TRADE ISSUE - BCAC J-AIR

[Goldman]

Bit slow to reply here, while typing my last a number of posts were made.

Big Matty:

The parts are listed, but still on the M4. After discussing this issue with Gump, our local Armalite Gun tech, and scarecrow the gun was put in its case and left there, and I haven't actively been selling the M203 at this time. It is still attached to the M4. Once J-Air told me not to expect any money from him to fix the M4, I looked for ways to do it within my budget and posted the M203. I decided to go public with this because of the treatment and overall tone of the deal.

[Bunny]

Well, I did talk to him. He's not going to do the asc circus, he wants to deal with Goldman. You aren't going to hear from him here.

The bottom line here is that what Goldman says and what Jair says are two different things. When you say

That does not negate that fact that Goldman found otherwise.

That is as much hearsay as anything else in this thread. You accept it as fact, I accept it as BS.

I understand you know Goldman and so you are inclined to think what he says is true, but I am in the same boat on the other side. Fair enough. I don't know what you are going to do on your end that will change the bottom line mentioned above.

You say leave it for Jair to address. How about we both leave it for the two of them to address?

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Bunny

He's not going to do the asc circus, he wants to deal with Goldman. You aren't going to hear from him here.

I see. So your reply on his behalf, as a third party with information that he doesn't want to publically characterize as correct or incorrect? Regardless of the asc circus, if he feels he's been screwed around, I find it odd that he wouldn't take the opportunity to put forth his side. It makes me wonder about the veracity of your claims when he isn't willing to come forth, and the thread over in BCAC was effectively moved from public view.

I'm just voicing what is being thought of over here. We're being assured that J-Air is reputable and is above this sort of thing and that its all Goldman's fault, but, he isn't willing to come over here and tell us why, and we're supposed to just accept that?

I'll leave it at that and wait to hear from Goldman regarding further communications from J-Air on this as well as go ahead with our inspection and this end as well as photographing the item appropriately. People will just have to formulate their opinion on this from one viewpoint. Thats unfortunate but perhaps Goldman has said all that needs to be said about it then.

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by Bunny

You say leave it for Jair to address. How about we both leave it for the two of them to address?

The posts in this thread seem to indicate to me that Goldman already tried that, and promptly got told to go fuck himself in the ear. Hence the creation of this thread - to resolve a problem that went nowhere in PM's. Perhaps there was something I missed, where the Jair offered to A) replace said broken part(s) or B) return the gun to Goldman and get his gun back if he was dissatisfied?

Originally Posted by Bunny

Well, I did talk to him. He's not going to do the asc circus, he wants to deal with Goldman. You aren't going to hear from him here.

Man, if I was having my name dragged through the mud for all the wrong reasons, I'd be in here ASAP getting shit cleared up in person, not having buddies/teammates speaking for me where it looks like I'm trying to duck the issue.....perhaps it would be wise for you to advise him of the further damage he's causing to his reputation by keeping his silence.

[Hedonism Bot]

For the record if anyone ever screws me the way this poor guy was duped I wont take it up on ASC. I'll show up at your front door and we will take care of it man-to-man (non-violently)

As a third party who has absolutley nothing to do with this situation I know my input is totally useless in the situation at hand but it was posted in a public thread so giving my two-cents is my right.

It really sounds like some guy wanted to unload his FUBAR'd gun and did what SO MANY of the people in the classifieds do, lied about it's condition and hoped no one would call him on it. No matter what other factors were involved on the trade selling a gun like this through ASC WITHOUT disclosing the guns issues is inexcusible. Listing the gun as being in good condition is just plain fruadulant.

I know there are at least 3 sides to every issue but the fact that the for sale post apparently made ZERO mention of the gun's issues, the fact that the seller in question refuses to show up and defend himself, and the fact that he has stated plainly his refusal to make the situation right speaks volumes to his culpability in this.


I hope it gets resolved to everyones satisfaction. It all could have been avoided if people would be a bit less forgiving of their own gear when it comes time to sell it.

Hell I've seen people throw the word 'MINT' around like it was nothing on the classifieds.


GOOD LUCK

[Bunny]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

and the thread over in BCAC was effectively moved from public view.

Much like the for sale thread where Goldman was trying to part out J-Air's gun.

[Bunny]

Originally Posted by Skruface

The posts in this thread seem to indicate to me that Goldman already tried that, and promptly got told to go fuck himself in the ear. Hence the creation of this thread - to resolve a problem that went nowhere in PM's. Perhaps there was something I missed, where the Jair offered to A) replace said broken part(s) or B) return the gun to Goldman and get his gun back if he was dissatisfied?

Without seeing both sides of the conversation, who knows what actually transpired. You'd have to see *all* the complete pm's from both parties to have any kind of opinion -and if honesty is in question, will we ever even get that? As to what was broken/not broken, simply one word against another.

