Quote:
Originally Posted by e-luder
Hey guys,
Just wanted to get some input on some quickdraw techniques from an holstered position specifically in an open class shooting competing and in-game where you have a primary drawn but need to switch to the secondary pistol.
Suggested stances?
Suggested trigger pull weight?
Suggested holster?
Fast target acquisition techniques?
Cmore/MRDS vs iron sights?
Wrist rotation techniques?
Breathing techniques?
etc...
I timed myself last night with an average of about 2.5seconds on a REACTIVE side as opposed to being the instigator (<==the guy who shoots first). And I can't get any faster at it. I've been doing some exercises over the past couple of weeks of target acquisition and wrist techniques with Glocks and 1911 with various sight pictures and I can't break the 2.5 mark. Shot accuracy is fairly consistent but I can still fine tune my gun with a few upgrades.
I suppose in a Shooting competition your always on the reactive-quick-to-the-gun side but in a game where your primary fails (hypothetically speaking) and your opponent has a bead on you first and puts you in a reactive state, what techniques do you employ for a fast draw?
I'm running one of those taco holsters with Glocks and open-class basic 1911.
Any suggestions?
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2.5 seconds is a tad on the slow side. What are you doing in those 2.5 seconds?
I just timed myself with two setups, starting with hands at my side:
Safariland ALS Hip (Paddle) Holster
Mounted just behind the hip bone.
1911
1.24 second reaction time
0.22 second double tap
Steps from beep: Disengage ALS safety, draw weapon, disengage safety lever, fire.
101 Holsters Kydex Hip Holster (Raven Concealment Systems style)
Note: This holster does not have a mechanical safety, and would not be a legal holster under IPSC rules.
Mounted just behind the hip bone.
Kimber Warrior
0.97 second reaction time
0.17 second double tap
Steps from beep: Draw weapon, disengage safety lever, fire.
Using my Ghost holster, I could probably shave at least another quarter second off the time.
My times are slow compared to the pros. The fastest ones can draw and get a sight in less than 0.7 seconds.
A Taco holster is the wrong holster to use for a number of reasons. Mostly, because it encloses the pistol too much - especially for an Open Division pistol, which has a longer muzzle (compensator), and the optics. A lot of potential snag points are presented.
My suggestions regarding your requested recommendations (this is what works for me - each person is different, and they may find something that works better for them.)
Suggested stances:
Isoceles
Suggested trigger pull weight:
For open division, go as light as you can without the pistol being unsafe. In general, airsoft pistols already have an extremely light trigger. However, they can be tuned to hair triggers with a very short pull, and barely 1 oz in pull weight. Regardless, training will compensate for any trigger jerk, even with a very heavy pull. It's not so much the weight that matters (it helps), but technique is more important. Your pull should always be straight to the back, and with the tip of your finger. Using the joint of your finger can potentially pull the pistol to one side. Using the joint of your finger is a military practice for their own reasons.
Suggested holster:
For an open division race gun setup, I can only recommend the Ghost Holster. There are a few variations of this from other manufacturers, but they are essentially all based on the same mechanical concept. These are the fastest holsters you can get, but you have to remember to engage the lock whenever you are not on the firing line. Otherwise, you risk knocking the gun right out of the holster. With that said, other holsters can let you draw extremely quickly (as I showed with my above times). Having a mechanical lock retention is personal preference. It can add security, at the expense of slower draw times. Some lock systems are faster than others. Covered holsters like the ones I mentioned above, are great for skirmishing, as they cover the gun and help protect it from bumps, scratches, dirt, etc. A race holster would be poor for this. However, if you are running an open division setup, you won't be able to find any covered holsters that can also enclose a compensator and optics. Especially if it is a frame mounted optic such as a CMore. You may have luck if your setup uses a slide mounted mRDS, such as a Doctersight. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what style of holster you want to use for your purposes, and what your budget allows. If it were me, my open division pistol and race holsters would never be on the field for a skirmish or milsim. For those situations, I have other pistols that fall in the Standard Division, Carry Class, whatever you call it (depends on the discipline), and I have enclosed holsters appropriate for each one. If I'm wearing armour, then I'll ditch the hip holster and resort to my drop leg.
Fast target acquisition techniques:
This... I can not tell you properly over the internet. You need to attend a course, so that you can be monitored. Get 1-on-1 instruction. If you pick up bad techniques now, and continue practising with these bad techniques, they will become bad habits that will be harder to break later on down the road. In general, most competitive shooting courses will tell you the basic draw technique as follows (hands starting from side):
- Your support hand should always mirror your weapon hand. This creates balance.
- Your holster will dictate how you grip your gun. But make sure you have a solid grip on the pistol before drawing.
- After drawing, keeping your arms tucked in, raise the front sight to your plane of sight, while maintaining a safe muzzle direction (some ranges will not allow you to point your pistol straight up. Keep it within 45 degrees of horizontal. Less is better.) This should be occuring on your center line. Your support hand should meet the weapon hand and your two-handed grip should take place here.
- While keeping your eye on the front sight, and the front sight on your target at all times, punch your hands out. This process will raise the rear sight up, to meet the front sight.
- Once you have a proper sight picture, fire.
- Trigger is pulled straight back. Not at an angle. Doing so will jerk the shot.
When practising, start it slow, so that the muscle memory builds. Build it properly. When you need to do it fast, it becomes reactive.
GRIP, is another issue, and just as important for fast target acquisition. Get instruction on this. I cannot tell you how to do it. Or, watch videos. Look at Todd Jarrett, for example. He only shoots Standard Division. Irons only. And typically, his times are faster than the fastest Open Division shooters running optics. It's all in his technique... and practice. Here's a great video on grip and draw. Watch his technique:
Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting. - YouTube
Search his name on Youtube and watch all his videos. He's a great instructor.
Cmore/MRDS vs iron sights:
Optics are a personal preference on which you use. Some have a larger sight picture than others. Some feature a lower sight-over-bore distance (lower is easier to get a natural sight).
As for optics vs irons... again, this is personal preference. Some people have a really hard time picking up the dot, because the pistol needs to be held lower. This makes shooting slower, if you're always hunting for the dot. Proper draw technique will reduce the chance of needing to hunt. Again, practice practice practice will create the muscle memory required to get a fast dot acquisition.
Having optics doesn't necessarily make you faster. It does if you get the practice. Otherwise, you can always be out shot by guys running irons.
"Wrist rotation techniques?"?
Sorry, I'm not getting what you mean by this. Rotating for what?
As for a transition to secondary from primary, I use a one point sling, and will drop the primary down my centre. Using my support hand to control the muzzle as I place it down, my weapon hand will be reaching for the pistol at the same time. Once drawn from the holster, I revert back to my basic technique, of meeting my hands at centre line (again, elbows still tucked in), and then punch out from there while picking up a sight picture while punching out.