Airsoft Canada

Airsoft Canada (https://airsoftcanada.com/forums.php)
-   General (https://airsoftcanada.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Bill C-21 to prohibit airsoft guns in canada (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=224208)

Canadian Psycho February 16th, 2021 12:54

Bill C-21 to prohibit airsoft guns in canada
 
Looks like airsoft has finally been added to the threat list of prohibitions along with many real steel firearms. Bill C-21 looks to add imitation firearms with mid-level velocity firearms that look exactly like a regulated firearm to the prohibited list. Prohibits all future sales, imports and etc.

Read up on it here:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx

I highly recommend writting your MP, the Safety minister, PM office, to voice your opposition to this. As well, id strongly recommend joining or donating to the CCFR or another firearms advocacy group to help the fight against these laws.

Matula February 16th, 2021 13:02

I would love to have a Canadian airsoft federation ... I already tried to call my MP. I highly recommend that the stores, the provincial federation, and all the airsoft players come together for a one-time push with data on how much airsoft revenue is in Canada and how many job losses it can affect. If we want to win, we have to stay together and prove that we are responsible and organized.

I also invite you to check how UK dealt with Airsoft over the last decade, a similar situation to us but different approach. Portugal also got the same issue...

http://ukara.org.uk

Polyshot February 16th, 2021 13:43

Looks like the Libtards took a page from how the Australians banned the gel blasters...

We must act fast!

Sash February 16th, 2021 14:13

I wrote about this happening back last spring, when they introduce OIC that banned real steel guns, somewhere on this forum. Now it happened.

@Matula, I'm afraid that airsoft sales numbers would be dwarfed by real steel sales and ammunition. Also, liberals use tactics of concealing facts that are not in their favor, such as the actual percentage of homicides during home violence used vs the illegal gun homicides. We should follow the same tactics and add airsoft sales to the real steel sales to indicate this.

You are right on consolidating effort. Join CCFR and at least you'll know that your hard-earned money will not be wasted. These guys proved by their actions that they are fitting for legal gun owners. Many from our team have been donating to the cause. Creating yet another underfunded federation, that will have dick hanging at half-past 6 against anti-gun lobby, is pointless.

baronsass February 16th, 2021 14:18

Grim reading... "modernizing language in the regulation and the Criminal Code with respect to prohibited weapons, devices, and ammunition to close gaps in the law." MODERNIZING is always a scary word. Ditto "GAPS". These words are used to make measures sound progressive and reasonable, when in reality they're totally oppressive. It's just a Bill at present, but make no mistake - the writing's on the wall, and the stupid people are trying really hard to win.

Sash February 16th, 2021 14:49

Quoted from: https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c...21-en.aspx#s03
Quote:

Ensure mid-velocity 'replica' firearms are prohibited

Update the Criminal Code to ensure that any device, including an unregulated airgun that looks exactly like a conventional regulated firearm (i.e., shoots over 500 feet per second), is prohibited for the purposes of import, export, sale and transfer.
Current owners may keep their 'replicas' but cannot transfer them to anyone else.
No further 'replica' firearms could be imported into, or sold/transferred in Canada.
This amendment does not affect other types of airguns that do not exactly replicate a conventional regulated firearm.

Limit the glorification of violence in firearms marketing and sales

Create an offence under the Firearms Act to prohibit business advertising that depicts, counsels or promotes firearms violence against a person, with a maximum penalty of two years imprisonment for a first offence and five years for each subsequent offence.

You may become a criminal if you install a spring that puts your "assault looking" piece of aluminum/plastic at above 500fps?

Also, no more photos and videos that promote games and depict shooting other players. You may end up locked up for at least 2 years. This may even touch Instagram and Youtube channels that monetize content.

amazing.

P.S. Just had a thought - the movie industry is a business, isn't it? People shoot each other movies left, right, and center. Are those businesses also going to be charged for including shooting guns in promo trailers?

Tristancast February 16th, 2021 15:00

It doesn?t look good... based on what is being discussed now is that any airsoft gun can be prohibited if the gun it replicates shoots above 500fps. A real HK416 shoots above 500fps and is prohibited... well your HK416 airsoft gun is also prohibited even if it ahoots below 500fps.

If it looks like a prohibited firearm, it?s prohibited.

Will have to keep following to make sure but it doesn?t look good

Donster February 16th, 2021 15:11

Quote:

No further 'replica' firearms could be imported into, or sold/transferred in Canada.
This amendment does not affect other types of airguns that do not exactly replicate a conventional regulated firearm.
I?m curious as to this wording.

Does this mean that the replica can?t be imported if it shoots over 500fps or does this mean ANY replica can?t be imported if it looks like a real gun?

Also, a BB weight isn’t specified. How do they determine 500fps?

.2g .3g? Lighter?

Pockets February 16th, 2021 15:53

I guess we are just going to have to do FlintLock airsoft...

https://www.redwolfairsoft.com/sprin...pring-gun.html

There will be big demand for Redcoat outfits now.

Drakker February 16th, 2021 16:17

Right now we use the fact that downgraded airsoft guns are still legal because they have the potential to fire over 366fps. Well, a lot of guns have the potential to fire over 500fps too. This looks like a gigantic problem in their wording to me.

TK-604 February 16th, 2021 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakker (Post 1853447813)
Right now we use the fact that downgraded airsoft guns are still legal because they have the potential to fire over 366fps. Well, a lot of guns have the potential to fire over 500fps too. This looks like a gigantic problem in their wording to me.

What I'm trying to figure out is do they mean a replica that shoots over 500fps or replicating something that shoots over 500fps. Cause all real firearms shoot over 500.

My opinion on the wording you mention is, they say "shoots over" not "can shoot over". For example, I can make a standard Honda Civic with over 600hp, but how long after startup will it even function. So it "can", but doesn't and shouldn't.

