Warning for KJW M700 users and game orgs

[Goldman]

they can be tuned down.

[Shugart]

Originally Posted by Goldman

they can be tuned down.

No no, I meant the tests Stalker and roc and company were gonna do. The velocities at range, and pain and what not.

[CDN_Stalker]

Sorry, hadn't done it yet. There was an occasion the weekend that we got them that a teammate unknowingly used propane with his and shot a guy in the elbow with a .25g BB about 150ft away............. no complaints......... actually, praise for the shot was given.

Anyways, since it's become available how to adjust for power (am shooting 450fps with duster now, but am going to tweak it to shoot 450fps with propane, since I already use propane for all my GBBs, and I might get more shots per fill), I feel it's kinda a moot point overall, except when it comes down to knocking up the fps limits for sniper rifles. In which case, players come in all types of mindset/pain thresholds. I mean, there are former paintball guys that suck up pain well and don't care about what guns they get shot by. Then there are others who feel stock guns are too hot to play with and wear inch thick padding under their clothes and don't feel hits. Seems too variable to do much with. I still say visual distance gauging (show me a tree that is 100ft from us, that is minimum engagment distance) and proven responsibility of the individual player wanting to use an upgraded sniper rifle is what counts most. Me, I'm fine using a 400-450fps sniper rifle, mainly because I know my rifles inside & out and can use them well. If the limit got knocked up to 500fps, I won't be rushing to get another 50fps out of it unless I had proven it was beneficial to me aka. another 40-50ft range before the BB gets affected by wind currents or such.

[krazie Sj]

Originally Posted by Droc

I been hit with 500fps at 60 feet. Ill tell you, a GBB in CQB is far worse.

I've been hit with a Kar98 at 25ºC at 15 feet and it hurt like a bitch.

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by krazie Sj

I've been hit with a Kar98 at 25ºC at 15 feet and it hurt like a bitch.

Obviously! :|

[MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Primus

"Hi I like to post to just hear myself talk..."

It's like being stuck in the "Groundhog Day" movie scenario.
Everytime I turn on my damn computer, it's the same damn post...over and over again. Whatever makes him feel omnipotent and special, works for making his day....why would we need to break his bubble...I feel it's kinda sad, kinda like an old dog in the humane society, nobody wants.

[Scarecrow]

I've read through the thread and there is a lot of nonsense mixed in with some good information.

Carl and or Grim, do your results validate my hosting rules of .20g <= 410 full auto, okay, 15 foot mercy, and .20g >=411 <=450 is semi only or BA still okay, OR does the M700 on propane put a new twist on it by somehow imparting more energy at lower velocities? Should M700's be their own special case?

I hear the arguments about fps + joules being the legal firearm rule, however, I would not want to try and explain that distinction in a legal situation, as shooting over 500fps doesn't LOOK good and to figure out velocity its simple enough to seize the rifle and send it to Ottawa for testing. Results in the same thing, seizure of your gun and an lot of questions you don't need or want. AND if you do hurt someone at any velocity with an airsoft rifle and the cops decide to charge, it does not matter because it will automatically be upgraded to a weapons offense anyways. So your AEG will for legal purposes be treated as a real firearm under the firearms act. The cops don't need cooperation from the injured party if they feel a charge is warranted.

Now, my question is are these M700's capable of firing .20g at over 720fps? If thats the case then, it would be in some not-so-creative legal circles classified as a firearm because its capable of doing so with the right loads. I don't know, I am not a M700 gas gun expert, but it strikes me that if the gun is capable of such velocity and joules, it will be classified as a firearm.

Frankly my personal opinion is I think all AEGs and gas guns should be treated equally no matter if they are BA, Battery, Gas, full, semi or single. The end result is a projectile traveling at danger-speed velocities. As for certifying someone to shoot that at someone else at close to or on danger-speeds, as a host, and a uninsured responsible party, I am not prepared to accept any kind of assurances from anyone, as my ass is on the line, as well as anyone, however unintentially, who is hurt by such a gun. I don't care who you are, nobody's judgement is good enough to be 100% assured of no accidents or misjudgements. Its simply not worth it.

If you want to shoot shit that hard and fast, go real steel.

