KWA vs. CA
 

Overall, which M4 is the better buy?

Which gun?

haha...oops.

Fixed.

CA is better IMO. But it depends i suppose on what you want. A CA might not have as good "performance" ei FPS or RPM, but they are VERY durable. If you want something that will never fail you go with CA, as i did. And don't get caught up in the whole KWA "lipo ready" thing, because they really aren't. It's still very hard on it. Besides, i run a 10.8v battery in my CA with no problems or wear and it gives 20-23ish RPS, which is plenty IMO.
So in short CA :D

In my opinion I'd say KWA. They are about as solid if not more so than any other M4 AEG on the market to date. All the internals are perfectly matched to one another so there are no issues.

The biggest upside to KWA is that they listen to their customers about improvements that they would like to see, as well as flaws that are found with the product. I've had my KWA since November and would not trade it for all the CA's on the market.

As for the Li-Po ready claims it's because of the reinforced gearbox, the 8mm steel ball bearing bushings as well as the perfectly matched internals that make it capable of handling the awesome power of the Li-Po's straight out of the box. I run a Socom gear 11.1V Li-Po and have yet to have any problems after about 6000 rounds through it.

Yes they have some downsides. The hop-up isn't the easiest to change out with an aftermarket one as it's a two piece unit. The trades on the side are kind of a downer.

In the end it's a personal choice on which one to choose. You are going to find alot of differing opinions on what one is better and this is just one mans opinion of the topic.

CA bearings suck. Also, CA yellow piston sucks.

CA externals are OK tho.

Ya well good luck finding parts for a KWA and nothing inside a KWA is compatible with anything else.so for that reason alone i would never buy a KWA again if your mechbox breaks like my freinds did your boned as KWA USA will not ship to canada.So that being said CA all the way.
If you have any KWA questions PM this guy "Terror" his mechbox blew apart and had tried to get compatible parts for both of us with no luck but im sure he would be more than happy to tell ya what he thinks of KWA and their awsome ....yeah right internals and no it wasnt a lemon they are just shit. Knowing what i know now i would never buy a KWA again. from day one its a countdown to major dissapointment trust me. i wont even use mine anymore for fear to break something that cant be replaced.And those who havnt put 20+ thousand rounds through one dont know didly.Buy a CA and Get a TUNEUP kit and you will have a AEG that is 100% reliable and not too mention sturdy,My CA has never let me down sure its not as responsive as the KWA but it doesnt run off lipo....yet........LOL

as said before"CA all the way and fuck KWA"

if that happens can you just drop any other mechbox in there? or will it not fit properly?

Nothing fits. A drop in mechbox will not fit been there done that absolutley nothing i repeat nothing is compatible with this POS you cant take anything out and put in any other AEG and no NON KWA parts will fit on this gun anywhere

I was worrying about compatability. I think I know what I'm picking! Thanks guys!

Maybe on the old versions but not on the new ones. To my knowledge thier m4's don't even run bearing bushings. And the yellow pistons are great. I've put about 75,000 rounds through mine with a 10.8v battery and checked the internals and there is NO wear on the piston. NONE. in my experience they are indestructible.

Not to contradic and be a snob, but i have a little bit of stuff on your post--
6,000 rounds isn't enough to say whether or not it is reliable. have you checked the internals since the 6,000 rounds? I'm sure it can handle it quite well but for me it can't handle it enough to permanently use one, that's just a lot of battery for stock internals IMO, any brand.

Had a CA SR25... grinded thru 4 pistons... yeah yellow pistons suck...

BTW gear's were shimmed properly...

My friend has a KWA and deals with KWA guns and parts on a regular basis.

replacement parts for a KWA are easy to get from their site, the gun is very very solid, and is fully compatible with any aftermarket products for the internals of the gearbox.

CA yellow pistons are hit and miss. Some last forever, some blow out easily. Either way, the piston is really the "consumable" part inside a mechbox anyway and is cheap enough to replace. Otherwise though, their internals are top notch.

