[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by c3sk

If anything I am over critical of my gear.

I have had the worst luck with Systema Rifles, from the original 07 CK's, to Factory, to 08 upkit's being a stupid waste of money which made me abandon the entire system for 2 years.

The VUKs were only intended to be used on a gun 1 time. The performance and safety feature upgrades are well worth the money.

I am not sure to what you are referring to as being a waste of money.

They were expensive then, and they are still expensive now.. my Team member's 2012 evolution PTW ran him about $2,500.00 and it was plagued with problems which needed to be corrected, in the end he was up to the price of an FCC rifle having the motor swapped out just to get the @&^$ing rifle to cycle.

There is only 1 problem with a Systema that will cause it not to cycle, and that is the motor. You can get a brand new 2012 with a Rewound armature for well under $2500 with a modified hopup. The performance andvantages leave the FCC way, way behind, snd for alot more money.

My only saving grace was when I purchased a DTT custom M4 from Double Tap Tactical, and it revitalized my faith in the PTW system, however it was still plagued by the same old Systema design flaws caused by low quality metals being used, and practically non existant customer support. Thankfully DTT pointed me in the direction of FCC. I switched over to using FCC parts, replaced everything. My PTW now runs smoother, quieter, and no longer has issues with moisture due to our temperate climate conditions here in Southern Ontario.

The only materials deficiencies between FCC and Systema are in the Systema receivers. In every other way, Systema has far better quality materials and surface treatments on their gear train. As proof of this, look at a Systema gearbox with 250,000 rounds and then look at one that has FCC gears installed with only a few thousand rounds. The wear on the FCC gears is striking.

As far as being quieter, not even close. I have several guns up here with a mix of pure Systema to pure FCC, with a smattering of parts mixed throughout. The Systema guns are noticeably quieter and have a more authoritative SNAP!! when fired. We compared this two weekends ago amongst a coupke teams of experienced and long-term PTW users.

I've had a FCC Motor winding fail, a FCC hop up malfunction and a FCC pinion gear strip, and have documented these problems on this forum. Yet due to the warranty and customer support I suffered no game downtime, and it didn't cost me a dime, just the time it took to write an email explaining the problem. When those problems occurred on my 07 PTW, I was down waiting weeks for parts, and roughly 700 dollars in the hole after upgrading to the 08 upkit and hopup/barrel assembly.

Systema has not exactly been the benchmark of good customer service. Warranty is nice, for sure.

For me, that extra bit of cash has been a worth while investment. I promptly offloaded all my Systema stuff shortly after and have never once looked back.

For me, the extra cash is nowhere near worth the investment. I can take any beat up $700 used Systema and for a small investment in parts and a few hours labour make it a better performer than any FCC rifle. I have seen their construction and how they assemble the little things and there has been nothing to convince me that they have better QC, in fact, quite the opposite. If it was found in my gun, it was found in others, as another convenient review of a 416 has recently shown.

I have already spent more than a few hours labour on a $2900 gun just to get a minimum basic performance that FCC could have and should have done at the factory. It is really very easy to do, the only reason it wasn't done is because they either don't know, don't care, or have let profit direct quality. Neither of these attributes makes me feel any better.

If your hopup sucks, get a more precise jig, teach your people to assemble them properly, the costs of not doing apit are nowhere near worth it. As FCC grows, and it will, they are going to get caught in the same labour/tolerance/QC crunch that all companies must face. When you are small, you can afford attention to detail, when you are big, you can not.

Without criticism from experienced users and modifiers like me, FCC is not going to learn from their mistakes, and are not going to be motivated to create a better product, or at least one which meets the expectations of the consumer.

The only three bitches I have ever had about Systema has been their hopup, which I can remedy, their motor, which I send to England to be rewound, and their body, which has never caused me any issues in hundreds of thousands of rounds, but has for many others. The price difference to remedy all those is still way less than an FCC, the reliability, compatibility, smoothness of operation and consistancy are miles, miles ahead of the FCC.

I realize you guys are in a retail scenario with FCC, and my assessment is probably the last thing you want to hear, but you need to step back and look objectively at the whole picture. As much as I wanted an FCC 416 (ask Chris about that), the hype has not lived up to the reality. My sincerest hope that an honest and forthright forensic analysis of their product will bring to light issues for FCC to rectify, should they chose to do it. These are not big issues per se, but can very easily become that and the obvious performance shortfalls are factory rectifiable.

In essence, I have thrown down the gauntlet to FCC. Make a better product.