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January 25th, 2009, 16:31
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#16 |
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stock WE I believe.....
the4thpower, I think you can post your finding of that little experienment you are running now here as well, maybe in the upgrade forum. There are a decent group of airsoft IPSC shooting folks here that might be interested as well... |
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January 25th, 2009, 22:45
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#17 | ||
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GBB Whisperer
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Quote:
Here's an older gallery: http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsoft/illusions_armoury I have at least 5 other pistols that I haven't photographed yet, as well as several in production with ProG4 right now. Some of my club members think I have a bit of an airsoft problem... I think I'm starting to agree... All of the barrels are 304 steel as quoted to me by Captain KK and as listed on the web site. This is for both the barrels already in production, as well as custom barrels that they quote me on. I always wondered why they used 304 over 303, at least from the machining standpoint. But if they can do 304, I'm not complaining. Makes for a slightly harder product.  Last time I asked Captain KK about the thumb levers and grip safety, he said R&D needed to be done in order to manufacture them. So far, I've been settling with Nova's products, but supply is low on them at Redwolf now... and I need more shiny silver parts! I typically do wholesale orders from ProG4 and finance large production runs, so getting them to start a production run on an item that's already G-coded isn't a problem. But if R&D is required, I generally have to order double the minimum order quantity in order to get Captain KK's machinist to consider it to be worthwhile - especially for items like thumb levers and grip safeties, which have low profit margins. Captain KK is the sales/marketing manager. There are three departments to ProG4. Sales/marketing, the machine shop, and R&D. The actual machining is done by another gentleman. Quote:
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 Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed Last edited by ILLusion; January 25th, 2009 at 23:58.. |
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January 25th, 2009, 23:41
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#18 | |
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A-56 aka Mr.Hitman
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Quote:
It's Chinese New Years, you're old enough to share some stuff with meeee! You loser. Sharing is caring. 
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January 31st, 2009, 23:50
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#19 |
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ILLusion -
I'm honestly still in the dark as to how things work at ProG4. He has told me a few different things and eludes some of my questioning. He has sent me quite a few pictures..that are the same as the ones that you have on your photogallery. I've questioned him about Raymond Ho and Clarence Lai. Also about Prime, PGC, and MMC...but like I said, he avoids direct answers to those questions. I'm still very interested to know what's going on over there.... but I guess I'll have to suffice with him building me custom guns and not worrying about it. Any how...on his website he list a few barrels as 303. http://www.prog4.com/db/product-show.asp?refno=AR1424 http://www.prog4.com/db/product-show.asp?refno=AR1352 http://www.prog4.com/db/product-show.asp?refno=AR1390 But I do see where he lists "barrels" as 304. Production vs Custom? Maybe when it comes to threading for a comp it's easier to use 303? ... so I'm confused.
__________________
Props to Captian KK @ http://www.ProG4.com I RUV Hi-CAPA GASUBUROBAKKUGAN http://www.aaps-federation.org/index.html 
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February 1st, 2009, 03:57
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#20 |
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GBB Whisperer
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For business reasons, he will not go in to detail about his relationship with those companies, nor will I. Don't really need to explain it, that's just the way it is. You just have to accept it as a natural fact of his particular business and how he is placed.
Just understand that Captain KK's business is geared primarily towards businesses that can provide larger volume orders to him. Individual custom/one-off orders offer him and his machinist an extremely low profit margin, and they are doing the job/service to you purely on the basis of good will, when the time could be spent machining the 85 hammer sets for another one of his clients, or the 32 slides another one of his clients has ordered. If he is even willing to provide that to you, consider yourself very privileged. Captain KK is a good guy, and he does have a passion for the hobby, but unfortunately, as a business man, money is the primary driving factor. I'm not sure why those particular guns he's built use 303 steel... every single barrel he's built for me, whether they are straight stainless, gold oxidized, compensated, hybrid, bull, or straight, all used 304 stainless. From what I've seen, only their older designs were 303, and all current designs were 304. To be honest with you, my relationship with ProG4 is still young and I've only been working with him for less than 6 months at this point. One thing you need to know about ProG4, all of their products are evolving. Something you purchased from them 3 months ago will NOT be the same as something you bought from them yesterday. They do collaborate with all of their clients and discuss technical issues and find solutions to problems that arise from their builds. I was not suppose to disclose this before with the production of my current custom run of slides but now that all current runs of their slides will have this feature, they've given me permission to advertise that all of their current Marui Hi-Capa production slides are now an "advanced model", that feature an additional lug to take smash impact against the outer barrels when sliding back in to battery. It greatly improves the survivability and lifespan of the slides. This is still a very new feature, and any slides in production from the last 2 months *may* not have this feature yet. They are slowly integrating it in to all production runs. As far as I know, the slide sets I've received in the past month were the first ones to feature this improvement. The R&D began after I had lodged several complaints about this issue of self-destructing slides among several of their models and began discussion on the issue and provided different solutions for the problem. You know how stubborn Captain KK is... at first, he would point the finger at me and blame the fault on my build or certain aspects, but after enough discussion and proofs as well as providing constructive criticism (and some $$$), both Captain KK and his machinist will find the solution.