And on the piston note, I hear as many people having their overpriced Systema polycarbonate (red) pistons blow out. I replaced the 20k round old CA piston in my gun (that showed no wear) with a Systema. The Systema didn't even last 25o rounds before exploding. I reinstalled the CA one, and it's seen at least another 20k rounds on top of the original 20k and it's still going strong.

KWA by far, no questions asked, if your willing to spend the extra bit of money, its WELL worth it.

Doesn't CA usually cost more than KWA? Or do I just have really bad memory XD

Yes, CA's cost more.

Oh I totally agree that 6,000 isn't anywhere near enough of a benchmark to judge whether or not it's reliable. I just checked the internals about a week ago when I put the stock spring back in after trying out a m100 that I had. Everything still looks good to go. There is a guy on the KWA forum that took photos of his stock internals after 120,000+ rounds and the damn thing looked brand new and that with a 11.8V 15c Li-Po in it. I personally use the Li-Po because I don't have to worry about swapping batteries in the middle of a game, I charge it up the night before a game and I know I'm going to get at least a bag of bb's out of it before I start noticing any change in it's performance.

I've worked on both the KWA and CA. Quite a few clients owned them and I personally owned both at one point as well.

Both guns have their ups and downs really. But if you have perfect confidence in gearbox upgrading, go with CA. It's a much better base and 100% compatible to just about anything M4 out there. But you start out with a not-so-great performing gun(IN MY STANDARDS). 330FPS gives you mediocre range, accuracy is meh(Hop up rubber is below par), ROF is meh, though the externals are great.

However if you don't want to touch anything and just want to play it stock, the KWA will outperform a CA anyday, Range, Accuracy, ROF, Mechbox durability, you name it. The only thing I hate about KWA is that you can only use 2-Piece hop up units unless you do major reconstructive surgery. And some other parts are not TM compatible as well.

Both guns can perform superb if you tune it up properly with the proper parts(I can say the same to just about any guns out there on the market).

Hope that helps

Yes, I would most likely be upgrading it.

Some of the guys on our team have the kwa m4 and they are sweet but 2 of them have had their mech shells snap off at the front (typical v2 failure)
Neither of these had been run on lipo, nor were they abused or heavily gamed.
Seemed odd.
No other problems to report.

Not a fan of CA internals.

Were they, per chance, gamed in cold weather when they snapped? (I'm not defending KWA, I just want to know. ;) )

KWA V2 mechboxes are far too weak for the stock power these guns come with. You don't need a lipo to blow the internals apart. The stock springs and weak shells are responsible for that. Their V3 boxes are rock solid though.

So I've really gotten both sides, but I'm a little undecided. For some reason I'm feeling the CA a little more, although I don't have experience with either gun. I'll be gaming a KWA soon enough, but can't really compare it to a CA. Damn!;)

What upgrades are you thinking about doing? There really isnt much you can do to make a KWA better other than a tightbore ;)

I would let that be decided by my gun doc. Since you guys know, how much would the average cost be too bring the CA up to par. It might just be easier for me to go with KWA, and cheaper. Can you switch lowers on KWAs?

Ok, well im not an M4 kinda guy, i personally own a KWA G36C, but to tell you the truth, now that KWA came out with a version 2 hop-up bucking, Theres is nothing you can do to it to make it any better
Out of the Box:
400fps
Great ROF
Insanly tough gears (Only Gun that AirsoftGi has tested that can withstand a 16v battery)
Full Metal Body

Just a bit of info ;)

I can find a KWA for $450. Whats the average price for a CA? I'd have to add upgrades too.

For CA, add a spring (if you want a higher velocity) and a new piston, and you're golden. Personally, I'm up to about 40 000 rounds on my stock CA piston and no issues with it yet, but results with their pistons may vary. Nothing else required unless you push it up past 375 fps, then a harder type hopup rubber would be a good idea. I'd also throw in a bearing spring guide (which I did) just for better consistency. They already come with hardened gears and a reinforced mechbox, so there's really nothing else you need to do.

