New G&G Gearbox design (G-Box)

[tintin1223456]

Wow it's got everything:
split gearbox
quick change spring
mosfet

IWA news 2013, G&G new version 2 modular gearbox - YouTube

I wonder when it will be available?

[Drakker]

Originally Posted by tintin1223456

Wow it's got everything:
split gearbox
quick change spring
mosfet

IWA news 2013, G&G new version 2 modular gearbox - YouTube

I wonder when it will be available?

Everything? Where's the electric cutoff that prevents dry fire? Where are new mags design that don't waste BBs when reloading? PTWs and the new Marui and KWA systems have had those for a while.

This is merely another split gearbox design that brings absolutely nothing new to the table.

This is 2013, why should we settle for a copy of an old ICS design?

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Drakker

Everything? Where's the electric cutoff that prevents dry fire? Where are new mags design that don't waste BBs when reloading? PTWs and the new Marui and KWA systems have had those for a while.

This is merely another split gearbox design that brings absolutely nothing new to the table.

This is 2013, why should we settle for a copy of an old ICS design?

Because it would represent a substantial improvement (in some ways) on G&G's current lineup without incurring the rather large switchover costs (both in fabrication and for customers existing equipment investments) to new magazines and a lot of other things. They are making a bet that an incremental improvement will be a good balance between new capital investments and convenience to customers.

To put your line another way: "This is 2013, copying and improving incrementally is good".

[MaciekA]

Innovation is always good.

The biggest market for airsoft guns (USA) is still partially in the stone age when it comes to high-end vs. low-end product differentiation. Marketing a high end, higher-priced product in a veritable OCEAN of products that can claim high end status simply by stating "full metal gearbox, full metal body" is very difficult. Watch any Evike or Airsplat video and the keywords "full metal gearbox" , "full metal body" are going to be thrown in there when necessary to differentiate something as one notch above the garbage tier. As an airsoft manufacturer, how do you cut through the noise and deliver something almost everyone can understand makes your product better? I guarantee you it isn't a planetary gearbox. That's for us enthusiasts. Various companies have taken stabs at differentiating themselves through licensing, warranties, claims of LiPo-ready, etc.

The majority of paying customers are not sophisticated technical buyers. Most of them are still pretty much parents of the children who will use the product. In this environment, you need to pick your battles carefully if you want to move up a notch in perceived product sophistication but want to avoid going bankrupt when Chinese companies destroy you in the primary buying event of the year -- Christmas. G&G would be foolish to transition an entire line of products from their current design to an ICS-style design all in one go unless they had tangible marketing bullet points to hand to their retail and marketing partners globally.

This design update could be used to market two major tangible features that can actually be marketed by their sales partners to people who don't understand the internals of gearboxes:

1) A convenient spring change feature -- a big win and easy to market.

2) The ability to one-up companies like KWA by *actually* moving towards "LiPo readiness" with the installation of a MOSFET.

G&G works with re-branding partners like Umarex who are offering warranties, so actual benefits arise from making the product fundamentally more reliable (MOSFET protects trigger) and easier to service or maintain (split gearbox is a huge win here).

The dry-fire design and new mag designs are going to have to remain something for the Otaku crowd who is willing to pay very big bucks for a feature that has very very marginal utility for a market which at purchase time is perhaps 99% invested in hi-caps... Think about it.

[HKGhost]

With all the proprietary parts in this gun, I doubt many company with support it like Ares. Kinda cool innovations but it's just an ICS with more parts that you can't easliy replace. The standard is and will always be TM. The WE Katana in my opinion is the much better choice due to them sticking with TM standard parts. There is no benefits to this design, other than maybe the PTW like mosfet. They should have just left the pistol grip TM spec as it's not something that requires a quick take down. And I don't think it will hold the lower gearbox as solid as the standard. I can already see all the guys out on the field dropping their guns while still holding onto the pistol grip. That trigger guard locking system to hold the motor isn't that solid (or at lease that's what it seems).

[Drakker]

Your answer makes a lot of sense, commercially speaking, and I agree with what you advance. But as a customer, I am not touching this. Too little, too late.

Originally Posted by MaciekA

Innovation is always good.

