Quote:
Originally Posted by lVlittens
Addressing mess once more: From what I have seen as a referee paintballers can be just as lazy as airsofters but generally, airsofters tend to be afraid of getting dirty. Atleast the ones around me do. (Which to me drives me crazy with confusion, if i'm not sweaty and dirty by the end of the day I didn't have a good time)
Addressing Range (This is my favorite argued topic)
Lets talk about EFFECTIVE range guys. First off, How far you can shoot means absolutly nothing in either games. The only thing that matters is how far you can shoot and have a player call their hit.
If you swear your hop up can help you shoot 100 yards (I don't believe it sorry) That's cool. But will the player even feel the hit? Let alone call it.
If your effective range is 50 yards and a paintballs effective range is 50 yards. What is the real difference in range other than you have a hop up to help the bb fly slightly straighter than a paintball? Effective range is effective range. It's completely reliant on how far a hit can be acknowledged or the paint breaks.
And I can tell you from first hand experience at 25 yards people are either down right cheating or they just aren't feeling the hits.
Food for thought on that.
The argument with the hop up is a argument I have to admit I don't know much about. But I have been learning more about it. So lets touch on hop ups.
A hop up is a way you can compensate for the trajectory by putting a back spin on your bb. However, you can also send the bb into an arc using the hop up(done this before. Not sure if fluke or naw) If you get your hop up just right you can force the bb into a backspin that carries the bb in a straighter flight path.
However this comes at a cost.
You loose muzzle velocity first off. And second off I can tell you from seeing it as a ref when the bb drops off, it drops off hard. It isn't an arc. Because as previously read, the backspin helps carry the bb further and flatter even at lower velocities.
Unfortunately this affect can cause the perception of cheating. As you saw the bb "Hit him" when really it dropped off before the target.
And again the subject of hop ups is new to me, but this is my current gatherings.
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That's great input
Firstly, I agree to the maturity bit. It's a matter of what company you keep, and there are some pretty hillbilly and retarded airsoft groups out there.
Also, I fucking agree about the "afraid to get dirty part" to some extent.
Manitoba and Sask have THE MOST hardcore airsofters in the prairies. They play in -15 to +40 weather, extreme humidity, high winds, rainstorms, snow, mud, marsh, thick mosquito soup, swarms of ticks that would bring down a moose, and carpets of infectious poison ivy. They also have some of the poorest players, which brings me to my next point;
The rich airsofters tend to play less.
You buy a couple $2000 PTWs, a $9000 NVG/helmet/sordin setup, $500 proper softshell, all the gear you might need for any weather condition. And then you only play when in ideal weather conditions.
There are many geared out airsofters that don't make appearances past october.
But I think harsh weather is the BEST time to play airsoft lol
As for range, agree on the part about effective range, BUT that being said my systema PTW shoots 260ft, and it's effective to 260ft. At 100ft I can shoot a heel sticking out from a corner. And it's certainly not the only one in the country that can do that either.
My pistol shoots about 160ft, and is effective to 140ft.
The backspin on, and weight of the BBs increases their accuracy by a ridiculous amount.
Granted, there is some truth to your statement; most AEG's do tend to fall into the 80-140ft effective, 160-240ft max category. Not everyone has the money to upgrade, or has access to a guntech that's capable of making your gun shoot amazing.
The places where airsoft guns LOSE accuracy, are:
-selecting ammo that's too light
-having a poor grade hop rubber, or an ineffective type
-having dirt, corrosion, bends, roughness, or inconsistent bore in the barrel
-having a poor air seal
-mechanical play in fitments; like hop chamber to inner/outer barrel, inner barrel to outer barrel, air nozzle, etc
-having poor repetitive play; like in the hop arm. If it doesn't move by the same amount every shot, you'll be inconsistent
-bad aim.
-The freaking wind. A major issue to having such light ammo, is that past the 200ft mark, the BBs have lost so much forward momentum that small gusts of wind can throw your shots off by a few feet. This can be counteracted by tilting your gun, and having the hopup work against the wind to maintain a straight trajectory. However small, random gusts of wind will still affect your flightpath.
The ideal setting for your hop, is to have a flat trajectory with no "hump" in the flight path, and it hits the ground in a predictable manner. If the BB flays out in a random direction at the end of a straight flight path, it just means you need to use heavier ammo.
As for the fps drop, it's not nearly as big as you might think. If a gun shoots 400fps with just enough hop to prevent the BB from rolling down the barrel, it could shoot either 390fps or 410fps with the hop properly applied. Guns that are overvolumed at the cylinder have been known to actually GAIN fps by increasing the pressure of the hop up (as this causes pressure to build behind the BB).
Guns with Rhop are even less affected by any fps drop due to the lower pressure applied.
As for the "perception of cheating", the same could be said of not having hopup. The fact is the BB has traveled so far and slowed down so much that it's hard to tell if you hit or not.
The only way to get the BB out that far to start with is to apply backspin, but the backspin isn't causing the BB to slow down any faster.
Heavier ammo will lose it's momentum faster than light ammo, but regardless, shit is not moving fast at 250ft lol
Depending on your setup, the drop at the end of the flight path can be pretty gradual instead of a straight drop, but even if you hit someone at 260ft, it IS entirely possible they just won't notice. That's something we have to live with, so it's understandable if it does happen. I'm personally not going to call someone a cheater for not calling a shot to the back of their shemagh at 260ft.
I guess in paintball it would be similar to a ball not breaking at the limit of your range.
If people aren't calling their hits at 25 yards, they ARE downright cheating. At only 75ft it would be very obvious being hit by a 280fps gun, let alone anything upgraded. Gear hits (1000D nylon) under about 180-200ft tend to make a very distinct "pop" when they hit, so if you can't see the BB hit, you can usually tell by the sound.
I totally agree it's much easier to cheat in airsoft, but we do (obviously) ban people who blatantly cheat.
Another issue that arises from not marking your target, is people who call your hit for you. We've got this one guy in my area that's been banned from almost every club for calling everyone's hits. Basically he just calls it by where he aims, not by where the BB actually hits. The irony is, he doesn't always call his own hits.
I'd be more than happy to explain any technical questions you might have about airsoft guns!
