[Sequential]

Originally Posted by e-luder

Oooh. A debate!!
I like where this is going...

In the case of pistols, there's no such thing as "unnecessary wear" as it pertains to the slide to frame rails. It's just the nature of machines to create such wear.

In fact, my most preferred way of fitting a slide onto a frame is essentially, racking a slide a million times to wear each other out so they smoothen each other out. But that's just me...

A "rattling slide" has very little to do with gas efficiency. What makes an airsoft pistol "gas efficient" is the internal mechanisms and how they react to the power source. That is, does the blowback unit trip the disconnector too late? does the piston head seal properly? DOes the recoil spring have too much tension? Doesn't the floating valve close too late? Things like that.

You can see an example of this is found here with this gun of mine:
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=172777

Admittedly, this gun does have a "rattling slide". This is because of the particular 1911 frame assembly set up and how the chosen 2011 slide interacts with it. THe slide spacer that I needed to put in there to make the two compatible is identical to the 5.1 Gold's frame rails.

However, the hammer mech and blowback unit that i put together targeted the goal of emptying a 40rd single stack stack mag. There's a video of the gun in action somewhere in that thread that demonstrates it clearing that 40rds mag with ease (well, there was actually only 34 BBs in that mag but I dry fired the shit out of it afterwards).

At it's very core, the most after effect a "rattling slide" will impede is the action of the slide and how smooth it is. That is, is the slide moving in parallel the rails or it is coming in crooked such that it makes the action...terrible (for lack of a better term).

On the point of accuracy, if you can't shoot a 50feet target, then it's likely that it has more to do with the hop up unit and barrel assembly than the actual slide. Up until the BB exits the muzzle, everything external is stationary with the exception of the hammer. That means that the barrel has not yet moved or began to move to it's tilting position until the BB has left the barrel. Which means, everything else that occurs after that (the action) is completely irrelevant to the accuracy output.

Continuing on with that 1911 of mine mentioned above, even with that rattling slide, the point of aim and point of impact remained true to each other. THe groupings that came out of that gun were the same as N-Force's results with the 5.1 Gold at 45ft. THis is because even though the gun sports a "rattling slide", the slide always came back to it's natural resting place after it was shaken, drawn out, fired repeatedly and what not. The point is, the inner barrel's point of aim never shifted up, down, left, right, diagonal regardless of the position of the slide.

Now let's say that my inner barrel was shifting all over the place somehow inside my outerbarrel but my slide was like the tightest virgin ever. Guess what happens to my shots?

The rattling slide shouldn't worry you. The rattling of the Inner barrel inside the outer barrel should (in terms of accuracy).

And if the slide REMAINS on one side of the gun, not rattling but just stuck so that the frame and slide are no longer parallel, then that is a broken pistol and have no business being on the field. lol.

...again. Isn't this what I just said?

I am sorry that I misunderstood this.

You know what an ignorant statement is?

When a guy who owns an Airsoft Surgeon GRP tells me that his STEEL frame has 0 (ZERO) wear on his frame after thousands of rounds.

I'm not knocking your work, Seq.
But don't forget what your frame is made out of...

I'm not here to debate about another beaten to death topic. Nor am I here to compare who does better work on building a Custom Hi-Capa as I know what works for me and your level of acceptance to tolerances might not be the same as mine.

Of course you rack a slide a million times with the frame to wear each other out but that is only if you have a similar brand lower frame and slide. Most slides from other companies outside of the premium grade brands (Surgeon/NOVA/PROG4) like Shooters Design, 5KU, Creation tend to fit loose and rise up. Sometimes the slides don't even fit at all and require some serious modifications.

My original point was if someone wanted to slap on an after-market slide from those brands aside from the premium grade brands you are going to run into more problems since they slimmed down the frame on the Gold Match version.

If you start with the 5.1 with the regular made frame, you are more likely able to run into less problems (since most after-market slides are modelled on the original 5.1 design) and at least get some good use out of the original frame before it goes kaput. That being said, I did say that the original frames are no good for building a "race-gun".

When building a custom race gun I would say every piece plays an important role, you can't have a loose slide and say just cause the barrel is bone solid your accuracy wouldn't be affected. The inner barrel shifting issue can be addressed easily like you pointed out (you even made that make shift spring and o-ring to guide it), you don't need to buy a gold match just for the sake of a inner barrel support.

You make a good argument about gas efficiency by asking questions like "blowback unit trip the disconnector too late? does the piston head seal properly? Does the recoil spring have too much tension? Doesn't the floating valve close too late?" surely enough these are all good questions to ask, but the most important thing is keeping the weight of the upper frame light. Meaning using a lightweight BBU, plastic loading nozzle, plastic floating valve etc. Then after you can ask the questions you had mentioned.

I would say a loose slide/frame is more important than that of a inner barrel guide. A overly lubricated hop-up rubber, regardless of how rock solid your inner barrel will throw your aim off completely. Or minor calibrations on your hop-up, or the dial coming loose upon the initial blowback action.

In your Marui 1911A1, I wouldn't have gone with Creation. But that's just me. I'm not knocking your work either E. But I like to tend to stay far away from Creation.

This debate is going no-where. I am done replying to this. As, if anyone were to build a custom "race-gun" / Hi-Capa they would already know the key points we have both pointed out. We could talk about this for months back and forth and still have no outcome. You do you, and I'mma do me.

Cheers.