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Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed Last edited by ILLusion; February 1st, 2009 at 04:04.. |
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February 2nd, 2009, 14:17
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#21 |
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GBB Whisperer
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I had an idea... didn't know if it would work, but on further inspection, it did:
 In the process of converting all my mags now. It looks that nice. Plus the polished finish lets the mag slide in and out that much easier/faster. (Yeah yeah, I'm lazy... never got around to finishing the details on the grip. I'll get to it, eventually...)
__________________
Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed Last edited by ILLusion; February 2nd, 2009 at 14:22.. |
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February 2nd, 2009, 14:25
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#22 |
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Captain Sunshine
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Awwwwwwwwwww SNAP! common, you gotta at least take 1 picture with the shiney shooters design baseplates.
Looks sweet though. |
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February 2nd, 2009, 16:30
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#23 |
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GBB Whisperer
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Just saw your new video on youtube of this gun you've posted pictures of. I love the sound of it, and the recoil is imperceptible. Very nice build.
SlideRacker |
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February 2nd, 2009, 16:49
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#24 |
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A-56 aka Mr.Hitman
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Pup poo, love the sound!
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February 2nd, 2009, 19:57
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#25 |
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can't beat that....wish I can shoot that well....
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February 2nd, 2009, 20:02
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#26 |
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ILLusion!
You beat me to it...I had been contemplating whether or not the 5.1 mag bottom would fit on the 4.3 mag, because I wanted to do the exact same thing with the Dual Stainless mags! I'm glad to see it does work....too bad I sold my 4.3/DS mags a long time ago (hence why I haven't tried the swap). But now I really want to buy some more. $$$$$ About CaptianKK and his business... I know he get his slide blanks, etc and other parts from a supplier....who his supplier is?? That is a different question. And that is what I meant he is elusive about. Raymond Ho and Clarence Lai have all given me the same answer, because they don't want to be cut out as the middleman. I wanted to do what all 3 of them are doing. All the slides & frames (including the one you just posted) that KK sells are not produced by ProG4. He is a gun builder/machinist/gun smith/business man. His heart in business is actually building custom guns, not bulk supplies. Bulk supplies (IE all those slides and frames) help bring in profit from the back end to support his custom builds. Davidson Customs, Airsoft Surgeon, Raymond Ho (Fire) and ProG4 slides, frames and other parts are all produced by the same place. Just like those mag base pads that you and I have...They have been on Raymond Ho's website for more than a year. They have been in production for a long time. They do make other more intricate designs such as all the LimCats, Brazos, SVI, etc slide and compensator sets.....these obviously take more time and production is very limited. The Limcat slide and comp set that Racing Maniac just got (from you, from ProG4, from??) has been around for years! Airsoft Surgeon/Clairence Lai has been doing this for more than 10 years now. When Captian KK built my gun, he took a base design blank then added my deisgn to it. The 6" split slide comp design has been around for a long time. The only differences are serrations, ports, and other cuts. My steel frame is NOT the same design as the ones that are normally sold. These are pieces he colaborates with on a design phase with his supplier. Captian KK is the one who makes it all work and puts it all together. Same deal with Raymond Ho and Clarence Lai. The difference is Captain KK built me my gun for almost half of what I was quoted by the latter two. I've found he is very easy to work with. I'm glad he was willing to eventually hear you out about the problem you were having. I'm interested to know what addititional lug will be added. These are pictures of my Shooters Design slide and my new ProG4 slide. Since you let the cat out of the bag...can you show me where the additional lug will be?    BTW, I think the sound of the gun is different on video and depending on where the mic is facing.
__________________
Props to Captian KK @ http://www.ProG4.com I RUV Hi-CAPA GASUBUROBAKKUGAN http://www.aaps-federation.org/index.html
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February 2nd, 2009, 20:23
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#27 |
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oh, ILLusion...would you mind doing me a favor?
Could you put a stock black (or black SD) mag base pad or your DS4.3/5.1 mag and take a pic of it for me? Or if you have a black ProG4 base pad (I know they anodized them in black, blue and red also).
__________________
Props to Captian KK @ http://www.ProG4.com I RUV Hi-CAPA GASUBUROBAKKUGAN http://www.aaps-federation.org/index.html
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February 2nd, 2009, 20:27
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#28 |
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GBB Whisperer
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Hmm... interesting. The additional lug I referred to is the one located at the top of the photo (on the side of the slide) in the first photo.
Thing is, the lug you have there is designed differently than the ones I have on the run I just received. Granted, the run I received was the second batch after R&D in to the solution, so it's possible he's changed to this new design you have now. It looks similar to this first run design:  The only difference is, that lug is reversed on mine, so that the chamber contacts the flat part rather than the rounded part. My biggest complaint with the ProG4 slides is that lugs 2A and 2B continues to be so thin... I've already smashed through them on all of the slides I've used that do not have that extra lug. I've insisted with Captain KK on numerous occassions to switch to 7075 aluminum as well, but he'd hard headed about that... |
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February 2nd, 2009, 20:29
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#29 | |
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GBB Whisperer
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Quote:
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February 2nd, 2009, 20:29
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#30 |
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Your Capt KK slide looks different from my Limcat as well as my SVI. On my slide where the circled portion, the ProG4 slide has a much lower(thinner) lug, as well as being chamfered. The SD has that square thick lug, and the same with my 1911 slide.
 I know the Limcat design has been around for a while. I just don't wanna really go around to make a custom design. That design fits my requirement, mainly being hybrid(which in itself solves the problem of breaking the lug), and a full profile long comp |
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