"High-capactiy" 1911 magazines (Wilson Combat style)
 

Hi all,

I've always been a fan of the hi-capacity Wilson Combat 1911 magazines.

Picture for reference:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/medi...wilson_47T.jpg

I've been thinking about making a limited run of these mags to be compatible with the Tokyo Marui 1911A1/MEU series GBB pistols, and their clones.

In order to make this a reality, I need to know there is enough interest for these mags, and I also am looking for a like-minded individual who can assist with plastics molding for the base-plate of these mags. If you are that individual, please email me at mr.subtle@6mm-mag.com.

I should note that these will not drastically increase the capacity of the mag, maybe only 10 rounds max - and that's also subject to gas consumption. These mags would likely be for "looks" and the sexy-factor.


So, what say you? Yay? Or nay?

Neat. Price pending, and quality assured, I'd be interested in a few of these. I've always liked the look.

Agreed.

I can get the price down by fabricating a lot of them. But therein lies the risk. If I can't sell them, I'm screwed.


Initial thoughts on these would be to make them a replacement or "upgrade" kit for any existing TM/1911 mag, where the customer would have to use the feed lips, valves, spring, and follower from an original 1911 mag.

That would drastically cut the cost, and still give people the look they are going for.

While I understand that to be a selling point for your kit, the price point for the user is still high as they would need the technical capability, resources to swap the mag internals, and a TM donor mag.

If you could include the parts with the kit (ordered in bulk from Japan), it would save the user money down the line.

Just bouncing the ideas. :)

Yay.

Would the stock spring have enough tension still to feed reliably at a more "relaxed" state?

As I said on GGI though, I'd be all for this. One of the area where the TM single stack is lacking is a variety of mags. For WA they have the long mag, compact and sub-compact mag....maybe then someone can make a compact TM 1911 metal kit...and have mag for it....

On the prototype I created, I used a stock KJW mag/follower spring and it worked fine.

Ideally, I'd love to be able to offer a complete mag, and I will strive to do so - but the $$$ will be higher unless I can get a line on low-cost (but reliable) components.

I should note that I refuse to make a product that is inferior to a stock TM magazine, and if it means only experienced or intermediate users can assemble them for the time-being - I think that's a trade-off us experienced users would be willing to make. Like I said - at least for the immediate future.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Also - 1911 mags are not very difficult to assemble/disassemble. The only issue I can foresee, would be the inclusion of a valve-key; For both the fill-valve and the output-valve. Which is easy enough to machine.


Great comments so far everyone - keep them coming. Your feedback is very valuable.

Define 'higher'.

Like TM higher, or like WA higher?

If it's not TOO much I would be very interested in the full mags.

Because the mags are longer, does that definitely mean the capacity for gas is higher as well? And by measuring the insides, you wouldn't happen to know (by %) how much larger the gas reservoir is would you?

I am interested, as long as the price isn't too much. I enjoy the looks, but also want a boost in gas capacity and I'm hoping the price would be reasonable for the gain in performance. Since they're custom units, however, it might be unreasonable to expect something like that. I suppose I'll wait for an official price tag before I say "I am willing to pay for one".

The idea is definitely amazing. YAY.

Edit: I used to think extended mags were buckfutt ugly, but they've grown on my incredibly. I still like standard sized mags because they fit perfectly in the gun, but the extended ones yell "the bigger the better".

Added incentive, the Magpul Dynamic dudes were both running Wilson Combat long mags on their 1911s for the Carbine II DVD...:D

I do recall seeing that Racing Maniac.

I would be interested in the custom high capacity mags. I would probably want a pair for sure, more if the cost is low enough.

If the gas capacity is good enough 808, perhaps we could test them in my Vickers Custom.

Nay. Not only is it 'not my thing' I personally think it looks stupid.

Not to mention the gain would be VERY minimal from the looks of it.

Not even sure how your going to bypass the the notch on the front of the mag with the bb follower....are you just going to leave it out? Now you've got the purist's complaining! Just seems like if you really want one, go with WesternArms......

It is always difficult to please everyone, and purists will always come out of the woodwork to point out something...