Donster February 16th, 2021 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakker (Post 1853447813)
Right now we use the fact that downgraded airsoft guns are still legal because they have the potential to fire over 366fps. Well, a lot of guns have the potential to fire over 500fps too. This looks like a gigantic problem in their wording to me.

This is my concern too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK-604 (Post 1853447815)
What I'm trying to figure out is do they mean a replica that shoots over 500fps or replicating something that shoots over 500fps. Cause all real firearms shoot over 500.

My opinion on the wording you mention is, they say "shoots over" not "can shoot over". For example, I can make a standard Honda Civic with over 600hp, but how long after startup will it even function. So it "can", but doesn't and shouldn't.

I hope this is the case and we can still have, import and enjoy our hobby so long as we stay below the 500fps limit.

bobotea February 16th, 2021 19:50

we need all fields and retailers to band together and form some kind of coalition against this ruling, something like UKARA would be great... I mean if it passes their out of business.

keegant February 16th, 2021 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobotea (Post 1853447822)
we need all fields and retailers to band together and form some kind of coalition against this ruling, something like UKARA would be great... I mean if it passes their out of business.

An association is a far cry away, but most of the retailers are asking their customers to talk to their MPs. That's as good as we can do for now.

bobotea February 16th, 2021 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by keegant (Post 1853447825)
An association is a far cry away, but most of the retailers are asking their customers to talk to their MPs. That's as good as we can do for now.

why is it up to the players? sure we can send messages to our MP's, I have. But ultimately the businesses are the ones who have the most money and stand the most to lose. We need their help as much as they need ours...

Chillyrabbit February 16th, 2021 21:25

C-21 changed the definition of replica firearm.

Quote:

replica firearm means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm that is designed or adapted to discharge a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second and at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm; (r?plique)
My understanding is this eliminates the airsoft "loophole". If your AEG looks like an M4 which is designed to fire above 500 FPS/5.7 joules and is not a firearm (shoots less than 500 FPS/5.7 joules) it is now a replica firearm, and replica firearms are prohibited devices which are illegal to possess.


the next section 3.2 really rams the point home.

Quote:

Certain firearms deemed to be prohibited devices

(3.*2) For the purposes of sections 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.*03, a firearm is deemed to be a prohibited device if

(a) it is proved that the firearm is not designed or adapted to discharge a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.*4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.*7 Joules; and

(b) the firearm is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, other than an antique firearm, that is designed or adapted to discharge a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.*4 m per second and at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.*7 Joules.
(a) Airsoft guns can't shoot more than 500 fps/5.7 joules check
and
(b) looks like a firearm that can shoot more than 500 fps/5.7 joules check

now a prohibited device.

oates76 February 16th, 2021 23:10

https://youtu.be/3P5I73L-K0U

Warderp February 16th, 2021 23:10

Best case scenario if this passes, anyone who has airsoft can keep playing with it, but any new players would be forced to use clearsoft lowers again.

spartan117 February 17th, 2021 00:43

"CCFR Message to the Airsoft Community

C-21 was tabled earlier today. It's mostly a gun bill, but the liberals have slipped in a section intended to close the loophole that allows milsim type airsoft guns in Canada. The time to bring the community together on this is now. Please Share."

https://youtu.be/3P5I73L-K0U

Donster February 17th, 2021 06:26

Is be curious if clearsoft will even be allowed if if they will say that it ?too closely resembles? a real gun

666 February 17th, 2021 06:30

Join CCFR! Spread the word! Those dudes been fighting the fight for a while now and need all the help they can get! Bunch of us already have paperweights thanks to most recent firearm ban. I don't personally want to add airsoft to my paperweight collection!
P.S. Another thing to keep in mind if you own any real steel handguns and I know bunch of people who play airsoft do. If C-21 gets passed and your mayor goes through with the city wide ban than you have 2 options. 1. Get rid of your handguns. 2. Move to a municipality that is not affected, not affected until another mayor gets elected and passes prohibition bylaw...

Swattiger February 17th, 2021 09:41

Very disappointing to see the Liberal do this again.

Most of the gun crimes involve illegal guns, but they just use the legal gun owners or airsoft as scapegoats, to show public they have done something, while hiding their complete inability to stop gun crimes.

A simple way to stop gun crimes is to double or triple the penalty or imprisonments. No need to make it so complicated.

I agree we should write to our MPs and reflect our opinion.

Razer February 17th, 2021 09:45

When the election is called, just make sure you vote for the Conservatives. Liberals/NDP/Bloc/Green all think airsoft is militia training (HOW DARE YOU CALL IT MILSIM?!?) and want to see it all banned.

Drache February 17th, 2021 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donster (Post 1853447811)
I?m curious as to this wording.

Does this mean that the replica can?t be imported if it shoots over 500fps or does this mean ANY replica can?t be imported if it looks like a real gun?

Also, a BB weight isn?t specified. How do they determine 500fps?

.2g .3g? Lighter?


If you have a BB gun or airsoft gun that resembles a real firearm, it will be prohibited! Full stop! Doesn't matter the velocity.

So the only airsoft you'll be seeing in Canada is if the body is clear. No more full black airsoft guns.

So stores won't be able to sell their current stock. You'll see the end of many airsoft stores because of this.

So even those BB/Pellet guns at places like Canadian Tire that look like a 1911, will become prohibited under that law.

666 February 17th, 2021 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache (Post 1853447847)
If you have a BB gun or airsoft gun that resembles a real firearm, it will be prohibited! Full stop! Doesn't matter the velocity.

So the only airsoft you'll be seeing in Canada is if the body is clear. No more full black airsoft guns.