Unfortunately, as 'good' as KWA Armalites are internally, their mechbox shells suck ass. If you do go the KWA route, I'd strongly recommend a spring downgrade and a sorbo pad to prolong the life of the mechbox.

I know you guys are talking AEGS but you couldn't PAY ME to use a KWA GBB.

+1

Well, as long as it's a V2. Their other guns are fine. I have no problems with them. But Armalites? Not a chance...

Plus that big KWA logo on the side of the receiver is ugly as hell too... I'd rather real trademarks or none at all.

Nope, can't switch lowers or uppers on KWA M4. They aren't TM compatible, it uses a different design. If you wanted to change the body, you'd have to go all out.

For upgrading a CA to 400FPS with good accuracy and reliability, you'd be looking at the following:

Prometheus M110 spring
Prometheus POM Bearing Piston Head
Prometheus AERO cylinderhead
Modify Poly Carb piston
Modify Bearing Spring Guide

Prometheus Airseal Hop Up rubber(Soft)
Prometheus NEO STRIKE Chamber one piece hop up unit
Prometheus 6.03mm Tightbore 363mm

That's about it. I don't reccomend Modify Cylinderhead because the impact rubber is not attached properly. One time it just fell off of the cylinderhead and I had to super glue it back on. And Modify POM piston heads have slightly small O-Ring that sometimes doesn't compress properly. The Modify M110 spring is stiffer than Prom M110 as well.

You can get those items from Airsoftparts.ca and Ehobbyasia.com

happy hunting

PS: That set up, if installed properly, should get you around 380~400FPS. I wouldn't reccomend going Prom M120 because it destroys mechbox slightly faster and will shoot around 420FPS

Yeah, fps limit here is 380. I'll probably go with CA due to reliability.

When you get the bearing piston head. Don't install the Bearings, that should get your gun firing exactly around 380FPS

My C7 (originally a CA M15A4 rifle) has:

Modify bearing spring guide
Systema silent piston / cylinder head set
Prometheus MS110SP spring
(rest of the mechbox is stock)
Deepfire 6.04mm tightbore
Guarder clear hopup rubber

It shoots a consistent 380-385 fps and has sick range and accuracy.

The first one was gamed in near-zero weather, the other went 2 weeks ago when it was 15 degrees.
We all know cold makes them brittle but this one broke REALLY fast. It was practically new. And it wasn't that cold.

I didn't know both receivers were KWA only.
That would be a dealbreaker for me.

What are we talking about specifically? Dimensions or design? IIRC, both KWA and CA use tabs (like TM) to hold the upper down.

I personally don't trust those tabs, even in metal (airsoft) guns, so I'd never get a CA or KWA.

*Thumbs up*
I will admit KWA has better performance out of box, but if you want something very reliable that you can tinker with CA is the best bet IMO.

Let me tell you the metal tabs on the CA are NOT going to break. Rock solid.
And CA has a different design, the back pin holds the mechbox in, the way you strip the recievers is different. On CA the front pin only keeps it from sliding off forwards, the "holding down" process is done by the curved nature of the mechbox top fitting with the curved nature of the upper reciever, plus to metal "pins" in the back. Or are you talking about those 2 pins and i'm just an idiot?
Ok sorry my bad ;)

Idk, i've just never trusted KWA, they seem to over-powered for what they are thus causing unreliability.

Either will make a good gun. KWA's are very nice right out of the box. CA's are so-so internals

CA upper receiver pins break...seen more than a few with either one or both pins cracked out of the receiver. More due to user abuse during reassembly than wear/tear.

I haven't seen KWA tabs break...but I suppose they could just like any other metal part.

