Bill C-21 to prohibit airsoft guns in canada

[Snerpydoodle]

Originally Posted by Drache

From the RCMP website:

"A licence is not required to possess a replica firearm, and it does not have to be registered. However, individuals cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm."

The law isnt going to classify airsoft as replicas it would assify them as "prohibited devices" which is different from a prohibited firearm. Its unclear if this is an actual category legally or just wording they are using to say they will now be illegal because theyre expanding what a replica is legally and they will fall under the replica ban.


Also where have you guys seen people walking it back that maybe orange tips are ok?

[Drakker]

I would be very wary of offering "colorful" compromises.The best way to approach this in my opinion is something like Ukara or whatever it is called in the UK. You got the licence/membership/whatever, you can buy full black airsoft guns, you don't, or you are under 18/21, then you get the colorful toys. Forcing people to use fluorescent guns or even orange tips will kill the sport as effectively as C-21 would. You can't hide in the woods with a damned orange tip, it would ruin outdoors games.

[Walms]

id like to send a few letters to the local Ontario MP's. can someone link me or copy/paste the pre drafted letter. I will make a few tweaks myself but id like to sounds as professional as possible.

Thanks

[scratcher]

Doesn't appear as my planned entry into Airsoft is going to happen afterall.
I suppose I'll just stick with my real steel, at least until the Liberals abolish those completely.

[Magwell]

Originally Posted by 666

In my understanding, after watching several videos posted by Ian Runlke, he has zero interest in airsoft. He he is just one of those trap shooters who happens t o care about hobbies he is not even involved in and happens to be a lawyer that lagerly deals with firearm related offenses. He takes laws apart and explains explains exactly how they might apply to an average Joe.

Ian Runkle is local to the Edmonton area. He hasn’t been out in a while but I’ve played along side him before. I can’t speak for him, but I disagree on the zero interest comment.

[Magwell]

Originally Posted by Drache

Yup you're right they don't make the laws. But I can tell you many times I've dealt with the RCMP and used one of their own information sheets to prove my point to them. It's amazing how their attitudes change when you have them something with their own letterhead stating something completely different.

That being said, The criminal code of Canada also states:



So the CCC states that Replica Firearms are prohibited in the definition phase, but makes no mention of them further in the CCC. In fact the CCC goes so far to make sure that Replica Firearms are excluded from anything else to do with firearms. So until bill C21 actually changes the CCC... and bill C21 is only adding the definition of airsoft to the already defined replica firearm.

The issue is 117.03:

Seizure on failure to produce authorization

117.03 (1) Despite section 117.02, a peace officer who finds

(a) a person in possession of a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm or a non-restricted firearm who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess the firearm and, in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it, or

(b) a person in possession of a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess it,

may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this Part, or the person is under the direct and immediate supervision of another person who may lawfully possess it.

The sections you quoted are, in my understanding, just saying its not a criminal offense to possess a replica firearm. 117.03, directly noted in C21, allows for confiscation of replica firearms being they are defined as prohibited.

[ArcticFox1984]

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local...e-toys-3515413

Key quote from the article:

"The only thing we're saying is [the guns] can't exactly replicate and be indistinguishable from the real thing because that creates an unacceptable risk," said Blair.

As for retailers who say the law will wipe them out, Blair says all they need to do is change the guns.

"It's certainly possible for people engaged in the manufacture or retail of those devices to render them, either by colour or by significant markings, distinguishable from the real thing, and I don't think that, in any way, limits their recreational use," he said.

"And I've heard from some of the retailers that the exact image and replicating the real thing is part of the fun of these things but, quite frankly, I think we have to strike a balance and we have to consider the impact on public safety."


I suppose the question then becomes, what constitutes significant markings / acceptable colour schemes... he seems to indicate it is something a retailer could do themselves; so not quite as drastic as clear lowers but that might have some precedent in terms of qualification. Without an amendment to the bill to address the issue in more detail; we may not know until someone gets a related through court... until then I would assume it would be up to the discretion of the CBSA/RCMP.

[scratcher]

Major manufactures of Airsoft will not be inclined to produce alternate lines of their products to suit a Canadian market that may have some yet to be seen crazy requlations, it just wouldn't be profitable for them being that the Canadian market is quite small relative to other markets.

Some boutique manufatures are possible, but the cost and availability would be an issue.

As for retailers having to modify an Airsoft to meet yet to be determined regulation or law, well that's a possibility also but again cost and availability becomes the concern.

Some may point out that real steel firearm manufactures make versions of their products for Canadian markets and that would be correct but the availability of those particular lines hit and miss.

[DAVESAGE]

The other issue is as the bill stands right now there is a ban on import of those airsoft guns, so even if shops could modify them, getting their hands on inventory would be a problem for Canadian retailers

[Snerpydoodle]

Originally Posted by ArcticFox1984

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local...e-toys-3515413

Key quote from the article:

"The only thing we're saying is [the guns] can't exactly replicate and be indistinguishable from the real thing because that creates an unacceptable risk," said Blair.

As for retailers who say the law will wipe them out, Blair says all they need to do is change the guns.