So stores won't be able to sell their current stock. You'll see the end of many airsoft stores because of this.

So even those BB/Pellet guns at places like Canadian Tire that look like a 1911, will become prohibited under that law.

^
^
^
That.
Retailers will suffer, staff working for them will suffer, people who invested money into creating facilities for us to play in/properties to play on will suffer. Law abiding owners will suffer so on and so forth.
You will not be able to buy Daisy Red Ryder for your kids to plink with. Some pball markers will also go since they are made to look like real firearms. People who own real steel are being bend over for a couple of years now, so we know exactly how this can turn out when it comes to airsoft. JT can pull another OIC move he already pulled in May and have this crap passed in like 2-3 months. He walked over people's heads and had the law passed. Law that banned artillery, mortars, Javelins and other heavy ordinance ffs :) Good thing I sold all 15 of my Javelins, my RPG 7 and both 60mm mortars you know :) Eventually they might even go for real Enfields, K98s and Mosins and other bolt guns leaving us with shotguns. I can see Libs saying, well, you guys want to hunt, sure. In Canada one can take any animal we have here with a 12ga shotgun, you guys dont need to own anything else. Hand it over.

keegant February 17th, 2021 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobotea (Post 1853447827)
why is it up to the players? sure we can send messages to our MP's, I have. But ultimately the businesses are the ones who have the most money and stand the most to lose. We need their help as much as they need ours...

I hear you, but the businesses (even the largest retailers in Canada) don't have as much legal-burn-money as you might think.

The best thing a business can do is motivate its customers to vote and contact political figures. The government doesn't care about a single business crying at the doorstep, but thousands of people voting and taking part in the political system - might actually change something to our liking.

666 February 17th, 2021 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho (Post 1853447800)
Looks like airsoft has finally been added to the threat list of prohibitions along with many real steel firearms. Bill C-21 looks to add imitation firearms with mid-level velocity firearms that look exactly like a regulated firearm to the prohibited list. Prohibits all future sales, imports and etc.

Read up on it here:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx

I highly recommend writting your MP, the Safety minister, PM office, to voice your opposition to this. As well, id strongly recommend joining or donating to the CCFR or another firearms advocacy group to help the fight against these laws.

Maybe you should edit the title and give a bit more info because people who are not in the know might not care to click on something titled just "Bill C-21".

666 February 17th, 2021 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by keegant (Post 1853447851)
I hear you, but the businesses (even the largest retailers in Canada) don't have as much legal-burn-money as you might think.

The best thing a business can do is motivate its customers to vote and contact political figures. The government doesn't care about a single business crying at the doorstep, but thousands of people voting and taking part in the political system - might actually change something to our liking.

Everyone who cares should get involved, business, ordinary players, event organizers etc. People from CCFR tried to approach airsoft only crowd for a while now but there was little response. Now we all are on the same boat. Pballers, airsofters, real steel owners. More people join the movement = better chances of doing something about C-21!

Canadian Psycho February 17th, 2021 12:52

If this bill is going to be rejected, its going to take huge investments of time and money from everyone. Businesses have a lot at stake for sure, but the more people who contact politicians, who show the NDP and liberals that there will be consequences for putting this bill forword such as losing their position and riding, the better our chances. If we roll over and give up then i guarantee this bill will pass and our sport will be gone

666 February 17th, 2021 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho (Post 1853447857)
If this bill is going to be rejected, its going to take huge investments of time and money from everyone. Businesses have a lot at stake for sure, but the more people who contact politicians, who show the NDP and liberals that there will be consequences for putting this bill forword such as losing their position and riding, the better our chances. If we roll over and give up then i guarantee this bill will pass and our sport will be gone

Chances are NDP will not support this bill because they want confiscation, not restriction of storage/use rules. Bill is mainly aimed at firearms and that is what NDP wants totally gone. Good luck contacting MP's or especially Bill Blair. He will wipe his ass with your correspondence because he is one of biggest anti gun cooks on parliament hill who clearly stated his position years ago. All those individuals were already spammed by massive number of emails in the past, especially when C-71 was in works and after May 1st ban so they took measures. Your letters will most likely bounce. Somebody already tried today. Both emails didn't go through. Follow CCFR's instructions and let their people deal with it. They do have professionals on it. They have lawyers. You will be better off letting CCFR to create and send ONE piece of correspondence representing many people rather than trying to break through a concrete wall by having hundreds of people send emails. There will be time, could be months, C-21 could get amended like C-71 or scraped all together unless JT will pull total Hitler/Stalin like he did in May and violate all sorts of civil liberties by illegally passing a law.

baronsass February 17th, 2021 13:47

Just join the CCFR. They're already mounting the largest legal action ever against the gov on behalf of gun-folk. This action - by default - includes airsofters and paintballers who've now -like it or not - been lumped into the firearms community. It's $40 to become a member, and if you're inclined, you can contribute to their legal fund. Creating new/alternate/airsoft specific "movements" will only fragment opposition to this totally idiotic, and I daresay, dictatorial Liberal initiative.

Matula February 17th, 2021 14:21

Green Party was not against firearm during the last election. If you check their platform, it was just a simple regulation. Nothing comparable to the Liberal Party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razer (Post 1853447844)
When the election is called, just make sure you vote for the Conservatives. Liberals/NDP/Bloc/Green all think airsoft is militia training (HOW DARE YOU CALL IT MILSIM?!?) and want to see it all banned.


Matula February 17th, 2021 14:22

If you thought it was just to clean a gap. This is the slide shared by Bill Blair during his presentation:

https://pasteboard.co/JOOyDaX.jpg

bobotea February 17th, 2021 14:59

for those who dont speak french https://pasteboard.co/JOOMFbQ.png
*auto image translated from Matula's photo above

ripanu1 February 17th, 2021 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobotea (Post 1853447827)
why is it up to the players? sure we can send messages to our MP's, I have. But ultimately the businesses are the ones who have the most money and stand the most to lose. We need their help as much as they need ours...

