City police ask public force to register replica firearms

Well, although I agree with you, I think it's deeper than that. It's the belief that because something seems dangerous, and serves no useful purpose to *them*, there's no reason for it to serve any useful purpose to *anyone* and society would be better without it.

It's accepting that somehow, someone else can determine what's right or wrong, and you accept it because as long as you're a good guy, it won't affect you personally.

It's the mentality that believes you can give a man fish forever, and he'll somehow learn how to fish.

A bit dramatic, but every now and then this needs to be reposted:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[AS92-RD]

Rights? What rights? We don't even own what is under our land. We are subjects of the crown and the whims of the sovereign. But Canadian politicians have control of the crown via parliament and the GG. It's just a fucked up system that needs some fundamental changes beginning with true Citizen's rights and a system for the people, not for the crown.

Originally Posted by AS92-RD

Rights? What rights? We don't even own what is under our land. We are subjects of the crown and the whims of the sovereign. But Canadian politicians have control of the crown via parliament and the GG. It's just a fucked up system that needs some fundamental changes beginning with true Citizen's rights and a system for the people, not for the crown.

We do have rights, and although they don't include property, they are rights nonetheless and should NOT be infringed upon, and no person should wilfully allow those rights we have to be legislated away.

ESPECIALLY by some fucking tin-pot city council that has neither the authority nor the right to do so.

[Rugger_can]

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

Well, although I agree with you, I think it's deeper than that. It's the belief that because something seems dangerous, and serves no useful purpose to *them*, there's no reason for it to serve any useful purpose to *anyone* and society would be better without it.

It's accepting that somehow, someone else can determine what's right or wrong, and you accept it because as long as you're a good guy, it won't affect you personally.

It's the mentality that believes you can give a man fish forever, and he'll somehow learn how to fish.

A bit dramatic, but every now and then this needs to be reposted:

I think that is a more coherent way of looking at it. The problem is getting "the them they" to see this fundamental truth.

Originally Posted by AS92-RD

Rights? What rights? We don't even own what is under our land. We are subjects of the crown and the whims of the sovereign. But Canadian politicians have control of the crown via parliament and the GG. It's just a fucked up system that needs some fundamental changes beginning with true Citizen's rights and a system for the people, not for the crown.

A good analogy for "change" is that of a car in reverse. You need to stop moving backwards before you can start moving forward.

[bareass]

some of this information is a bit contradictory, would someone mind clearing something up for me?
the BFL is a license which would allow you to import replica firearms, but people who have used this have been fined, shut down, locked up or what have you, for using a BFL to import airsoft guns and sell them? did i read this correctly?

if that is the case, then airsoft guns are considered replicas, or is this just the pistols.
if this is the case, then why do stores like 007 have to sell the guns so hot in order to sell them. he is importing them hot to sell them as unregistered firearms. correct?

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by bareass

some of this information is a bit contradictory, would someone mind clearing something up for me?
the BFL is a license which would allow you to import replica firearms, but people who have used this have been fined, shut down, locked up or what have you, for using a BFL to import airsoft guns and sell them? did i read this correctly?

if that is the case, then airsoft guns are considered replicas, or is this just the pistols.
if this is the case, then why do stores like 007 have to sell the guns so hot in order to sell them. he is importing them hot to sell them as unregistered firearms. correct?

This question has been asked and answered literally a thousand times here on ASC. Read Honest John's thread on this matter:

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609

[bareass]

read it.... lets clarify to people who don't know, honest john's name was changed correct?

so from what that thread says, airsoft guns are legal to own, but illegal to buy, sell, trade, give. but know one seems to care.

so is what brian said accurate? if a gun can be modified to fire hot enough it is not considered a replica, or must it be in that condition at the time of purchase/import?

Its all interpretive by whoever handles the package on the way in.

Essentially, the BFL allows the import of prohibited items or replicas, but only for the purposes of supplying them to authorized individuals (movie studio's, for example). None of the general public are considered authorized to purchase replicas, so if you use it to sell to the public you're breaking the law.

There were a half dozen retailers that were using the BFL to bring in their stock. At least two were charged, one that I know of was convicted, and the others gave up the trade because it wasn't worth the risk.

[Kurgan]

Carl,
I've attempted to answer your questions below... admittedly, some require longer and more detailed responses, but I wanted to keep things short, as the response itself was going to take up a considereable amount of screen already. I encourage your to review and comment, inquire or critique where necessary.

------------------------------
Kurgan explain to me and ASC the likely path of registration on a National level, and most importantly explain how showing a sign of "GOOD FAITH" is going to be received by the powers that be and make this community legitimized?

I’ve no idea how it will be received, and by the same token, neither do you. So any conclusions we may draw are merely opinion based and subject to our personal feelings towards the matter. However, effort should be made on our side to ensure we take part in the discussions that occur and we emphasize the efforts made by the National Community to keep these airsoft accessories out of the hands of people we find are underage or those we’ve refused to grant and AV status to.