But there are quite a few TM 1911 variants out there and anyone who games their 1911's would almost certainly want the extra gas capacity.

As for the looks, I rock my KWA PTP with the 32 round mags out the bottom. They stick out an extra inch or so, but the extra gas and bb capacity is what did it for me. Some people will like the extra mag sticking out the bottom looks wise, others won't but it would be great if people had the option at least! ;)

I would say go for it!

But that is easy for me, as I do not have any 1911's and I would not buy these as a result. The only thing I would be concerned about is as long as TM does not have any longer mags in the works themselves...

It would really suck to do all the prototype work and designing only to have TM come out with it a few months later and take a lot of the market share...

I do not think that TM is doing that, nor would they be interested in doing that. The TM Hicapa was out forever and they did not make an extended mag for it until they came out with the extreme full auto version. So I don't think TM will bother making an extended longer mag for the 1911's. It would be more of a niche market I would say.

But then again what the hell do I know! lol

I think the gas capacity of the TM 1911 was so small to startwith, any gain(and percentge-gain would not be insignificant since you are starting with so little) would be useful for the gas efficiency.....I doubt though the mag "needs" to carry more BB, since standard MEU mag carries 28 round(and on propane its tough to shoot all of it even with stock gun), if the extra gas lets you shoot at least that much reliably than its a gain on my book....

1911 is such a custom platform IMO that it can always do with more "option"....

I think a TM OEM extended mag is not impossible, but before that happens this would still be an interesting product for me...

depending on the cost, i'd be up for a stack and some of these =)

I'm definitely interested for two, maybe more depending on the price.

I definitely agree. I want those for the look and gas capacity, 28 BBs is already waaaay enough.

Well, if you guys think the current capacity is enough, then I can include the mag stop tab for "realism", and make the front below it solid, so I can further increase the gas capacity beneath the follower.

That will also allow me to use ALL regular TM mag components, aside from the casing and base-plate.

Ideas and opinions like this are why I ask you folks, instead of just making them outright.

Keep them coming!

If I got one of those mags, I'd have to transplant my hicapa Xtreme internals into a 1911, extended mags are no fun with semi auto!

Too bad, it only apply to TM. I got like 5 those Wilson Combat for my SigArms GSR either way, I would say Yay. It just looks cool. :D

Dont WA makes Hi-cap looking mag? or is it lost in one of the many WA systems...

True but They are almost out of stock anywhere and it's hard to find though, it would be convenient if I could convert all my 5 mags to long than buying 5 more.

I would definatly buy two.

definitely be interested. any idea on a price range?

No firm grasp on price as of yet.

I've been given estimates and have calculated that the "upgrade" kit may cost between $20-30. Where the full magazines may cost double that, unless I can get a better price on the components necessary. I'm working to bring/keep that price down the best I can.

Those are just estimates. The real prices (for the upgrade kit) will be finalized as soon as I can.

Are you kidding? That's amazing. WELL below what I thought you would estimate.

I honestly thought you would say $80+ for the upgrade kit and $120 per mag.

Maybe I'm just used to seeing Illusions prices ;)

I'm happy you're as excited as I am.

Like I said, these are initial estimates. I'm working to keep them low - but that's roughly what I'm targeting to sell them for. Don't get too excited, I'm far from having a completed product to know the exact pricing.

But the way I see it, if I can't sell them for less than $40-50, it's too expensive. I will know 100% for sure in the near future.

I'd be interested in these.

- Base pads are already available on the aftermarket. They even have the "Wilson Combat" markings:

http://img.redwolfairsoft.com/upload.../DY-AC04-L.jpg

It would be cheaper (as far as production goes), if you just made it as a conversion kit, with a longer shell, longer follower spring and longer bolt to convert a standard mag to this extended version.

It still forces the buyer to purchase an original mag, but producing a limited run this way would be MUCH cheaper. I wouldn't mind buying it as a conversion kit.

You made a statement indicating the transfer of the original follower spring as well, but I don't agree with this... the extended length and capacity would make the spring weaker as it reaches the last rounds. Only extended testing can prove this, this is just theory. For competitive shooting, like what I do, I need the reliability of the feeding of the round. If rounds don't strip off properly because it loads slowly, then the mag is no use to me.