[CDN_Stalker]

The M700 can't shoot over 720fps. Sure, on a SUPER hot day, the first shot (if it's been adjusted full out) might come close, but the fps drops rapidly (two more shots) to sit around 550fps. Since the gun is adjustable (tools needed), I've gotten mine down to 450fps on propane with .2g BBs but the first two shots might be just under 500fps. So as long as diligence is adheared to, dry fire twice after a gas fill, these things are fine to use, as long as tested before hand. Gas lasts about 20 decent shots (two mags) before dropping rapidly, so if you look at it this way, this time not by actual numbers tested, but as a discription, first might be 490ish, second might be 460ish, remaining 15-20 rounds would sit around 440-450fps, then would drop off to well below 400fps. Keep in mind that the bolt and hammer spring preloading is what determines the amount of gas released, therefore the fps of the gun. The bolt is easily removable and exchangable with other M700s. If a player chronies legal, it's about 10mins work with tools to adjust the spring tension. So it's easier than some, harder than others, I'll just leave it up to the field owner to determine what is safe.

[Gryphon]

I would like to add to this interesting discussion, that I read on Airsoft Retreat that propane is the most inconsistent gas to use with this rifle. I have noticed this with my rifle and I use duster in it even though I use propane in all of my other gas guns. Tetra duster seems to give a more stable velocity spread and is slightly more accurate, albeit more expensive. However for the few shots you typically take with this type of gun it may pay off.

On that subject, would anyone care to venture a guess as to why my rifle shoots FASTER on duster than on propane? I theorize that my striker spring is weak, and the higher pressure propane is putting more force on the magazine valve and a smaller volume of propane is being released, whereas with duster the pressure is lower and the striker can force the valve open fully to get a higher volume of gas. The difference in FPS is markedly large; propane doesn't usually chrono any higher than 400, duster gets as high as 460. The striker is cranked down for maximum power.

I'm considering swapping bolts and mags with another local fellow who also just got one of these rifles and see if it's the striker, or just my mag. If the former I'll order the G&G Power Bolt set from WGC, that should fix it right up.

[CDN_Stalker]

Might just be a case of buying the $4 striker spring from WGC for the Tanaka M700.

Your case I find odd. Claiming the striker spring is weak though, I doubt. If you haven't cut it down, I find it unlikely that your spring is weaker than mine, which I cut down about a coil's to a coil & a half's worth. Propane is by far the more powerful of the two, chronying with a hot day's test (after the pressure settled from a couple dry fires) duster being between 435-445fps and propane being 555-560fps using .2g. That is the way it was, have since tuned it down figuring less higher pressure gas per shot, more consistant shots per gas fill. Have to see if true.

As far as duster yielding more accuracy, there is some truth there in that the faster a BB is flying, the more inconsistant the aerodynamics of it will be, espeically if the BB has a backspin (hop up) on it. Same as with my spring M24. I put in my new PDI 300% spring, hard as anything to cock, but worse, the BBs went every where. After cutting about 6 coils from the spring, it's not only much easier to cock, but the BBs are a hell of a lot more accurate and consistant.

[burritoboi5]

Hey Guys I just got my KJW M700 about two weeks ago but have yet to play with it. So in the meantime I have been reading through this page and would like to commend you all as it contains some very useful info. My setup thusfar is that I have done a custom mixed sage green with grey airbrushed camo. A crappy little airgun scope. And I just finished hooking drilling and tapping a hole in the mag for my hpa line. I've got it running around 115 PSI right now and have not fired it other than before on green gass...which sucked. I was getting all kind of wrong. The first few shots were too high and the hopup was innefiective then I got three Schwaweet ones only to be followed by bird killers. So with the constant pressure it should shoot really nice and consistently. Plus I can reg it down to lower fps for woodland combat which is where I will use it most...so no 200 foot shots, most will be just over 100 feet. I was just wondering do most of you guys you grandmasters? I am gonna be shooting the black Straight .36's and so far I like em. :xmas: almost that time boys....

[Valcrow]

Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, though more for general FPS information and less about m700s. Last time we were out in the field I chronied a few shots from my vsr-pro with different weights and was pretty suprised by the results.

anyway, it went something like this, rounded +-15fps or so:

.20 430 fps
.25 350 fps
.36 280 fps

I dont know anything about those crazy energy conversions and whatnot, but if a 430 fps on .20 g bb which is our general standard (450 is maximum) getting hit by .36 @ 420 seems pretty high for the M700... even on duster.