It will take more than the players contacting MPs .The first ones contacting Our MPs should in fact be.1.Retailers 2.Importers 3.field operators. We can't dump this on the players to be the first to contact our MPs. It must be all the businesses first as they are the supply chain.I suggest we all get on board asap or we are done. We need to have a group backed by a couple of lawyers with all Canada's airsofters on board .We need numbers,because a hand full of people will not be enough. I am currently a member and supporter of CCFR and like earlier mentioned ...I suggest as many of you as possible do the same.

666 February 17th, 2021 15:41

In order to achieve any results this whole thing has to be well organized by people who already know what they are dealing with. Everyone needs to get together instead of acting on their own. Firearm community already tried to bombard government with emails and petitions. It dont work. We really tried. Now, hopefully we will have more people on board, people who support this non compliance movement. That's worse case result. Country wide peaceful non compliance was the only thing we were left with when it comes to real steel. Just peacefully refuse to surrender out stuff and see what government will do. CCFR came along and decided to fight for our rights.

666 February 17th, 2021 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripanu1 (Post 1853447865)
It will take more than the players contacting MPs .The first ones contacting Our MPs should in fact be.1.Retailers 2.Importers 3.field operators. We can't dump this on the players to be the first to contact our MPs. It must be all the businesses first as they are the supply chain.I suggest we all get on board asap or we are done. We need to have a group backed by a couple of lawyers with all Canada's airsofters on board .We need numbers,because a hand full of people will not be enough. I am currently a member and supporter of CCFR and like earlier mentioned ...I suggest as many of you as possible do the same.

Dude, I already said, try emailing them and see what happens because they all got bombarded over the years. I highly suspect emails with anything to do with our current words in them will get filtered out. Somebody tried sending out 2 today. Both bounced back. Politicians get tons of daily emails from gun owners. They just got used to it over the years and took measures.

666 February 17th, 2021 16:09

Only way I see it playing out in our favor is to drag law suit until ahole gets unseated during next election and person who is in their mind comes to power. After seeing years of abuse as a firearm/airsoft ower I'm not seeing any future unless it happens.

scottyfox February 17th, 2021 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobotea (Post 1853447864)
for those who dont speak french https://pasteboard.co/JOOMFbQ.png

I?m going to call bullshit on this. There is no way that is a GC slide. Replete with grammatical errors and as the completely wrong GC wordmark.
Misinformation helps nobody.

666 February 17th, 2021 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyfox (Post 1853447872)
I?m going to call bullshit on this. There is no way that is a GC slide. Replete with grammatical errors and as the completely wrong GC wordmark.
Misinformation helps nobody.

Pic is not real but intel is 100% is.

Kwokwai February 17th, 2021 17:35

Everybody, please read the bill for yourselves here via the English link:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx

About 2/3 of the way down it starts talking about replicas here:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c...21-en.aspx#s05

666 February 17th, 2021 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwokwai (Post 1853447875)
Everybody, please read the bill for yourselves here via the English link:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx

About 2/3 of the way down it starts talking about replicas here:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c...21-en.aspx#s05

Did. Trying to say what?

666 February 17th, 2021 17:49

By publicly posting some ideas are not not giving them a get out of jail free card. Your are giving government another thing to look at.

666 February 17th, 2021 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwokwai (Post 1853447875)
Everybody, please read the bill for yourselves here via the English link:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx

About 2/3 of the way down it starts talking about replicas here:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c...21-en.aspx#s05

By publicly posting some ideas are not not giving them a get out of jail free card. Your are giving government another thing to look at.

Kwokwai February 17th, 2021 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666 (Post 1853447878)
By publicly posting some ideas are not not giving them a get out of jail free card. Your are giving government another thing to look at.


666,

sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm addressing scottyfox's post as he had noted his skepticism about the contents of the earlier post so I was pointing him to read what's been posted directly.

666 February 17th, 2021 19:04

I was taling about my comment on a post. There were people who were giving ideas and messages we added. I was jumping between FB and ASC. There were people who were talking about bad things on FB and I spoke with them...

bobotea February 17th, 2021 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyfox (Post 1853447872)
I?m going to call bullshit on this. There is no way that is a GC slide. Replete with grammatical errors and as the completely wrong GC wordmark.
Misinformation helps nobody.

sorry its just an auto translate of the other guys photo, since he didnt post the powerpoint i just used photo translate of the slide, the info matches up with the GC website anyway so not sure why it matters. Just thought it was obvious that it was auto translated, not trying to spread missinfo.

*Here i found the English slide on CGN happy now? https://ibb.co/CmBCGBB

Snowstorm45 February 17th, 2021 21:44

Oh goddammit. Figures they'd go and try to sneak something in like this. We already went through this crap not even a decade ago, just leave us alone. :(

Metalsynth February 17th, 2021 22:23

I don't speak often here but right now seems like a good time to get this ball going.

Where are you at in the rest of canada on legally registered associations and/or federations?

We have 3 legal bodies in Quebec right now.

Association des joueurs de paintball et airsoft du Quebec
Federations airsoft du quebec
Federation airsoft sportive du quebec

I am the vice president of the association.

If we ever want some sort of legal traction, we will need to get better organised than the way we are now as a country.

Let me be blunt, right now the situation in QC regarding the federations is really wonky and in my opinion not what we need right now.

The only viable option in my opinion is the ccfr to get this C-21 crap out of the way and get our shit together.

We are currently doing this very thing through our paintball counterpart but we need to also have airsoft on this ball.