The valve key issue may be problematic, seeing as how cheap valve keys are getting harder and harder to find these days.

An offer can also be provided such that you have a smith somewhere who can do a bulk conversion on a number of the mags and then have it re-distributed.

Mag conversions are already something that I've done for several customers, so I know the interest to have someone do this for them is out there.

Yeah, I saw those base plates, but they're not for the extended mags.

Note the picture below (far right):
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/front/fullsizemags.jpg

As for the spring, I can't say that the standard 1911 mag spring would be suitable for competition use, it seemed to work fine - i.e. no jams or missed-feeds

But then again, I'm no competition shooter. Standard rapid fire is about as good as I could do. I wholeheartedly agree that would need more testing. I've given my prototype back to the fabricators with a few requested changes, based on the feedback in this thread. I'm going to keep using all standard (MEU) magazine components, so when I start releasing pictures, it's not going to immediately look 100% as I intend (I'm using an MEU lower to start...).

I'm going to focus the magazine on gas capacity, and not BB capacity, which will free up a lot of the lower 1/5 of the magazine for more gas - but I'm experimenting at this point, so who knows how the prototype will go.

I'd be interested in a competition shooter trying this new prototype out once I can do some initial testing. This one will use the same length (or close to) BB chamber so the spring should no longer be an issue. The goal with this is to try and get gas pressure as consistent as possible (or reduce the FPS drop) near the end of the standard 1911 mag BB capacity.

Now to the valve-key. The only thing I can think of is to make a custom key myself with the fill-valve key on one end, and the output-valve key on the other. I need to get an estimate as to the price of this work before I can give an accurate retail estimate.

As for BB capacity, I have no concern with that either, as I run 10 rounds or less through my 1911 mags anyways. So ammo capacity is not a concern.

Gas capacity, on the other hand, would be a HUGE plus and a major selling point for me getting these mags.

Would love to test these out for you. I just built a 1911 specifically for competitive use and it'd be great to get extended mags to use with it.

ohh...I demend pictures...lol

You can get Element valve keys for $10 USD.

So, in an effort to try and bump up the turnaround for a workable prototype, I visited the fabricators last night.

Good, and bad news.

They have been struggling with a way to cost-effectively machine a new mag housing the dimensions and specs I've been pushing them for. We are going to look into casting, but that may not be cost-effective either unless I'm going to order a thousand units or so (I don't have thousands of dollars lying around, unfortunately).

But after over 3 hours of brainstorming, mock-ups, illustrations, and me pushing to retain as many original magazine parts as possible - I think we have a solution we can all enjoy at the price that I want.

I've asked them to have a prototype ready as soon as possible - I'm not sure how many of you know, but I'm also working on many other parts as well, and they are taking immediate priority.

The final product will comply with the following specifications:

• It will look like the real steel extended magazine as much as possible while inserted into the pistol's magwell. I can't fabricate new feed lips to look like the loading ramp of the real steel mags - if you don't know why, I'm not going to be the one to explain it. Also, because this magazine extends out past the pistol's lower-frame, I am focusing on making the lower dimensions as close as possible to the r/s counterpart.
  
• Its finish will match that of Tokyo Marui's MEU magazine, and if possible, also be available in the dark Tokyo Marui's 1911A1 magazine finish. Wilson Combat offers two finishes for their product as well.
  
• The BB capacity will remain unchanged, and the OEM follower & spring will be compatible.
  
• The gas capacity will be increased approximately 18-22% (I need to measure the new reservoir for an exact number). I have the option of increasing this in future products, at the expense of changing the dimensions (overall length) of the magazine - which will no longer make it a replica of the r/s counterpart.
  
• A new base-plate is necessary to make it look like the r/s counterpart - which also means the magazine's lower-assembly & base-plate will not be compatible with aftermarket base-plates (like the one ILLusion posted above).
  