[Lisa]

Locking due to the fact that J-Air won't post here and it's pretty much turning into a flame war between east end west.

[Lisa]

Unlocked. J-Air (aka Pvt Joker) has requested that the thread be unlocked so he can say his side. Please if you are NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIR PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE. Warnings will be issued to those that do.

[PVT.JOKER]

First off,this had been the worst transaction in my life.Anybody who knows me ,or has dealt with me over the 4 years I have been in the airsoft community knows this is not what I am about.Having sold/traded about 15-20 guns over this time(some upgraded,some not ) -there has always been a happy transaction.

To say that I would ship a broken gun-is complete and total crap!! .I chrono'd it as I was boxing it up,and it shot around 380.I owned that gun the longest of any guns,and it recieved great amount attention.As well there is nothing misleading in my ad-I was even going to the trouble to set up a test shoot for anybody .(Kinda hard to do with a gun with no nozzle).If a gun had no nozzle it wouldn't shoot.The nozzle brings the bb up into the hop-up chamber,holds it there-then fires.



While boxing it up-I noticed that the mount on the G&P lam was broken(they all break here)-I offered my ICS one that I had sitting on my shelf .This one was in good condition.It was never over tightened--If it was broken--I would have offered some kind of compensation-as I have alot of spare gun parts.Not any more LAM units though.


The box I shipped it in was the box the Maruzen L96.This was the only one I had that would fit everything.I even ripped all the foam padding out of another gun case,and used it for padding.Taped the living shit out of it,and sent it off because of his constant nagging to have it before the weekend.After I sent him the tracking number-Nothing!!...didn't hear a word from him for a while.When I suspected a scam-he finally replied days later.He still didn't have any tracking number for me-strange? .When my gun arrived in T.O-he stated that he was going to ship it later that day--TOTAL CRAP!...He said that it was at his parents house-ANY HE HAD FORGOT,BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE THE M14 IN HIS POSSESION.At this time he finally gave me tracking number,and stated" I just paid $60 to send this damn thing to you!"---HAD HE SHIPPED IT WHEN HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO-HE WOULD HAVE ALREADY KNOWN THE SHIPPING.Plus,after my asking couldn't he have asked his parents(if they were really aware they were supposed to ship it for him the tracking #?!!).


When my gun showed up-->one corner of the box appeared to have been left in some water(the cardboard all fell apart),and the fabric that the gun was wrapped in was hanging out.The cocking lever had torn though the side of the box.When I took it out the lever was extremely wobbly.I found the lever retainer was almost ready to break free.I have since re-threaded the screw,but it still sits in pieces.



To say that he never shot the gun at all-only just opened the metal body to check for cracks-BULLSHIT!....Had he been a straight up guy-no bullshit...I would have sent him some spares.I still have alot of parts from when I used to run SPEC-OPS Airsoft.Another reason I would never sent a broken gun.Why would I?,I have a crap load of verII parts.He has since parted the gun out.


Before the deal went south- I asked for no b.s...he told me that he had a deal go bad on him,and this would not be the case. .This should have been the writing on the wall.I should have said screw it-go pound sand.But alas,here I am with this headache.



He waited for the gun to show up,fucked with it -NOW wants compensation.Very Laugh-able.


This all I will say on this matter.


_________________

[Blastyman]

Knowing J-AIR and have had multiple dealings with him I could never seem him shipping somebody a broken gun.

Like mentioned before he is a respected Western Canada Airsofter,Gun Smith and used to retail as well.

He opened his home to a Bunch of Edmonton airsofters when we headed to BC for a Weekend game. I have utmost respect for J-Air and couldn't see it in his character to do such BS he is accused of.

I guess I shouldn't really post this cause Goldmans buds will back him and vice Versa for J-AIR and it just ends up a pissing contest between the 3rd party's but I couldn't stand to read this with nobody speaking for J-AIR other then Bunny.

[Armedpacifist]

Originally Posted by Blastyman

I guess I shouldn't really post this cause Goldmans buds will back him and vice Versa for J-AIR and it just ends up a pissing contest between the 3rd party's but I couldn't stand to read this with nobody speaking for J-AIR other then Bunny.

I think it's in everyones best interests to let them solve the problem and for 3rd parties to step in only when requested.

[Sgt_Lynch]

I suggest this gets locked until the involved parties request it opened again if need be.

[Goldman]

J-Air,

Good to finally see a reply from YOU, not a third party. We have discussed this to death, but I feel I still need to hammer home some points.

I still see no pictures of the damage to the M14, nor an explanation for why you did not contact me when the M14 arrived in such a state. Most anyone else here would contact the seller immediately if there was a molested package on their doorstep, as CP claims need to be made promptly, yet you did not inform me of any such problems until I noticed the gaping problems with the M4.

