All I see is G&G

[Curo]

Originally Posted by TCLP

TL;DR:
G&P, VFC great externals, poor reliability, higher price
CA good externals, good reliability, higher price
G&G average externals, good reliability, average price
TM average externals, good reliability, higher price

I got to disagree.

VFC is very good in terms of reliability (We are talking AEGs here) and TM is airsoft GOD in the realm of reliability.

[Swattiger]

Originally Posted by Curo

I got to disagree.

VFC is very good in terms of reliability (We are talking AEGs here) and TM is airsoft GOD in the realm of reliability.

+1.

It actually depends on the gun model. I have VFC Scar H, SSR, PDW, all perform well out of the box. And great externals.

I also have G&G M14 EBR Max, F2000 Hunter, also perform well in stock form.

So it's actually "you get for what you pay for".

[ThunderCactus]

I really like to suggest them as starter guns

-they're inexpensive considering;
-they're very marui compatible inside and out
-fairly decent metal bodies
-good consistency of "quality" (not like G&P where every 4th gun is a total demon)
-average stock performance, can be upgraded to be pretty good
-excellent option between chinasoft and VFC/G&P

[TCLP]

Originally Posted by Curo

I got to disagree.

VFC is very good in terms of reliability (We are talking AEGs here) and TM is airsoft GOD in the realm of reliability.

TM is GOD in stock form but with the average FPS most people run now they need a few good parts. Like the bushings. Which is why I only say good reliability.

I guess we have seen very different results with VFC.
But most AEG's with a few parts can be made to be incredibly reliable.

[SuperHog]

Well G&G has gotten into paintball stores as well. Badlands and Premium never carried airsoft stuff.

If you have visited a Badlands recently, one side of the wall has a limited amount of paintball gun choices, but on the opposite wall, edge to edge with G&G and all G&G accessories.

Paintball business is flat, but airsoft is booming.

[ThunderCactus]

Also should be noted that G&G is a MASSIVE advertising and product pushing whore. They've done pretty much anything they've needed to do to get their products into Canada.

Originally Posted by TCLP

TM is GOD in stock form but with the average FPS most people run now they need a few good parts. Like the bushings. Which is why I only say good reliability.

Unfortunately marui isn't worth buying anymore, the older models haven't been updated for use outside japan, and if you're planning to run them up to 400fps, you pretty much need a drop in mechbox. Otherwise;
-new mechbox shell or sorbo
-bushings
-gears
-possibly the piston, they're good but not the toughest available
-motor, they're well tuned, but don't have a lot of torque
-cylinder head, plastic
-piston head (if you get an old ass unvented one)
-air nozzle, not sure but I don't think marui had the O-rings in them

And if you want a metal body on it? Just buy a new gun, it'll be cheaper lol

[pestobanana]

TM reliable, yes but... Take a look at any TM metal components and you'll realise how shitty their low melting point Japanese legal metal is. Their gears look like garbage, their gearbox shells are so soft I can BEND motor cages by hand. Not flex, BEND. Stick a TM level spring in almost any gun and it'll last forever.

As for VFC I'm fairly impressed with their guns. Their externals on their ARs and SCARs are the best hands down. Their internals are good, not great, but good. Air seal has always been great in stock form, and my latest VFC even came with a neo motor.

[SuperHog]

I think we know by now that TM is not interested in the market outside Japan. Their laws limits them to under 1 Joule so why would they need to make their gear box support heavier springs?

Although TM have terrific detail and quality on their plastic injection and cast alum components, upgrading the spring for North American gaming will kill the TM gear box.

With more and more popular Polar Star HPA conversions, TM externals would be ideal.

Just recently Wolverine Airsoft announced their AEG HPA drop in kits with lower pricing than Polar Star, and it looks like they are undercuting Polar Star for a share of that pneumatic conversion business.

http://popularairsoft.com/news/wolve...-msrp-revealed

[ThunderCactus]

Actually VFC has the best externals for the polarstar kits, since the polarstar was designed on a VFC lol

[Corinth]

When I first became interested in airsoft it was because some guy opened a hobby shop here in town called "Northern Hobbies", all he sold were G&G products and back then I had no idea about the various brands or inner workings of airsoft. I knew about companies like TM that carried a big reputation and when I asked him about that he told me,

"Oh, yeah... G&G is pretty much a rebrand of Tokyo Marui." ...

At the time, I took his word on it. I never did buy any of his guns, because the mark up was high and he only carried four different guns (an AK, M4, M14 & MP5, I believe) but I was converted from paintball from that interaction. Decent enough guy, but the store closed down only after a few months of operation.

I would recommend G&G to somebody who wanted to try out airsoft without breaking the bank, even their Combat Machine Line (compared with a CYMA or Jing Gong) is okay so long as you are prepared for frequent breakdowns. As most of you mentioned, parts availability is better for G&G so you can beef up the internals and have a decent skirmishing gun.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Although TM have terrific detail and quality on their plastic injection and cast alum components, upgrading the spring for North American gaming will kill the TM gear box.

Maybe on V2's. TM V3's and others can handle 400fps springs just fine.

Originally Posted by Corinth

even their Combat Machine Line (compared with a CYMA or Jing Gong) is okay so long as you are prepared for frequent breakdowns.

I wouldn't say that's true. Yes the parts in them are not as good as the Toptechs, but they're perfectly good rifles that can last years.

[Corinth]

Originally Posted by Styrak

I wouldn't say that's true. Yes the parts in them are not as good as the Toptechs, but they're perfectly good rifles that can last years.

I don't dispute that but I find things last much longer when they are properly maintained, some people forego that simple rule and just chuck 'em in a box when they're done playing with it.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Corinth

I don't dispute that but I find things last much longer when they are properly maintained, some people forego that simple rule and just chuck 'em in a box when they're done playing with it.

AEG's are pretty low maintenance. For example I owned my G&G Sig550 for 2 or 3 years, then decided to open up the mechbox to take a look. Took a look, OK looks fine, very little wear. Closed it back up, been running it for another 2 years or so.

Generally AEG's only need to be opened up if something breaks.

[Adrenalineguy]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Well G&G has gotten into paintball stores as well. Badlands and Premium never carried airsoft stuff.

If you have visited a Badlands recently, one side of the wall has a limited amount of paintball gun choices, but on the opposite wall, edge to edge with G&G and all G&G accessories.

badlands is one of the 3 distributors, they have embraced Airsoft whole heartedly

[Caelan]

I started out with my first and second guns as G&G's. They were both Top Techs. Both were decent guns but both had feeding issues and from what ive leanred also have weak gearbox housings (crack easy with a higher spring upgrade). I am a KWA guy for life! Open up a KWA and put it beside any gun internally "stock" and the KWA will win hands down (just my opinion). There is not too many guns you can drop in a m150 spring and need no internal upgrades without having problems.