I will simply comment on the part where I disagree... this is NOT innovation. Far from it, it is catch-up from a late player at best. All companies use the word innovation all the time, but it is so overused that over time it has become a synonym merely with very small, nearly unnoticeable incremental upgrades.

There is zero innovation in the new G&G gearbox, they are simply playing catch-up with other players on the market.

[THe_Silencer]

Glad to see everyone jumping on the ICS bandwagon, it's about damn time! I personaally am not excited for this because this doesn't bring anything new to the table and I loath proprietary parts. Much more excited for this: Airsoft-News.EU - IWA 2012 Video Report - Airsoft Systems ASAR AEG Presentation - YouTube

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Drakker

Your answer makes a lot of sense, commercially speaking, and I agree with what you advance. But as a customer, I am not touching this. Too little, too late.

I am with you on the hesitation to adopt a product like this unless it comes out strong and all cylinders firing at once. That's pretty hard to pull off in a market with this many accessories and parts and aftermarket players.

On the other hand, hopefully we are not doomed to Marui Stasis forever.

I think your analysis may be an indication of how customers will react too.

Interestingly enough, the changes I wish every manufacturer would make would have huge positive effects... and yet be incremental to us ASC'ers and virtually invisible to the average customer, and a drag on cost.

If I could get that wish granted industry-wide, it would be to correct AoE, install MOSFETs, perform better shimming (bevel-pinion), and drop Tamiya industry-wide.

To me, the features we're looking at here from G&G are marketable, but they are gimmicky from the viewpoint of someone like myself, who is more interested in durability, reliability, performance.

[Drakker]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

I am with you on the hesitation to adopt a product like this unless it comes out strong and all cylinders firing at once. That's pretty hard to pull off in a market with this many accessories and parts and aftermarket players.

On the other hand, hopefully we are not doomed to Marui Stasis forever.

I think your analysis may be an indication of how customers will react too.

Interestingly enough, the changes I wish every manufacturer would make would have huge positive effects... and yet be incremental to us ASC'ers and virtually invisible to the average customer, and a drag on cost.

If I could get that wish granted industry-wide, it would be to correct AoE, install MOSFETs, perform better shimming (bevel-pinion), and drop Tamiya industry-wide.

To me, the features we're looking at here from G&G are marketable, but they are gimmicky from the viewpoint of someone like myself, who is more interested in durability, reliability, performance.

And with this, I totally agree. If you don't know what is inside, you will never see the difference, it will still sound like a sewing machine, it will still not function like the real thing (fake bolt catch, fake charging handle, etc), it still uses an outdated magazine design, it still dry fires. While it is a step in moving away from the original Marui design, it brings nothing new in term of functionality (well, the quick change spring is nice for players who want to have only one gun, but its been done before). There's absolutely no reason to sell your current AEGs and buy this new design.

[tintin1223456]

Originally Posted by Drakker

Everything? Where's the electric cutoff that prevents dry fire? Where are new mags design that don't waste BBs when reloading? PTWs and the new Marui and KWA systems have had those for a while.

This is merely another split gearbox design that brings absolutely nothing new to the table.

This is 2013, why should we settle for a copy of an old ICS design?

Oh, I didn't even know those features existed. In terms of performance, I guess there is nothing new. In terms of ease of maintenance, I think there is considerable improvement. If I'm in the market for a new AEG, or I'm making a recommendation for someone new to airsoft, why would I consider an AEG with the standard V2 gearbox? All these split gearbox, quick change spring designs just make sense.

[HKGhost]

Originally Posted by tintin1223456

Oh, I didn't even know those features existed. In terms of performance, I guess there is nothing new. In terms of ease of maintenance, I think there is considerable improvement. If I'm in the market for a new AEG, or I'm making a recommendation for someone new to airsoft, why would I consider an AEG with the standard V2 gearbox? All these split gearbox, quick change spring designs just make sense.

A reason why you shouldn't recommend something like this to a new player is, if something breaks, will he be able to replace it? If he wants to change the looks, will there be part support for it? Just because something has a quick change this and that, it doesn't mean it's better than what's been tested and true. There's nothing on this gun that's considered an improvement. It's all been done before and G&G is playing catch up.