Yes, it is reasonable that I did not get a chance to fire the M4, as I didn't attend a game, where am I to fire it in my parents house? Perhaps take a stroll in their backyard, just off a major street and let some rounds loose? I'm sure that would have ended fantastically.

The LAM unit is broken, and it is not broken in away that would scream shipping error to me. It was broken, as you say it “in the way they all break”, in that the plastic clamp was cracked in half. You have offered no explanation to how this might have occurred, and now refuse to believe there was damage at all.

In regards to shipping, I already made my case. I asked my parents, who were in possession of the M14 to ship it, I was assured it would be. Later when I asked about a tracking number from them so I could PM it to you, they stated they had not yet shipped it. Given I was going to their place late Thursday evening, I elected to ship it myself on the Friday. Also if I am not mistaken, I took me roughly a day and a half to reply. Like you, I too have a life, school etc., which precluded you from replying to other Pms I sent you in a timely manner, how would you expect me to?

Also, you keep making a deal about how if I had shipped the M14 i would have known how much it costs. I don't understand what your trying to argue here. I've already admitted on several occasions the M14 was shipped late. What are you trying to get at?

Also, as previously stated, I cannot have AEGs, GBBs, Paintball guns, or Real Steel at my current residence, its a term of my renting here. As I already said in this post, it would preclude me from testing a new AEG arrival for shooting until I can either get it to a game, or someone's home who has a decent area to try it. Upon receiving the AEG, I dry-fired it, simply to see if it cycled. For the very reasons you say you wouldn't screw me, I trusted you. However once I was able to open the mechbox and take a look, I found problems.

Let me ask you this, if I was out to screw you over this deal, why would I be making such a fuss over the nozzle? If this were simply an attempt to bleed you of money fore replacement parts, why would I not have simply said something to the effect of “the MB is making a grinding noise”. I wouldn't choose a $10 part, as there is no point in going to this much trouble to get it from you.

You mention years of transactions without problems. I too have been making transactions since 2001, and the only trouble I've had are from other people (IE: their AEGs not showing up at all, showing up BROKEN, such as this case, etc.).

Also you state, “Had he been a straight up guy-no bullshit...I would have sent him some spares. “. Where have I bullshitted you? As soon as I noticed ANY problem I Pm'ed you. If anyone is bullshitting here, I would say it is you. As the problem with the M14, only was reported AFTER I reported the problems with the M4 to you. You claim this was a painful deal for you, however I hardly see how that is. You were able to get a fully functioning, barely used M14, and mags, which at the moment is a relatively hard AEG to get, and in return, I get a hodgepodge of parts that was put into an AEG, that I can't even use.

This “headache” as you call it, is easily resolved by you simply owning up to the fact that you sent a broken AEG out, and do the right thing, by offering to either send replacement parts, or agree to cover part of the repair cost. This is ALL I've ever asked of you in this transaction, yet your absolutely against it. It makes me wonder why you were so eager to take a deal that you now say was so bad for you, yet now I suppose that reason is clear.

Mike

PS - You keep calling me a child during this whole thing, yet your the only one who keeps up directly insulting me, like this post from BCAC.

this thread will go away,in a week's time.For 1 reason only-the child that started this thread has alot of growing up.Airing of dirty laundry has no place in the forum.

http://www.bcairsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4457

[Goldman]

At the time of writing this, it is roughly 6pm EST, on the 4th of February. At this point it would appear that J-Air does not intend to make the situation right. At this point I'm just going to make good on a previous comment, to make lemonade out of the lemon I was given. I will be making for sale posts shortly listing the parts I have for sale, in an attempt to salvage something at least from this all.

We have not yet seen any pictures of the damaged M14, nor have I had any further communication from J-Air, and to me, this means that your saying that I was right, there is NO damage to the M14, and your just too damned much of a coward to admit it. You hide behind the statement that you don't want to take part in the ASC circus. Yet the only public thread on BCAC regarding this was locked, by you. You also make claims on BCAC about ASC being communist or some totalitarian regime, yet you, yourself, have locked and made locked posts regarding this issue on BCAC. While this hypocrisy may seem off topic, I think it speaks volumes about what kind of person you are. You refuse to own up to the truth, and only defend yourself in a medium that you have total control over.

Needless to say, you can say goodbye to any further business you may have had with me, and as for the other members of BCAC, while I do not wish to throw the baby out with the bath water, as scarecrow so susinctly put it, there are some among you who I will not wish to deal with, namely Bunny, for reasons that I think are fairly obvious.

I would also ask that certain Admins/Mods who have a more personal connection with this event, and the parties involved recuse themselves from further action in this thread. Namely “Archiving” this thread without telling anyone, and forcing me to track down another mod to have the thread re-instated. This type of action is childish, and in my eyes, and admission of guilt on behalf of J-Air. Since it would appear that one of this friends abused their power, trying to make this thread disappear once already. While I don't have any direct proof of this... Well I am able to put 1 and 1 together.