]

Originally Posted by Sha Do

With that being said, it was the senior airsoft community that decided that we should have a uniform guideline for snipers to follow. Upon completion, they have one year to remain clean before they can "upgrade". If one of the snipers injures someone they are to be reported, and will be publically striped of they certification for one year. This way, a level 3 certified sniper who has invested two years to qualify, goes back to a stock level for a year, and must re quallify each year for the next two years to get back to level 3. But this only works if the community enforces the banned to stock BA limit on that player. It is up to the community as a whole.

Now enough of my ramble...
SHA DO

Alright, lets begin by saying I* do not go to games on a regular basis nor do i have any experience with airsoft ballistics. I do agree with most of your ideals......except the part i quoted....


Accidents happen, you can hit somone in the leg and injure them with a hot weapon. For somone to be stripped of using a gun they are (in this hypethotical case) qualified to use as a result of an injury seems silly to me. Especially if they are 3 years without problems.

On a side note.....cnd_stalker where are you.....

[Drache]

Originally Posted by hattrick

Alright, lets begin by saying I* do not go to games on a regular basis nor do i have any experience with airsoft ballistics. I do agree with most of your ideals......except the part i quoted....


Accidents happen, you can hit somone in the leg and injure them with a hot weapon. For somone to be stripped of using a gun they are (in this hypethotical case) qualified to use as a result of an injury seems silly to me. Especially if they are 3 years without problems.

On a side note.....cnd_stalker where are you.....

+1

I dont think its right to publicaly "take someones own gun away from them" especially because of an injury. Hell I was injured with a stock gun, does that mean the guy who shot me gets told that the AEG he spent years saving up he now cannot use and must drop back to a springer?

Im sorry but personally on our field you play responsible or you get your ass kicked off the field. Accidents can happen! Yes we try to discourage new players from the 450fps guns and they have always agreed. We have never had a problem to date with the way we run things.

I dont like the thought of publicaly humiliating someone of they make a mistake....

[Endymion]

Being permitted to run an extremely hot gun (0.36g @ 450fps = 0.20g @ 600fps) is a privilege, not a right. You are being entrusted to keep other players' safety in mind at all times, which means maintaining your MED or else *ensuring* that your shot will hit a well padded area. If an accident occurs where you have actually injured somebody (to some, this may be a minor bleeder... to others, perhaps more) and that person complains, then you are at fault. Why shouldn't your privilege be removed? Safety should be everybody's primary concern at games. You can't mention snipers keeping MED while saying "accidents happen, oops" in the same breath.

[Drache]

Originally Posted by Endymion

Being permitted to run an extremely hot gun (0.36g @ 450fps = 0.20g @ 600fps) is a privilege, not a right. You are being entrusted to keep other players' safety in mind at all times, which means maintaining your MED or else *ensuring* that your shot will hit a well padded area. If an accident occurs where you have actually injured somebody (to some, this may be a minor bleeder... to others, perhaps more) and that person complains, then you are at fault. Why shouldn't your privilege be removed? Safety should be everybody's primary concern at games. You can't mention snipers keeping MED while saying "accidents happen, oops" in the same breath.

and yet if the wind blew your BB off course and hit someone in the face or knocked out a tooth and told you couldn't bring your only gun to the game anymore then you would complains just like anyone else.

and please don't use that "another gun" excuse, not everyone can afford to have more than one gun....

[Ronan]

.20 at 600fps? Thats not allowed at games here...

I can understand 500fps for a 'pro' sniper but 600 thats pushing it when everyone else is limited at 400fps.

[Drache]

And dont take me wrong, a 400fps gun IS a privilege but we've never had a problem and there are more "hot guns" than stock guns on our fields. But if you can't take one small accident you shouldn't be playing airsoft. Go play tag or something....

The people who can't take accidents are the ones who fall onto a sharp stick while playing and look for someone to blame....

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by Drache

and yet if the wind blew your BB off course and hit someone in the face or knocked out a tooth and told you couldn't bring your only gun to the game anymore then you would complains just like anyone else.

and please don't use that "another gun" excuse, not everyone can afford to have more than one gun....

Exactly, and the two problems I have with this whole REQUIRING certification to be allowed to upgrade your guns and so one are:

1. Not every field is going to follow this, I've already gotten consent from Stalker that I should be rated for 500fps guns, however at the local field they don't allow ANYONE over 450fps and that's fair.

2. Where does it end? How long before you require cert. for 400 fps AEGs? That can have insane ROF that pummels the shit out of its target? How long before cert. required to upgrade your guns at all? How long before you need cert. to use a PTW to ensure that you're not the kind of guy to swap out mags?! Oh dear lord don't mention the PTW's :P.


And the problem I have with where this thread focuses on the MED, why is it only snipers being targeted with this term? 400fps w/ .20's using .42's can do some serious damage, shall we start limiting those too? And who is going to start getting the digital weighing scales out to positively identify the weights on these BB's? Are chrony lines not long enough as is?!

[Drache]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Exactly, and the two problems I have with this whole REQUIRING certification to be allowed to upgrade your guns and so one are:

1. Not every field is going to follow this, I've already gotten consent from Stalker that I should be rated for 500fps guns, however at the local field they don't allow ANYONE over 450fps and that's fair.

