See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

[Gridlock]

I honestly don't see how it's a pain in the ass. I suppose it's my location, and a big bit of luck, but I met an AVer, got my info sent in, and was AVed the next day. I know that's unusual, but still. It took no time at all and I really appreciated that he set time aside to meet me, time it seemed he had planned for something else.

[HGI]

This thread is a dead end, you guys are talking like making it harder to get a airsoft gun than it is to get real steal.

Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney

So the easiest way with new ASC members going forward, in order to get Age Verified, they must attend a course, past several written and practical examinations, and if required a probationary period.

Think about this for a second.... So in order for this EVERYONE on these boards would have their AV status removed and someone would have to be the "Canada's God of Airsoft" who is above every other person in Canada in order to plan this course and write this holy written test you speak of. Heck I don't know if your one of these noobs that everyone speaks of so you better dress up in this un-issued military prom dress, empty your wallet and jump threw hoops just to prove yourself worthy.

Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney

I am just wanting responsible ownership

Fair enough, but at the age of 18 your responsible for your own actions and what not, punishable by law.
Kids at 16 can do more damage driving a car than a kid with a toy bb gun,
A group of young adults can do more damage to Canada by voting with out even looking into who their voting for than a group of fuck tards with clear guns playing in a park.

Originally Posted by pusangani

Pain in the ass eh, what about the volunteer verifiers that take time out to help lazy people like you gain access to the guns, it's not a pain in the ass for them or is your time more valuable?

Hey pusangani, welcome to ASC, I know your somewhat new around here but a lot of people will be able to let you know how a few years ago it could take upto 3 to 6 month for a new member to get their AV status due to inactive verifiers in some areas of Canada.

[Mr.Shiney]

HGI, you do love to rant, but little intelligent comes out.

If you actually read what I posted was GOING FORWARD the AV process would Change. As for a course, it would be easy to coble something together over a couple of weeknights. Just mirror the PAL safety course. As for running it, it would take about 4 hours.

Now in order to implement this, we would as a community need to develop a common standard. Brian, and I am sure others in other local areas already have some courses running.

First of the course would be of little to no cost.

I take safety very seriously. I even make sure to bring a fully stocked first aid kit onto the field.

If you actually have a PAL card, you will know that it is much more difficult to get real steel. Just applying and taking the course does not mean you will actually be granted a PAL card. Considering the reference and background checks.

A kid with a car, cannot damage our sport. A kid or adult with a toy bb gun can.

As for voting, that made even less sense than the kid with car comment.

Just think of it this way, would you rather have new players given the chance before a game to learn the rules, procedures and best practices in an organized format.

OR

Would you rather bitch, whine and moan about that fucking noob over there.

[HGI]

Umm.... PAL card acutally isn't to hard to get unless your a complete reckless person. This is real weapons we're talking about not toy bb guns that can't kill someone in one shot.
Heck even people under the age of 18 can get a license just by challenge the exam and your telling getting a real gun is hard to get your hands on?

[Mr.Shiney]

TAD DA - a reckless person - that is all we are attempting to avoid.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Donster]

i really dont see the problem with clear guns such as G&G and ICS. its the crappier broxa and kraken stuff that i really hate. those, to me, are more of a problem than the tinted stuff.

[Reckless]

if people are deamed elitist for wanting to own and talk about purely the all black guns, that's fine let them. given the choice I look for an all black "old school" gun first myself.

but yes I own a clear gun ... my friend has one of those clear crossman AKsu's that we painted. does he know it's 'crap'? yup... he got it to get onto the field he's saving his money and just running the gun till it dies.

I may be a newb too airsoft... but I'm definately not a newb to expensive 'toy' hobbies.. from Auto racing (rally, drag, autox) to Radio control (partial to boats). and in every single hobby I run into the exact same thing I'm seeing here... if you wish to be elitist.. oldschool... snobby.. whatever you wish to call it.. so be it.

hell right now I'm looking at a "crap" clear gun... why? cause it gives me a cheap body to gut and build up. yes I want to collect, I want a nice display of replicas to fondle in the basement after work ... but I also want to have FUN ... the POINT of these hobbies .. to have FUN. currently I play OUTDOORS with a shotgun and an AEP glock.. and I have a BLAST. yes I'm working on building an AEG but I still wanna get out in the meantime and PLAY.

now on the other point brought up... the players themselves, but if they can't get out to play (rentals aren't always available... ) how can you know of they are actually able to play or not.

