Which M4???

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

VFC is certainly not the best bang for your buck, they're more expensive than almost all standard AEG brands. VFC is solid out of the box, great reliability and good realism/quality. If you're having issues come upgrade time then you're the problem and not the gun. VFC is arguably the best variation of the old Marui system. Still a normal AEG, but worth it to get off on the right foot.

Best bang for your buck is the G&G lineup. $200 buys you a reasonable starter with proper tolerances and compatibility. Nothing special, but totally stable and upgradable. At $200, who can complain?

Systema is far from terribly flawed. Terribly flawed would describe any gun still based on the Tokyo Marui gearbox system and most GBBRs. Systema has one flaw, it's motor. Not the motor's design or engineering, but it's assembly. Specifically the armature winding. Luckily we have an excellent fix/mod for that. A real flaw would be not having a proper fix/mod for a problem (ARES!!!), requiring a hose and tank to run your "not paintball gun", your FPS swinging or magazines dumping because of temperature change, inability to reach a 200' plus and consistent shot, or being a clone that doesn't accept upgrade parts well enough to make it worth it.

-motor is flawed, I've seen a tacked motor fail
-stock hop up is useless
-27:1 gear ratio for worse than AEG trigger response
-motor braking kills motors
-electronics cost twice as much as AEG electronics, have less functions and are less durable
-nozzle system is "better engineered" but makes the piston assembly heavier than necessary and the nozzle mashes BBs as soon as there is a misfeed
-can you even shim bevel pinion or are you stuck with adjusting the pinion on the shaft?
-sintered gears at that price?

I think that's a pretty flawed platform.

[Kozzie]

How did this turn into a PTW vs AEG debate, aren't there enough of those threads already?
Didn't you not read OP's question?

IMO, KWA ERG over BOLT, because of the bolt stop feature. I have too many reg AEG's w/o recoil to really want a Katana.

[BioRage]

OP doesn't know what he wants.

ERG =/= AEG

If you want AEG for super duper performance and build something like Steve and Pesto does then get a VFC.

If you want some recoil, get the ERG RM4.

[Red Dot]

Most of my team runs the KWA ERG and love them.

[Kozzie]

.

[Wrath144]

I have two bolts and as of today a KWA ERG. In my opinion the KWA is the best feeling and most solidly built AEG M4. Bolt has better compatibility and technically better stock internals. Without further information on what you're looking for I'd recommend the KWA over the bolt, but in some situations the Bolt would win out.
I plan to create a well documented tuning and compatibility guide for the RM4 as I build mine up as I haven't been able to find much information on tuning this system.

[BioRage]

looks like op found his gun, shrugs.

http://airsoftcanada.com/showpost.ph...19&postcount=4

[EOD Steve]

[BioRage]

Meme time.

[Drakker]

Any reason he couldn't get both? :P

[Long_Bong]

Indeed, looking to get both. Red wolf E&K clearance sale made the ak choise easy!

M4 wise, I was going thru a recent AI magasine and on there list of airsoft gun for 2014, the TM HK416 recoil is the big AEG! I m surprised!!!

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

-motor is flawed, I've seen a tacked motor fail
-stock hop up is useless
-27:1 gear ratio for worse than AEG trigger response
-motor braking kills motors
-electronics cost twice as much as AEG electronics, have less functions and are less durable
-nozzle system is "better engineered" but makes the piston assembly heavier than necessary and the nozzle mashes BBs as soon as there is a misfeed
-can you even shim bevel pinion or are you stuck with adjusting the pinion on the shaft?
-sintered gears at that price?

I think that's a pretty flawed platform.

-490s can last for years, 7511s are garbage though. Tac motors do blow sometimes, but thats what the warranty is for.
-yes, just takes 5min to upgrade it to be amazing though.
-depends on the aeg, if we're talking stock than its better than anything stock. But you can obviously upgrade an aeg to be faster.
-high LOAD on motor braking kills motors. Due to the 24.8:1 gears, the load isnt that high. The brushes last 3-6 years usually. (Remember my 249s ef1300 lasted 3 years of hard use and AB before the brushes wore out, comm was still fine)
-yes and yes but they usually blow due to motor faults or people doing something stupid. Again not uncommon to have boards last 4-6years. Actually just told someone how to fix their recently blown 07 boards, so thats a good 8 year run.
-piston is heavier, doesnt really matter, and the BB munching is actually a fault of the nozzle spring not being strong enough. If it cant get past the weight of the spring or the bb doesnt load fast enough, the piston does slam into the back and crush the bb. But thats the tradeoff of not using a tappet plate.
-theres more than one way to properly set motor height and bevel/pinion engagement. The engagement is always correct (you can only shim the bevel back and forth .03mm in the gearbox), and you actually have a significantly more accurate way of checking pinion height on the ptw than aeg. The armature is open on two sides of the motor and it has play, so you can use a depth gage on the bottom of the armature and actually MEASURE the distance between the pinion and bevel. All my pinions are set exactly .001" below maximum height. Can you say that of any aeg you've ever worked on? Cause i cant lol
-the price is supply and demand, ptws are not nearly as common as aegs, so prices are higher, and systema has no real competition in part quality, so prices are higher.

You also missed that the receivers are cast and are subject to the odd casting crack and break easily (especially uppers), the $60 mags often need new springs to handle .30s, it was very easy to dent and ruin the old $160 cylinders, its super picky about which bbs you can use, the mosfet doesnt have a simple goddamn low voltage detection for lipos, and theyre prone to stop working in high humidity or when they get wet.

Nobodys saying the ptws are perfect, they just have a different set of flaws than an aeg.
but id much sooner deal with the ptws flaws than an aegs flaws. If for no other reason than theyre so damn EASY to work on lol

Also, the gearbox uses gears that are on par with lonex for toughness (like 6/10) and 6mm bearings. And the gearboxes last 300,000 rounds before they start to wear out. You gotta admit thats impressive lol

[Ricochet]

PTWs BAD!!! Because unicorns.....

See? I can make stuff up as well. lol

[lurkingknight]

Originally Posted by Long_Bong

Indeed, looking to get both. Red wolf E&K clearance sale made the ak choise easy!

M4 wise, I was going thru a recent AI magasine and on there list of airsoft gun for 2014, the TM HK416 recoil is the big AEG! I m surprised!!!

some of those ELs are going for ridiculously tempting prices... if I were an AK fan. lol.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by lurkingknight

some of those ELs are going for ridiculously tempting prices... if I were an AK fan. lol.

Cause they are releasing their newer versions soon i think?

Their price being dropped that much makes me questionable, my gut feeling says some companies like WGCSHOP is selling them under "Meister Arms" to prevent deteriorating the E&L brand name.