• A valve-key for the fill-valve may be included in the "upgrade kit", or sold separately (more likely to be sold separately - I've been toying with the idea of making a valve-key that is essentially a bit for a bit-swappable screwdriver - feel free to comment on that if you like).
  
• A new, extended mag screw (2.5mm ALLEN hex/head) will be included as well.

Alright - so now I've divulged as much as I can about the product. At this point, the next time you will hear from me on this will be when I have a functioning & practical prototype of the end-product.

If any of you have any further questions or suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.

I had missed that last post... well, considering the conclusion of your post is that the project is still going strong and that it is feasible, I consider this to be good news :)

Question: will it have Wilson Combat trades?

No, it will not.

The real mag does not, either - as far as every angle I've seen anyways.

I'd definitely be interested in these, if they're still being made by the time I'm AV'd. Looks like WA made this type of mag too, but either its discontinued or out of stock everywhere:
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=21398

definitely interested in this mag. Hopefully you can release it soon =)

i'm interested as well. :P

Yep, checking that the mag itself doesn't, only the baseplate has some.

The extended-capacity magazines do not have trades on the plastic base-plate unless you swap the standard-capacity plate on the extended magazine.

Well Im interested too..tired of the "outofgas blues"

I'm excited and can't wait for this to come out.
What's the current R&D status?

I can't believe I just found this now. Interested.

interested as well

If this goes on, I'd be interested in one or two.

I'll have some of this.

count me in for 1 or 2.

any new details?

I am also interested in these.

I would love to see a set of these. But instead of making them high capacity just use the TM standard of 28 of just a slight upgrade to like 30 or 31 as that is still alot to shoot and the extended capacity would be used as a gas resevoir and then firing all 28 rds can be shot in quick sucession.

A kit would be fine for me either way its made I'd be done for 3.

I would take a few.

For those interested:

Initial machining looks good. The guys I use are top-notch, and care about their work, which REALLY makes a huge difference.

I haven't had much time to put into R&D however, my top priority has been the WETTI AWSS trigger group for SCAR and M4/4168.

I've been trying to find ways of making the kit seal better than it currently is - I've had some leaking problems, which just won't do. The idea here is to increase gas capacity, so it's got to be dead-simple to install without leaking. And right now, that isn't the case.

I'm also delayed on finding someone to do the plastic/nylon molds for the base-plate. Yes, people can use the standard-capacity base-plate, but it's not authentic to the look of the extended mag - and is part of what I think makes the mags look dead-sexy.

That's about it, really. I've been trying to keep people updated via http://6mm-mag.com/ - but again - priority is with the WETTI AWSS trigger group.

any updates on this?

Looks like he chose the right machining company.
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/up...m-638x1024.jpg

Nah, that's AAC, not his. Just a trick to get your attention :p (it's written on the caption)

Marui will try to take your business....40 round TM long mag for 1911 is coming soon....

http://www.hyperdouraku.com/event/ho.../images/12.jpg

Still.. I don't know about you guys but CNC machined magazines sound pretty sweet... lol
Marui one is also a little lacking in the realism department

I just hope you're still going to have this thing made.

:>

This sounds like a fantastic idea regardless of these magazines reaching production.

just curious about any updates?

If they're KJW compatible, YAY. It's just a matter of time before I look like Travis Haley with more Wilson hi-capacity mags than AR mags.

Still only loaded to real capacity...

Is the KJW 1911 a clone of the Marui?

The 1911 I believe is a direct marui clone, but the MEU varies slightly on the KJW (mags are fatter) but beyond that all the internals are the same.

Yes, at least the version they are selling now is.

Although they have a CO2 version now that has those fat magazines now...

Still waiting for TM to come out with their extended mag as they've shown a few months back...

Would love to get 5 of the kit if you still gonna make it :D

Then I can actually use 1911 against all the capas for comps ... btw, with the extended mag, will it fit in the IPSC "box"?.. i believe the length shouldnt be over 17cm? (cmiiw)

Nicholas

no it won't fit

Is this project dead? I'm still interested...

I'm interested too, damn you Conker !

Very interested... 808 where you at man?

Good news guys:
http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/in...ducts_id=14313

Ohhhhhh yes!

they come in black too :D