I guess the point of my pointless ramble... is I agree.. but I disagree at the same time.

[HGI]

Well how do I know your not a reckless person? You and everyone would have to do the hoop jumping and they'd have to do it pretty fast cause a lot more members would just end up setting up another board and do their selling there.

Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney

Would you rather bitch, whine and moan about that fucking noob over there.

To add if a admin/field owner/game host doesn't kick a reckless person off the field then there's something far more wrong than getting everyone to join the military for 4 hours before they can play a game.

I've seen a lot people kicked off a field or asked not to be there ext ext, it happens all the time.

[IceTray]

Originally Posted by HGI

Well how do I know your not a reckless person? You and everyone would have to do the hoop jumping and they'd have to do it pretty fast cause a lot more members would just end up setting up another board and do their selling there.

To add if a admin/field owner/game host doesn't kick a reckless person off the field then there's something far more wrong than getting everyone to join the military for 4 hours before they can play a game.

I've seen a lot people kicked off a field or asked not to be there ext ext, it happens all the time.

So they get kicked off the field and go piss off other players elswhere? Great, now everyones pissed, because your solution is just kick them, instead of validating them before letting them on the field to begin with. The point isn't to just basically say "hey, go away." It's to do more than that, to stop these people from being able to be kicked from a game in the first place.

I'll jump through the damn "hoops" as you call it.
Validating users is fine. Age verification isn't cutting the crap anymore, so yea - they must attend a course, pass several written and practical examinations, and if required a probationary period. <- Agreed.

[HGI]

Originally Posted by IceTray

So they get kicked off the field and go piss off other players elswhere? Great, now everyones pissed, because your solution is just kick them, instead of validating them before letting them on the field to begin with. The point isn't to just basically say "hey, go away." It's to do more than that, to stop these people from being able to be kicked from a game in the first place.

So they don't make it on your field cause they were retarded, think they're going to give up there? They'll just go piss off other people, probably at a park like the lazy ones who look at the requirements (written, practical) and say fuck that me and my buddies will just take our clearsoft to the park.

You guys are great at coming up with ideas but your not even bothering to have a look at your idea from a different angle.

[Mr.Shiney]

If they are dumb enough to play in the park in public with Crap Soft, Clear Soft, Can Soft or Dark Soft.

Well then we do not need, want nor desire them on the field.

If you choose to commit a crime such as that an you had already been AV'd I am sure your AV'd status would be yanked and your account would be suspended or banned here on ASC.

We are looking if I understand correctly building a stronger community. Building a responsible community that mentors, develops and regulates itself in a more formal manner.

Just look to NY State, or the UK.

So what are your actual ideas on the matter. What would you do or not do to ensure new players get the appropriate opportunities or training?

[HGI]

Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney

If they are dumb enough to play in the park in public with Crap Soft,
Well then we do not need, want nor desire them on the field.

Maybe, but what if they went into the park because they didn't want to jump your hoops to get on your field? If they make it to the field then they have a chance to improve and actually learn.

Find me a link to where it says playing in public parks with clear soft is a criminal offense in canada, cause believe it or not... it isn't.

[mcguyver]

There's a ton of bickering back and forth about this and that in this thread. The answer is so simple and everyone keeps beating around the bush:

Stop selling clear guns, let everyone go out an pay $1000 to buy guns and gear just to get into this hobby.

Why hasn't anyone brought this up already. I mean, c'mon guys.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by HGI

Maybe, but what if they went into the park because they didn't want to jump your hoops to get on your field? If they make it to the field then they have a chance to improve and actually learn.

Find me a link to where it says playing in public parks with clear soft is a criminal offense in canada, cause believe it or not... it isn't.

A park is a public place: It's just as illegal to shoot your buddies up with clearsoft in a public place as it is to shoot your buddies with a paintball gun in the same park.

[mcguyver]

"Brandishing a weapon dangerous to the peace" is what thie kids around here get nailed with. It would have also been "discharge of an airgun within city limits" if they had actually fired it.