So.... where are you at with this?

If you are interested in this option, reach me on fb so I can hook you up with the prez

https://www.facebook.com/vpajpaq.francoislemay.3

tvw February 18th, 2021 00:58

https://youtu.be/LtjlD8v2SZc

666 February 18th, 2021 14:45

Lawyer is explaining how C-21 will affect airsoft and it's not looking good. Apparently in order to keep whatever we already have we would need to have a license to possess prohibited device. License that simply does not exist.https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid...ature=youtu.be

Sash February 18th, 2021 15:24

Think who you are voting for next time the election comes up!

Sash February 18th, 2021 17:28

I second what @666 and @Metalsynth are saying.

Organizing airsofters into a federation of some sort is going to produce only a fart into a puddle of water.

Instead of passing the responsibility to businesses, fields, god, whoever.... everyone who cares about the sport must do the following:
1. Pick up your wallet,
2. go to CCFR web site: https://membership.firearmrights.ca/...ual_membership
3. become a member.

It is $40 that will be spent by an organization that had already shown its teeth to the government by launching a massive lawsuit against the OIC. They already have experience dealing with this issue, and if they fail all others will follow with the highest degree of probability.

It is only $40. Each one of us buys crazy expensive upgrades to our guns that cost a number of times more. If we do not win this battle, we'll not be able to use those expensive upgrades at all, besides shooting raccoons and squirrels in the backyard. (even then you risk losing your toy and not get compensated)

tvw February 18th, 2021 17:59

Joined the fight today. In the pic there is the pricing info for the CCFR.

TAKE NOTE!

Student memberships are $20 / HALF PRICE.

Family memberships are $60 which includes your spouse and up to 4 children.

https://i.postimg.cc/66Mjjh7Z/20210218-155638.jpg

TheToastmaster February 18th, 2021 18:09

I really didn't think it would take something like this bill to drag me back to feeling passionate about the sport, after so long away.

For those who are interested, there is a petition you can sign, as well as other discussed actions.

http://chng.it/2McXdk6BYM

Ivanov February 18th, 2021 18:16

Ian Runkle posted his legal analysis of the bill as it pertains to air Airsoft.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2oIWs_h3Vc
Also here is the web page for the CCFR I strongly advise joining and donating.
https://firearmrights.ca/en/home/

ValaskaAirsoft February 18th, 2021 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pockets (Post 1853447812)
I guess we are just going to have to do FlintLock airsoft...

https://www.redwolfairsoft.com/sprin...pring-gun.html

There will be big demand for Redcoat outfits now.

Flintlocks shoot too fast, so they too are banned..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWdE...Xv3GmKo8wO%3A6

Dayton put up a video on House Gamers.

tvw February 18th, 2021 19:26

Ian Runkle Airsoft specific video.

https://youtu.be/q2oIWs_h3Vc

***LATE TO PARTY***

ValaskaAirsoft February 18th, 2021 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666 (Post 1853447868)
Dude, I already said, try emailing them and see what happens because they all got bombarded over the years. I highly suspect emails with anything to do with our current words in them will get filtered out. Somebody tried sending out 2 today. Both bounced back. Politicians get tons of daily emails from gun owners. They just got used to it over the years and took measures.

I e-mailed every single member of the NDP caucus today, none were bounced back. Tomorrow I will be writing the Block, and then over the next week I will do 20-25 Liberal MP's a day, and then I will begin calling offices. The worst thing is to do nothing as a player.

666 February 19th, 2021 05:57

Sun posted an article. https://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...r-new-gun-bill

venture February 19th, 2021 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyfox (Post 1853447872)
I?m going to call bullshit on this. There is no way that is a GC slide. Replete with grammatical errors and as the completely wrong GC wordmark.
Misinformation helps nobody.

That is a translation of the French government slide. Not the actual slide.

Matula February 19th, 2021 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666 (Post 1853447926)

I am just sad that they did not talk about the compromise that the industry can do. (Orange tip for example...).

Derpystronk February 19th, 2021 10:43

So I'm just chiming in here so you know what a lot of the community at large is doing outside of ASC:

We are currently in the process of organizing on a national level in order to best co-ordinate our responses. We are not only in talks with the CCFR but are working towards the onboarding every province.

A Petition to the House of Commons is already written, sponsored by a MP and is waiting publishing. This will be pushed out as soon as it is,

There will be a lot of different initiatives: one of the most important ones that is being worked on will be real world political activism and engagement. Working with campaigns in the real world to help get people seated is one of the most powerful things we can do as an individual. A dozen Airsofters showing up to help knock on doors can be the difference in a ridings election. This organization will be ramping up soon too.

Things are happening. If you want to get involved and do something more than writing a letter and hoping there will be plenty of opportunity to do that in the near future.

Drache February 19th, 2021 11:26

Just to throw my two cents in. Has anyone started to tackle this on a BUSINESS level? Find out how much Airsoft does for the economy. Get all the stores together to start figuring out how many businesses will go under, how many employees will be terminated?

Snerpydoodle February 19th, 2021 11:32

1 Attachment(s)
Ive noticed the bill states that they need to "exactly replicate" an actual firearm. So wouldnt an orange tip be enough to make it so that it did not "exactly replicate"?

As usual the law is poorly written.

666 February 19th, 2021 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snerpydoodle (Post 1853447939)
Ive noticed the bill states that they need to "exactly replicate" an actual firearm. So wouldnt an orange tip be enough to make it so that it did not "exactly replicate"?

As usual the law is poorly written.

It was said that orange tip/painting guns in bright colors, UK style, wont fly in Canada. Barrel tip of any real gun can also be painted orange. Plus, Libs dont really care about public safety because this bill is only aimed at law abiding owners. They are creating smoke screen in order to switch public attention from their f ups by saying, oh look, we are getting rid of these evil guns/bb guns to ensure you are safe!