"It's certainly possible for people engaged in the manufacture or retail of those devices to render them, either by colour or by significant markings, distinguishable from the real thing, and I don't think that, in any way, limits their recreational use," he said.

"And I've heard from some of the retailers that the exact image and replicating the real thing is part of the fun of these things but, quite frankly, I think we have to strike a balance and we have to consider the impact on public safety."


I suppose the question then becomes, what constitutes significant markings / acceptable colour schemes... he seems to indicate it is something a retailer could do themselves; so not quite as drastic as clear lowers but that might have some precedent in terms of qualification. Without an amendment to the bill to address the issue in more detail; we may not know until someone gets a related through court... until then I would assume it would be up to the discretion of the CBSA/RCMP.

Hes trying to make it sound like some simple reasonable thing to try to make us look unreasonable. If they were interested in a middle ground they would have laid out some possible examples of how this could be done in the bill not just try to outright ban them.

[Warderp]

Originally Posted by ArcticFox1984

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local...e-toys-3515413

Key quote from the article:

"The only thing we're saying is [the guns] can't exactly replicate and be indistinguishable from the real thing because that creates an unacceptable risk," said Blair.

As for retailers who say the law will wipe them out, Blair says all they need to do is change the guns.

"It's certainly possible for people engaged in the manufacture or retail of those devices to render them, either by colour or by significant markings, distinguishable from the real thing, and I don't think that, in any way, limits their recreational use," he said.

"And I've heard from some of the retailers that the exact image and replicating the real thing is part of the fun of these things but, quite frankly, I think we have to strike a balance and we have to consider the impact on public safety."


I suppose the question then becomes, what constitutes significant markings / acceptable colour schemes... he seems to indicate it is something a retailer could do themselves; so not quite as drastic as clear lowers but that might have some precedent in terms of qualification. Without an amendment to the bill to address the issue in more detail; we may not know until someone gets a related through court... until then I would assume it would be up to the discretion of the CBSA/RCMP.

When I read the original bill I was thinking they want to ban it outright or force us to go back to the clear plastic lowers on everything. These comments kind of give me more questions, before they said it had to be a clear plastic lower because bright colours don't matter as you could paint a real gun funky colours.

If it only requires "significant markings" does that mean its only "no real steel trades" so if you have your "VFC"or "G&P" gun that says "6mm" instead of one that says "Colt" "5.56" you are ok?

I think it is wishful thinking to get away with just that, as you would need to get pretty close to inspect that, and at that point you could flip the gun over and see the hopup unit in the magwell (I suppose it is an external/internal check issue just like the CBSA serial number for the Y38 issue... it just has to have A serial number on the gun not essentially a unique or manufacturers serial number.

I guess the key thing to remember, like with everything is: Its government policy, it doesn't have to make sense.

[Snerpydoodle]

Does anyone know when the hell bill c21 is actually being voted on? Theres nothing on the twitter feed saying the vote was pushed back last week but there doesnt appear to be anything saying the vote happened it will happen today. I want to find out whats going on.

[Kwokwai]

Good vid from Ian Runkle specific to the speculations around changing coloration/orange tips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxtKHey3f8Y

[talon]

Yeah, changing colours is simply to try and deflect. Straight up, orange tips or colours are a dangerous position to adopt for airsoft.

I think a better question is "how many high quality airsoft guns are used in crime, vs how many Canadian Tire/Walmart specials with painted tips?"

[Warderp]

Some recent internet happenings have brought to my attention that perhaps we are looking at this from the wrong angle and if you have been saddled with an MP from the Liberal party in your area you need to write them a letter in language and terms they will understand and be unable to defend against.
Follows is an example of such a letter:

[Your Name]
[Your Business (If Applicable)]
[Your Address Line 1]
[Your Address Line 2]


[Today’s Date]

[Name of Member of Parliament]
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
K1A 0A6

I identify as a SuperStraight Gunsexual, I fall into the SuperStraight category of the LGBTQ+ movement except I am also sexually aroused/attracted to firearms.

I am especially attracted to my airsoft shotgun, I love it because I can pump it as hard as I want and as often as I want, I feel liberated to come out as a gunsexual because now I don't feel ashamed to pump it in front of other people or feel inclined to follow my other gunsexual inclinations and shoot other airsoft guns.
I am also fully gunsexual as I don't discriminate and will shoot airsoft and real steel, both sides of my gunsexual awaking and coming out are represented.
As a member of the ASIC CCFR SSG LGBTQ+ community I am saddened that bill C-21 contains hate speech targeting the institutionally repressed gunsextual community. In contravention of section 15 of The Charter guaranteeing equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law, and in violation of the provincial human rights code which protects against discrimination based on LGBTQ+ orientation.
I am glad that the ASIC CCFR SSG LGBTQ+ communities are so open and welcoming to the diversity in our country that they accept me for my gunsexuality, yet I am saddened that this liberal government has tabled legislation with so couched in hate speech so blatantly targeting an already persecuted minority of the LGBTQ+ community in the form of C-21.
Please explain why such a forward looking progressive government is so BIGOTED towards LGBTQ+.

Yours truly,

[Your Signature]

[Your Name]


This was rather hastily done, and could possibly require some tweaking/improvement, there are definitely more buzzwords that can be tossed into the salad.