How is that going to be received by the political parties in Canada, and who out of them is actual going to honor our "sign of good faith" with positive legislation...

Positive legislation can only be accomplished with the direct involvement of the stakeholders and the government. If either fails to commit fully on their end, the legislation is destined to favor the more vocal and aggressive side.

Most of these parties have no idea about Airsoft guns? What do you think there reaction will be? What news coverage can we expect from the CBC? CBC might say another loop hole found in our firearm laws possible,Oh look that NDP private members bill addresses some of these issues.

As with any introduction, it needs to be structured in a manner that not only shows the players are from all walks of life and professions, but are intelligent, safety oriented and understand the false impressions the public may have about the sport and it’s accessories.

How will RCMP or the "Police Association" take to your sign of "Good Faith".

I would like to believe (and it’s only my opinion) that all Law Enforcement groups would be viewing anyone who registers their “accessories” as law abiding and understands that Law Enforcement can only benefit by knowing what is out there. A “safety of the officer” spin could be used here.

By all means please explain how this will be done? what do we get out of registering our ASG's, what class will our guns be put under that we can expect these "baby looking killers" to be put in..

Quite frankly, airsoft guns would be better off if they were in a class of their own. It would make legislation easier (double edged sword, I agree).

Will this change our importation laws at the CBSA?

Perhaps, if the progression is as described previously.

Will this benefit us in some way, I guess we will need approved ranges as well, this would go under the CFO of whatever province to over see, new laws would have to be drafted, after all these are registered firearms now? We can't just have war games at a park with the local police permission, can we?

It would benefit us, in that the game would be recognized and understood better. If they were to research and investigate the game on their own where would they go? ASC where they can view this thread? Or would we prefer to organize a press release or interview where we can disseminate the information in a fashion that meets our requirements.

If they start registering the AG's in several towns and cities won't this mean and eventual registration on a national level? I could see Toronto pushing for it, as for Quebec they are always for more firearm laws......

I honestly don’t know how many towns or cities would bother with a bylaw such as this one, and the jump from bylaw to federal law is quite a step. I know there are cities in the U.S. where airsoft guns are illegal, but given their issues with handgun and gang related violence I understand it.

How we can turn this story into an opportunity for positive

We can start by switching our attitudes towards staying in the closet about this sport. I’m not saying that we should all rally to City Hall or our Provincial Legislator Building in fatigues, gear and guns, but we shouldn't run and bury our heads in the sand when situations arise that would warrant a response from an organized body of said sport.

All sports hold press conferences or press releases when something major happens in them, why can’t we. Why can’t we elect a national representation board of players to respond to issues and be the voice of airsoft at a national level.

I’ve tried my best to answer all your questions here… I apologize for the huge post.

[SniperSam]

The thing is, with more restrictions, comes more crime. i.e. England imposing strict gun laws, gun crime rate has sky rocketed over 900% since it was first introduced

[CARL]

What ever happened to Honest John?

[CARL]

The problem is Kurgan, you may mean well, but I can't see that being received well if at all received. At best we will be thrown in with all the gun groups and then making us a bigger target...

Not trying to be negative but that is the historical trend..

[VooDooPeteK]

The one thing I am wondering is how do you register them?

With my RS firearms I have a serial number but with airsoft we have what?

and then after registered would you need to transfer that if we sold said gun?

So... would I register? Well if I had to then yes I would just like RS firearms, do I want to?...Hell no

I know this is just one town that has this but if it caught on and it went all over Canada then this would just hurt what we have been trying to do in the RS world.

I did read a post that said something on the lines of " well will me $2 registry fee make someone rich...I don't think so"

In short...yes it will and your taxes will help pay to make them rich just like the long gun registry. I would rather spend that money on educating people on the sport of airsoft.

For those that think registration doesn't lead to confiscation then you need to read a bit more and see what the people in the RS world have been dealing with.

wanna help? follow this link: http://www.canadaammo.com/product.ph...4&cat=7&page=1 cause when it happens in airsoft we will need all the support and more

[Kurgan]

I think one of the trends I'm seeing is the comparison or inclusion of RS with airsoft. I understand the replica arguement and the idea that they both invoke the same public and legal reaction when used in crimes, but one has considerably more potential, that being the ability to take someone's life.

Honestly, I'm not concerned about RS, I have mine and they're all registered, stored, cared for and used properly and safely. My sons (18 & 21) also have RS, and they've learned most of thier behaviour with guns from me, and a little from the HS/FS course offered by DNR.

If we begin making a case that they are different, perhaps the public or government will ease restrictions (I know fat chance of that). If (I notice I use "if" a lot here) government eased it's stand, then perhaps purchasing, importing and using wouldn't have such a stigma associated with them.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

I think the whole "register Airguns" thing was a kneejerk reaction of the police in the town mentioned... I doubt they thought it through with respect to how, why .. costs

you would need retailers to get on board, you would need to create a database.. the costs would be prohibitive over the possible benefit.

it's really a non starter.

it's much ado about nothing at the end of it.