XON50 February 19th, 2021 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache (Post 1853447938)
Just to throw my two cents in. Has anyone started to tackle this on a BUSINESS level? Find out how much Airsoft does for the economy. Get all the stores together to start figuring out how many businesses will go under, how many employees will be terminated?

Many firearm businesses in Canada have voiced their concerns ever since the May 1 ban. Its a $5 billion industry or more. The Liberal Party and Trudeau simply do not care at this point. Their goal is to look good on television and garner as many votes from cities like Toronto. There was a petition with almost 300,000 signatures against the ban that was petitioned by conservative MPs, the Liberals didnt blink an eye.

Bill C-21 is also a deterrent from Trudeaus abysmal attempts and failures at vaccinations for covid 19. The normies will eat it up while legal gun owners and now airsofters, suffer.

Snerpydoodle February 19th, 2021 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666 (Post 1853447940)
It was said that orange tip/painting guns in bright colors, UK style, wont fly in Canada. Barrel tip of any real gun can also be painted orange. Plus, Libs dont really care about public safety because this bill is only aimed at law abiding owners. They are creating smoke screen in order to switch public attention from their f ups by saying, oh look, we are getting rid of these evil guns/bb guns to ensure you are safe!

Is there anywhere we can read the actual words of the bill?

This has me super stressed out. I was just finally getting into the sport.

Drache February 19th, 2021 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snerpydoodle (Post 1853447939)
Ive noticed the bill states that they need to "exactly replicate" an actual firearm. So wouldnt an orange tip be enough to make it so that it did not "exactly replicate"?

As usual the law is poorly written.

Orange tip no, but completely clear receiver may be able to get around it.

666 February 19th, 2021 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snerpydoodle (Post 1853447942)
Is there anywhere we can read the actual words of the bill?

This has me super stressed out. I was just finally getting into the sport.

Watch the video that was posted on 4th page, couple of guys posted it, including me. Lawyer who happens to be firearm advocate is taking some of sections of C-21 apart and explains it in simple language. He is talking about orange tips, bright colors etc. Bill is online if you want to read it. Google Bill C-21.

tvw February 19th, 2021 13:13

^^^^


https://youtu.be/q2oIWs_h3Vc

Snerpydoodle February 19th, 2021 13:52

Well this is very upsetting. I was finally getting into the sport and just ordered my first gun since I was a teenager and had some chinese aegs. When I got clean off heroin 5 years ago and left the nightlife my social circle evaporated. I was excited to start making new friends and try out some of the new guns in recent years.

Now we would have to hope manufacturers would make special clear versions for Canada only or something that wont happen except in very small numbers.

I guess I will start writing mps. In my near decade as an addict being around some really terrible people I never once heard of or saw an airsoft gun being used in a crime.

I think our best bet is trying to find a middle ground. It wouldnt be a good precedent but requiring orange tips or something like requiring proof of membership in a club in order to purchase an realistic airsoft gun similar to how you need a gun club membership to transport a restricted firearm.

I (rightly so) lost my real guns due to my drug use and now its looking like soon even air guns will be taken from us.

rc_p120 February 19th, 2021 19:25

All I can say is support the CCFR and NFA or any large firearms organization that is fighting this, I don't care if you don't like real guns personally, we can't be divided and conquered. The current governments intent is not to be like Japan where airsoft is totally fine because firearms are banned, so get that fantasy out of your head. We're all in it together now!

CF_Seal February 19th, 2021 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derpystronk (Post 1853447934)
So I'm just chiming in here so you know what a lot of the community at large is doing outside of ASC:

We are currently in the process of organizing on a national level in order to best co-ordinate our responses. We are not only in talks with the CCFR but are working towards the onboarding every province.

A Petition to the House of Commons is already written, sponsored by a MP and is waiting publishing. This will be pushed out as soon as it is,

There will be a lot of different initiatives: one of the most important ones that is being worked on will be real world political activism and engagement. Working with campaigns in the real world to help get people seated is one of the most powerful things we can do as an individual. A dozen Airsofters showing up to help knock on doors can be the difference in a ridings election. This organization will be ramping up soon too.

Things are happening. If you want to get involved and do something more than writing a letter and hoping there will be plenty of opportunity to do that in the near future.

I am quoting Delta as a bump of sorts. It's good to share news articles, it's good to talk and discuss, it's good to write your MP.

However, not to be crass, but for you real steal guys you can have a look at the 50 page CGN threads that go back several years. None of this has resulted in any measurable reversal of policy, or change in position on any issue.

It's best to become politically active. As others in this thread have suggested, collaborative canvassing and activism efforts such as Delta's (for you ON folks) is the best way forward.

There was an article a couple years back about how the entire Liberal caucus was "terrified" at JT's proposed firearm legislation. And look at we have now. Why are they terrified? because we have the power to let people know about our great hobby. We have the power to cultivate change through political activism.

We need to act now.

DuffMan February 20th, 2021 03:05

For those who support the Liberal party or their friends, it's generally because you consider yourself to be centre-left. But Erin O'Toole's new Conservative party platform is VERY centrist and even MORE progressive than Trudeau's liberals in some ways. O'Toole wants to end fossil fuel subsidies, for instance, which Trudeau would never do. I'll leave a list below of 'who said it, Trudeau or O'Toole?' platform points for you.
But if ever there was a time to promote a very viable alternative to an administration that wants to ban airsoft guns and has ahd 7 major ethics scandals in 4 months (it's like, almost a quarter of all the Canadian political scandals list on wikipedia dating back to 1800s), it is now.