2. Where does it end? How long before you require cert. for 400 fps AEGs? That can have insane ROF that pummels the shit out of its target? How long before cert. required to upgrade your guns at all? How long before you need cert. to use a PTW to ensure that you're not the kind of guy to swap out mags?! Oh dear lord don't mention the PTW's :P.


And the problem I have with where this thread focuses on the MED, why is it only snipers being targeted with this term? 400fps w/ .20's using .42's can do some serious damage, shall we start limiting those too? And who is going to start getting the digital weighing scales out to positively identify the weights on these BB's? Are chrony lines not long enough as is?!

Ive already explained that the GUN does not matter for our MED it's the FPS....

Hell Ive heard of CQB games where the minimum FPS is 400!

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

How long before you need cert. to use a PTW to ensure that you're not the kind of guy to swap out mags?! Oh dear lord don't mention the PTW's :P.

You mean cylinders.

I see what you mean, where does it end?

[Endymion]

Originally Posted by Drache

and yet if the wind blew your BB off course and hit someone in the face or knocked out a tooth and told you couldn't bring your only gun to the game anymore then you would complains just like anyone else.

and please don't use that "another gun" excuse, not everyone can afford to have more than one gun....

If you can afford to make the necessary mods to run a gun at 600fps consistently with any sort of longevity, you can afford another gun. Those sorts of mods don't come cheap, and neither do the rifles.

And no, I wouldn't complain. I understand what it means to ensure safety is taken into consideration. I also understand what it means to injure another player, as it happened during one of my first few outdoor games. It was a n00b accident that could have been prevented had I been paying more attention to my surroundings. Sure, the dead player crossed my sight path directly in front of me while I was focused on shooting at a player downrange. It was an accident. But it was my finger on the trigger, and solely my responsibility.

I was ready to pack it up and downgrade or sell my AEG right there. Thankfully the other player only suffered bleeders and no broken teeth. I'll thank you not to make assumptions about what I would or would not do in any given situation, given that you're four provinces over and have never played a game with me.

[Drache]

Originally Posted by Endymion

If you can afford to make the necessary mods to run a gun at 600fps consistently with any sort of longevity, you can afford another gun. Those sorts of mods don't come cheap, and neither do the rifles.

And no, I wouldn't complain. I understand what it means to ensure safety is taken into consideration. I also understand what it means to injure another player, as it happened during one of my first few outdoor games. It was a n00b accident that could have been prevented had I been paying more attention to my surroundings. Sure, the dead player crossed my sight path directly in front of me while I was focused on shooting at a player downrange. It was an accident But it was my finger on the trigger, and solely my responsibility.

I was ready to pack it up and downgrade or sell my AEG right there. Thankfully the other player only suffered bleeders and no broken teeth. I'll thank you not to make assumptions about what I would or would not do in any given situation, given that you're four provinces over and have never played a game with me.

wow ok so we are going to let god enter the mix now... you're saying that it's a players fault if the WIND takes a BB and moves it? Now you're saying that a player should be punished for what god does?

And we aren't talking about 600fps guns, we are talking about 400fps guns. No one in BC allowed 600fps from what I know. The max all fields Ive played on are 500fps which is only gas sniper rifles and the MED is 100 feet.

Accidents happen and if you tried raising a stink over a simple accident and requested the member be removed from the game I'd toss you off our field. I got shot in the eye when my goggles came off my face, you saying I can blame the shooter when the BB's were already in the air when my goggles came off?

Sorry but you seem like the person who would trip and get poked by a sharp stick on the ground and then try to sue whomever was running the game.

And what happens if someone BUYS a gun already running 400fps? Think JG or a used weapon. Maybe they spent all their money just buying that gun and their gear?

[tsuru]

One thing that I never hear mentioned when people from different provinces start talking about different MED's and FPS caps is terrain. Here in Manitoba (read: flat terrain with thick woods) the idea of increasing the FPS cap has been discussed a few times but because of the conditions here it's really not worth it. The incredibly rare opportunities where a higher FPS gun would be of benefit simply do not outweigh the increased safety hazards and field administration that would come with increasing the limits. It's probably the reason that there are only a handful of snipers (and definitely not sniper by Stalker's definition) in the whole province.

To return to the original question:
As the original poster mentioned, trust is paramount. One of the local legendary snipers that has since retired from airsoft always maintained that playing with a lower powered gun will make you a better sniper in the long run. I happen to agree with this philosophy completely. Sniping requires patience and stamina. If you're using a lower powered gun it forces you to become better at wood craft. It forces you to compensate for wind and terrain more. The list goes on.
Point is: If you can prove that you can cut it with a lower powered gun for a season, not only will you be a better player, you'll also have proven yourself a trust-worthy player that is truly capable of wielding a high-power weapon.
My 2 cents.

[ThunderCactus]

There's really nothing you can do about this, all you can do if someone is a bad sniper is ask them to reduce the FPS, ask them to change guns, or worst case scenario (like they just wanna hurt people) is ban them from the field.

Often the wind does take your BB off it's path, and sudden gusts of wind do come out of nowhere. But it has happened that a sniper shot at me and I crouched at the last second and caught it in the ear. He apologized after and that was that.
Sometimes the persons head is all you have to shoot at. Personally I like to be damn far away if I have to hit someone in the face, and I certainly don't enjoy it.
And it's important to mention some stock chinese clone sniper rifles shoot MORE than 470fps out of the box.