I do not like the "proprietary" KWA nozzle/hopup setup. The logo on the receiver is horrid. Out of the box several have had poor compression at the piston head. The solid aluminum piston head is not loctited and, in my opinion, not a good idea. I fixed one that had come loose...it destroyed the rest of the mechbox (the gears survived intact, the rest was toast). Rest of the mechbox parts are usually very nice.

CA's mechboxes tend to suffer from sloppy assembly. Piston is hit and miss. Should have a metal bearing spring guide. CA nozzles are hit and miss too. But with just a few upgrade parts and a little TLC, they can run a long, long, long time. I have not had good luck with CA Motors lasting long for anything but sub 350 setups. Some Modify SS cylinder heads do not fit (there is a CA specific version)

CA metal rifles are very nice. Painted on trades are a disappointment...but it usually takes quite a bit of wear/tear before they fade into oblivion. Solid builds usually. Bug juice is not good for AEGs.

CA's are just marginally easier to work on (really splitting hairs here).

If I were buying one (for the purpose of upgrading or not) I'd buy a CA. Regardless of what brand, I'd give the mechbox a once over anyways.

Design, The KWA lower is desgined to take 2 piece hop up units, and quick release upper in mind

When I get the gun, If I do, I'll ask my gun doctor to install what he sees fit. He has a CA himself so that should help for sure.

I can't speak for other guns, but their Armalites have laser engraved trademarks, not painted.

To my knowledge +1 also

The JG 614 has one of those, it worked ok and made taking it apart a breeze.......until it broke on my friends gun. We looked everywhere for a 2 piece original but couldn't find it, so we ended up having to replace with a metal one piece, which required milling to make it fit. And even to this day everything doesn't quite work right. Figures too after we bought and installed it, we found a replacement on airsoftgi (they just came in stock). *sighs*

CA doesn't use tabs... don't know where you got that idea from.

CA uses the same upper receiver system that G&P does.

In my experiences CA are much higher quality than KWA... KWA's just doing the same thing that chinese clone companies are.. They're releasing stock guns that are "pre-upgraded" with lower-end parts to make them more attractive to new players.

CA's Aluminum bodies are very good, same with their internals (the new versions of the guns have very solid internals)

+1 to all that. From what I gather, it's been a few years now since CA have made Armalite receivers with tabs. And I've yet to see a metal body that matches the quality of a stock CA. That lower receiver is about as solid as it gets. Ditto for the upper. IMO, even most aftermarket receivers don't even come close to comparing to what CA includes on stock guns.

That's what i was thinking, but then i read it closer, and i think by "tabs" he's referring to the 2 little tabs RIGHT below the charging handle that lock into 2 slots right above the buffer tub.
Maybe he will conferm which one he's talking about?

hahaha who cares guys.

bottom line CA if you want to do upgrades, KWA if you play stock

done?

I'd say done. I'll be going with CA, I think.

PS: Will pulling the charging handle and releasing it quickly cause any damage to it or the gun?

nope, that will not damage the gun. I've never seen any metal bodies break because of charging handle being released multiple times.

PS: Thanking people for their help would be a good habit to learn =)

Keep in mind that CA is up-dating their guns a releasing new versions every year...

So some one's experience from 2 years ago is really no longer valid..

From what I've seen of the new CA... It's great. I'm not even sure they still use the same yellow pistons (Haven't opened one up... they shoot nice enough stock)

Edit: The only "Damage" you can do to the gun with the charging handle is reefing it backwards really hard and stretching the spring.

More like, CA if you want reliability in the long term, KWA if you want headache in the long term.

haha I guess you could say that too

Oh don't worry, the thanks was coming:). I just wanted to say thanks at the end of all my questions. So, I'd like to give a BIG thanks to everyone who helped me pick my first M4;).

I wouldn't let it go w/o holding on, pulling it back and just letting it go makes a nasty "clank" on mine and doesn't sound healthy, however cocking it quickly while holding on is perfectly fine.
+1
Well said :)

Thanks guys;)