• Launch a study to find ways to extend Employment Insurance coverage to the self-insured and others not covered today
• Make domestic / intimate partner violence an aggravating factor in the criminal code so that it carries a tougher sentence and impose a mandatory minimum of 5 years for aggravated assault of a domestic / intimate partner
• Expand the Canada Child Benefit by $500 per month per child for the first year and $250 per month, per child for the second year for women with children living in women’s shelters to help them transition to more long-term housing
• Create a fund to incentivize educational institutions and private sector organizations to partner with women’s shelters to provide career training for the women they serve
• Harnessing the enthusiasm of Canada’s outdoor community by helping to fund the capital costs of volunteer-led projects to restore wildlife habits, enhance wetlands and preserve biodiversity
• Providing innovation incentives for the development and deployment of technologies to simplify the provision of clean water in smaller and remote communities
• Avoids focus on carbon only, and instead is scoped to capture ALL greenhouse gases, many of which are more powerful than carbon dioxide;
• Focuses on making industry pay [for carbon tax] rather than taxing ordinary Canadians, by forging a national industrial regulatory and pricing regime across the country
• Ends fossil fuel subsidies, a form of corporate welfare

Link to his platform:
https://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/u...Country-EN.pdf

Go out and campaign! A decent door knocking campaign can shift the vote by 10% or more!

sqr February 20th, 2021 13:55

Hello fellow Canadians and please join the CCFR to protect your rights. Next it may be your gas using vehicles.

https://youtu.be/3P5I73L-K0U

666 February 20th, 2021 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqr (Post 1853447973)
Hello fellow Canadians and please join the CCFR to protect your rights. Next it may be your gas using vehicles.

https://youtu.be/3P5I73L-K0U

Not that fast but it might happened. Like some people I know said, internal combustion engines will be made illegal, we will probably see cars that are computer operated made mandatory, besides ones used by the government.

Drache February 20th, 2021 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqr (Post 1853447973)
Next it may be your gas using vehicles.


As stands that will be hard to do considering all the logging and mining done on the middle of nowhere. Hard to charge electric vehicles in the middle of the bush without a giant gas chugging generator anyways.

sqr February 20th, 2021 18:46

Another reminder from the CCFR......together we are stronger.

https://youtu.be/MD4p6bT7Exg

sqr February 20th, 2021 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666 (Post 1853447978)
Not that fast but it might happened. Like some people I know said, internal combustion engines will be made illegal, we will probably see cars that are computer operated made mandatory, besides ones used by the government.

Regardless of when citizens should never lose their property including your airsoft items.

Drakker February 20th, 2021 20:57

Just saw the CTV report with pestobanana at Blackblitz, great job man, you come out as very professional. If only the other guys talking to the medias were as good as you. How we talk to the medias is probably the most important thing we as a community can do to raise awareness of this mess of a bill.

tvw February 20th, 2021 22:21

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/waterlo...stry-1.5317497

In regards to the post above.

Drache February 21st, 2021 08:08

I remember back in the day when Airsoft tried everything it could to distance itself from real firearms so that it wouldn't get pulled into something like this. As much as we tried it still happened. Sad really....

666 February 21st, 2021 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache (Post 1853448006)
I remember back in the day when Airsoft tried everything it could to distance itself from real firearms so that it wouldn't get pulled into something like this. As much as we tried it still happened. Sad really....

Ive been doing both, airsoft and real steel for like 15 years now. First they went after real guns, made me having bunch of paperweights, now they are going after another hobby I enjoy - airsoft, During last 2-3 years I havent been actually puling a triger. I've been on comms/admin duties during multi day events. Some times I make freaking soup for them after they come back...

666 February 21st, 2021 11:12

Anything that shoots over 500fps becomes a firearm. For which you would need a PAL. One that I have. If C 21 gets passed I wont be able to legally use airsoft. I do not have a prohibited license nor I will be able to obtain one. If C-21 gets passed - airosft will be moved to prohibited category. No if's or but's. No legal way to go around it, no back "2000's" market. PROHIBITED with a possibility of getting criminally charged. Think about it.

666 February 21st, 2021 11:25

After they banned couple of guns last year I called RCMP just for a fuck of it. Asked how do I register. They had no idea what I was talking about.

Pockets February 22nd, 2021 15:35

Exactly, they can come to you and take your airsoft guns if (WHEN) they want to, and nothing you can do about it.

The best we can hope for is for a government buyback (just giving us our tax money back) on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666 (Post 1853448011)
Anything that shoots over 500fps becomes a firearm. For which you would need a PAL. One that I have. If C 21 gets passed I wont be able to legally use airsoft. I do not have a prohibited license nor I will be able to obtain one. If C-21 gets passed - airosft will be moved to prohibited category. No if's or but's. No legal way to go around it, no back "2000's" market. PROHIBITED with a possibility of getting criminally charged. Think about it.


CF_Seal February 23rd, 2021 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derpystronk (Post 1853447934)
So I'm just chiming in here so you know what a lot of the community at large is doing outside of ASC:

We are currently in the process of organizing on a national level in order to best co-ordinate our responses. We are not only in talks with the CCFR but are working towards the onboarding every province.

A Petition to the House of Commons is already written, sponsored by a MP and is waiting publishing. This will be pushed out as soon as it is,

There will be a lot of different initiatives: one of the most important ones that is being worked on will be real world political activism and engagement. Working with campaigns in the real world to help get people seated is one of the most powerful things we can do as an individual. A dozen Airsofters showing up to help knock on doors can be the difference in a ridings election. This organization will be ramping up soon too.

Things are happening. If you want to get involved and do something more than writing a letter and hoping there will be plenty of opportunity to do that in the near future.

Folks,

Replying to Delta because I want to keep what he and many other stakeholders are working on relevant.

