Magnetics and airsoft applications

[warplane95]

magnetic force is boring, go to the nuclear instead

[Magnumb]

Originally Posted by warplane95

magnetic force is boring, go to the nuclear instead

That's a win right there....just split an atom for an epic game ending win!

[mcguyver]

Building a solenoid to directly drive the piston forward is a waste of time and thought energy. You will never make it work.

That being said, pulling the piston back and getting a spring to propel the piston forward may be workable, but a gear system will still need to be involved as you will not get a solenoid small enough to fit inside the gearbox that can generate enough linear torque, nor have enough linear motion.

I am sure the generation of today does not take too kindly to being told that something can't be done, and don't waste your time. But, more often that not, it is reality.

[dmitril]

Huh, a linear motor piston definitely can be done, we are looking at a low power coilgun basically. Its true that size would make it less than practical but it could work. Also the generation of today is no different from the generation of past, just younger and less experienced.
Another thing that was brought up was using rare earth magnets which would totally do the trick for full auto fire as the efficiency should be reasonable. it just would not fit in ver2/3 form factor easily and be expensive to manufacture by my estimate.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by dmitril

Huh, a linear motor piston definitely can be done, we are looking at a low power coilgun basically. Its true that size would make it less than practical but it could work. Also the generation of today is no different from the generation of past, just younger and less experienced.
Another thing that was brought up was using rare earth magnets which would totally do the trick for full auto fire as the efficiency should be reasonable. it just would not fit in ver2/3 form factor easily and be expensive to manufacture by my estimate.

Sure, a linear motor can be done. Just not in an airsoft gun. You guys are not thinking of basic physics, nor realism.

1) how do you plan to load the BB into the chamber?

2) do you know how big the coil needs to be to generate the magnetic field necessary to propel the operator?

3) do you knowhow big the battery is going to be? It sure ain't going inside the gun. Now you have large diameter wiring exposed. Not so good for realism.

4) capacitor banks? Really? Sorry, I am not so keen to have exposed wiring with charged capacitors just begging to be flopped on when you trip.

We currently have rather efficient guns where a 1200mah battery can fit in a buffe tube and consistantly fire BBs in excess of 400fps for thousands of rounds on a single charge. They are very reliable systems, with parts and maintenance easy, and little risk of fire or explosion, and they are self-contained.

The idea of a rail gun, or in this case rail-assisted seems feasible when you warch "Eraser", but anyone with any mechanical skills at all recognizes immediate deal-breaker problems that simply can not be overcome with existing technology.

Please though, enlighten us with drawings and prototypes of how you think it is to be done.

[Ricochet]

Or just make one and we can all see how that goes. Let me know when the working and properly sized, weighted and efficient prototype hits. I'd like to an airsoft gun without a motor or needing gas as a propellant.

[Kokanee]

With the perfection of GBBR technology, there really isn't a point to developing an "EM gearbox" for airsoft. Airsoft has been divided into two camps, and neither would buy the product;

"The Huddled Masses" Poor uni students, mcjob employees, people living in their parents basements and the ignorant; these are the types that still use electric guns. Lacking disposable income or a desire for realism, not likely to "poney up the dough" for an expensive EM propulsion system; and

"The Bourgeois Airsofter" Blue or white collar professional with disposable income, desire for realism in the game. Fields primarily GBBR or highend electric guns such as systemas. Lack of realism of your proposed mechanism wouldn't appeal, nor would this group be eager to ditch their expensive investment into what they have already bought to switch over.

[ThunderCactus]

What if it had really strong recoil?
Aaaaaaaand it's back in the running.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

What if it had really strong recoil?
Aaaaaaaand it's back in the running.

With a quality cast zinc alloy.

Aaaaaannnd, back out of the running.

[ThunderCactus]

lol
Well the two major issues are size and power consumption.
Assuming you could design it small enough to work as a drop in V2 mechbox and have room for a battery in a normal M16 stock, it could sell.
But if it consumes more energy than an AEG, it's not really worth buying.

[Ricochet]

Well, GBBRs are cool and all, but having some kick and/or pop while firing, isn't worth the trade off of having to carry a dedicated line or tank, not being able to go out for a whole endurance game without having to comeback and gas up a million times, or having to carry a ton of green gas or CO2 canisters, or having fluctuations due to temperature and humidity, etc. No, no, always function, versatility and performance over gimmicky sudo realism. So other than a scrim during ideal conditions, GBBRs are fun but not practical. That's why all the AEGs......and also the cost. But if you have the cash always the PTW.

[-=ArchAngel=-]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

Well, GBBRs are cool and all, but having some kick and/or pop while firing, isn't worth the trade off of having to carry a dedicated line or tank, not being able to go out for a whole endurance game without having to comeback and gas up a million times, or having to carry a ton of green gas or CO2 canisters, or having fluctuations due to temperature and humidity, etc. No, no, always function, versatility and performance over gimmicky sudo realism. So other than a scrim during ideal conditions, GBBRs are fun but not practical. That's why all the AEGs......and also the cost. But if you have the cash always the PTW.

Then why not polar star?

[Ricochet]

Hard line and tank.... Just terrible. Although I like their performance, it's not really a huge step up from a well tuned and upgraded AEG. No, for me at least the whole tank and line thing was a huge fail.

[pestobanana]

When you guys talk about efficiency, you're probably talking about efficiency for moving the piston. I'm talkin about power input in watts vs power output in watts (J output x RPS).

I doubt you will:
-get this system to be as efficient as a properly tuned AEG
-fit inside a receiver
-not require an external power source

Sure you can get this idea to work, no it wil not be anywhere near practical.

[MadMax]

Many years ago there was an arms race going on at Airsoft Mechanics:

http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/i...hp?topic=502.0

Unfortunately all my picture links are dead. My Pbase account lapsed years ago so they dumped them. Anyways, the text is still up there. We basically pursued high voltage electromagnetic concepts for firing pellets. The short summary was that we ended up abandoning the project having failed to do better than 1% efficiency with our coil setups. Unless we were to greatly increase voltages, we would not be able to improve efficiency even though we had tried unusual coil configurations and even rectangular cross section wire. Since we could not get enough motive work out of the energy we put in, even at 400V, we decided to abandon the work since going with higher voltages would result in a very dangerous product.