I am not directly involved with it, but he has assured me there will be opportunities for us all to help.

For now, take all the anger and frustration that we all share mutually, and please do the following:

- Write your MP.

A hand-written mailed letter is best. Follow-up with a phone call. Try your absolute best to get your MP on the phone, or schedule a meeting in addition to voicing your opposition. Let them know why you oppose C-21. Use this to aid you:

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en...caucusId=8781#

- Support the CCFR.

The CCFR is the fastest growing Firearms Rights group in Canada. They have put forward a first-of-it's-kind lawsuit campaign against the recent May 1st OIC measures. They are willing to engage, listen and take support advice from their membership. Most importantly, they openly support and want to help Airsoft. There are membership discounts for students. Let them know you represent the Airsoft community and oppose C-21.

https://firearmrights.ca/en/membership-info/

- Join and share:

https://www.facebook.com/Airsoft.in.Canada

https://www.savingairsoft.ca/

Derpystronk February 23rd, 2021 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuffMan (Post 1853447960)
Go out and campaign! A decent door knocking campaign can shift the vote by 10% or more!

It absolutely can 100% influence it.

We are working on getting this launched ASAP. We as a community are in a unique position because if the ban goes through we are going to have a lot of spare time on our hands. Spending a couple weekends during an election can have a HUGE impact.

pestobanana February 23rd, 2021 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakker (Post 1853448002)
Just saw the CTV report with pestobanana at Blackblitz, great job man, you come out as very professional. If only the other guys talking to the medias were as good as you. How we talk to the medias is probably the most important thing we as a community can do to raise awareness of this mess of a bill.

Thanks

Also this

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local...dustry-3448525

dogtoy February 23rd, 2021 19:12

I havent been active in over a decade but still collect , I just joined the CCFR , it is easy , its only 40 dollars , you can do it online , they seem like our best hope , if everyone joined it would really help fund their efforts , we all want to to rant about it & are frustrated with it , but the bottom line is that it is going to take a team of people that know what they are doing to fight this & that takes lawyers & money so I think its the best thing we can do right now

CF_Seal February 23rd, 2021 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtoy (Post 1853448086)
I havent been active in over a decade but still collect , I just joined the CCFR , it is easy , its only 40 dollars , you can do it online , they seem like our best hope , if everyone joined it would really help fund their efforts , we all want to to rant about it & are frustrated with it , but the bottom line is that it is going to take a team of people that know what they are doing to fight this & that takes lawyers & money so I think its the best thing we can do right now

Would love to have you by our side canvassing too!!

666 February 23rd, 2021 23:43

And than there is this... Report of police seizing airsoft Glock because two door knobs used it to threaten someone. https://www.facebook.com/waterlooreg...43509305691893

666 February 24th, 2021 00:32

More I think about it more I'm seeing how this is aimed at airsoft. These things can actually be used by people who are giving "pro airsoft" interviews. How come when about 1500 firearms got moved to a prohibited category owners were offered a buy back option, maybe not at full price but buy back was offered, or owners were told that if they choose not to surrender property they will be grandfathered in with 12.X (prohibited firearm licenses issued to them). Those sub categories of 12 license will not allow us to trade in any other firearms but ones we already own but it will allow us to keep what we have, even if ATT will be declined and we wont be able to take guns out to a range. We will still going to be able to keep them. Government went full ape shit with airsoft. Prohibited, everything gets seized if cop asks you about it. No license available even if one wants to get it in order to keep their stuff. It looks like they are going after airsoft while giving a slack to "assault rifles" as they call them.

tvw February 24th, 2021 10:19

Agree^^

This bill simply s*it on airsoft and offers only what has been rumored to come for the last 2 years (handgun legislations).

Thing that just outright pisses people off is how this is just pushed under. There was zero mention of this at all on Tuesday and yet they leave it for the public to look into.

Silently strike the community while distracting us with other legislations.

This is a bigger message than any gun grab in my eyes.

hollywood... February 24th, 2021 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvw (Post 1853448106)
This is a bigger message than any gun grab in my eyes.

Ya think? It's downright Draconian

Polyshot February 24th, 2021 15:17

1 Attachment(s)
Good thing is that my MP did actually read my letters...a good start.

Kwokwai February 24th, 2021 15:28

I'm not sure if I send a note to my MP if it'll make any headway. My MP is Navdeep Bains who's on his way out and a Liberal to boot. Thoughts?

Desmodus February 24th, 2021 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwokwai (Post 1853448124)
I'm not sure if I send a note to my MP if it'll make any headway. My MP is Navdeep Bains who's on his way out and a Liberal to boot. Thoughts?

Send it anyway. My local MP is a liberal and I mailed him voicing my displeasure with the bill. They need to see the negative reactions as well.

666 February 24th, 2021 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvw (Post 1853448106)
Agree^^

This bill simply s*it on airsoft and offers only what has been rumored to come for the last 2 years (handgun legislations).

Thing that just outright pisses people off is how this is just pushed under. There was zero mention of this at all on Tuesday and yet they leave it for the public to look into.

Silently strike the community while distracting us with other legislations.

This is a bigger message than any gun grab in my eyes.

Oh, "handgun legislation" when it comes to municipal ban is crumbling. Libs are loosing a battle on that front. 4 provinces already said they will oppose. I can see BC and maybe one or two maritime provinces bending over but rest of the country will fight it. Too bad this airsoft ban thing is on a federal level. Speaking of federal vs provincial/municipal bans. This one is also very strange. Government has an ability to impose prohibition on all handguns in this country but chooses to hand over decision making power to mayors. At the same time government goes and bans every other airgun in this country. How does this shit work? Are they afraid of all the flak they might get for banning all handguns and decided to throw mayors under the bus? I don't get it.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 14:10.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.