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-   -   Bolt Not Locking W/ Zero Trigger (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=79451)

gerardcb March 28th, 2009 16:33
Bolt Not Locking W/ Zero Trigger
 
Hi!

internals:
Zero Trigger
Ball Bearing Spring guide
laylax hard hop
150 spring

B4 I start, I just want to say : When I first got my zt, I didnt know how to put it on the gun. I completely dismantled it. I was able to put it back together(hopefully correctly). I used it for a while.


My gun had been having a rough bolt pull. I tried everything, but still rough. So my last thought was to dismantle the ZT and put it back together and see if that changes anything. IT DID. NOT FOR THE BETTER. Now when I pull the bolt back, it WONT LOCK!!

I looked at the piston sear and I was just a slight difference in the middle of it. The middle was JUST a little wore/lower and alittle more shinier than the sides on the top. I had the zt for just about 1-2months. I don't think that is the problem, because how it the world will it get like that in 2 months?!

Also, the spring guide stopper was originally black, but now the parts that are being touched are silver. Is that normal too?

The way I put my gun together, is to put the cylinder first then put the zt because I tie a string on the spring guide stopper so it doesnt get loose. Could that b a problem too?

So if you guys got lost cuz of my talking, the main point is that the bolt is not locking when i pull it back and i need it to lock lol

I have a game tommorrow! please need to find answers asap

Amos March 28th, 2009 16:50
Normally bolt not locking back = broken sear but if you've disassembled the zero trigger you may have not put a spring back in the right place..

Rough bolt pull can be because a lack of lubrication between the cylinder and the body of the rifle... or if you've got a scope mount (assuming it's a VSR) and you've tightened the screws too far the screws could be causing friction.

What company and gun is this?

bean March 28th, 2009 16:50
I made an awesome trouble shooting guide that covers this stuff in the upgrade section you should look. I bet that problem is covered in there.

gerardcb March 28th, 2009 18:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos (Post 949837)
Normally bolt not locking back = broken sear but if you've disassembled the zero trigger you may have not put a spring back in the right place..

Rough bolt pull can be because a lack of lubrication between the cylinder and the body of the rifle... or if you've got a scope mount (assuming it's a VSR) and you've tightened the screws too far the screws could be causing friction.

What company and gun is this?
Wow i cnt believe i didnt state the name of my gun. so sry. Anyways its a vsr-10 tm.

well for 1-2 months its almost impossible to have worn sears. I see alittle curve in te middle of the sear, but its just toooooo tiny to even care about it. Hopefully worn sears(on a zt) r not the problem.

Also, i dont think i put anything on the trigger wrong, but just to make sure, do u have any pictures on where the parts belong on the zt?

The roughness is also not the lack on lube. Its most likely the sides of the spring guide stopper grinding against the bottom hole on the cylinder. Just duno how to fix that.

Thankz alot btw bro :)

bean March 28th, 2009 18:51
Since you failed to follow my suggestion I will spoonfeed you. Take your bearing spring guide out and unscrew it. Thread lock the threads and put it back together this should fix it.

gerardcb March 28th, 2009 19:08
Quote:
Originally Posted by bean (Post 949937)
Since you failed to follow my suggestion I will spoonfeed you. Take your bearing spring guide out and unscrew it. Thread lock the threads and put it back together this should fix it.
lol i just happen to reply to him first and fast. I wanted to actually take in a deep thought more to ur suggestions. no offense to amos. This is wat i sent to u in your inbox.

hey bro! thx alot for ur help. The troubleshooting guide helped.

I think the problem is that the receiver is too thick according to your guide. I just dont understand that the zero trigger was working fine when i first got it for my tm vsr 10. I didnt know how to put it on so i dissassembled it to put it on until i figured out the real way lol. Anyways, it was working fine.

Then i decide to take the zt apart again because i tried everything except for that to solve my "rough bolt pull" problem. Ive super glued the 2 halves of the ball bearing spring guide together because ive had that problem in the past.

I finally install it in my gun and the first few times i cock it, its fine. Then it gets rougher and then doesnt lock anymore at like the 2 try then it doesnt lock at all after that.

Do you think the filing with 100 grit sandpaper will work?

Do you think that i didnt install the zt properly? Do you have any pictures that i can follow to install the zt correctly?

Thanks alot for ur help :)

I have a game tommorrow and i thought i might not be able to use this rifle but u make me actually have hope lol. Please dont log off or at least check every like few minutes for a msg from me. Really hope i will get to use it tom

Amos March 28th, 2009 19:24
with a TM you shouldn't have to modify the receiver at all...

But I used all PDI parts.

Your zero trigger doesn't have anything to do with a rough bolt pull.

gerardcb March 28th, 2009 19:35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos (Post 949950)
with a TM you shouldn't have to modify the receiver at all...

But I used all PDI parts.

Your zero trigger doesn't have anything to do with a rough bolt pull.
hmm...well then wat else could b causing the bolt not locking back? Isnt it almost impossible for the sears to b the problem because i mean its a laylax zero trigger used for only like 2 months.

lemegacool March 28th, 2009 19:39
there is a little sear that extends on the top of the 0 trigger when you push on it (the way the piston would do) does it locks or it folds?

Amos March 28th, 2009 19:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerardcb (Post 949957)
hmm...well then wat else could b causing the bolt not locking back? Isnt it almost impossible for the sears to b the problem because i mean its a laylax zero trigger used for only like 2 months.
If you disassembled it and re-assembled it there's a chance you didn't put a spring or two back in the right place.

... What are your cylinder specs? IIRC the Zero trigger has a strangely shaped sear that locks onto the piston... If you're using the stock marui piston the end of your piston may have stripped causing it to slip off... But this is all speculation, I don't have any experience with Zero Triggers (only PDI's V-Trigger)

Do a test for me, take the cylinder out and reach in to the sear that'll be in the body, try pushing on it.. it shouldn't move until you press the trigger down.

gerardcb March 28th, 2009 20:46
cylinder specs/test
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos (Post 949961)
If you disassembled it and re-assembled it there's a chance you didn't put a spring or two back in the right place.

... What are your cylinder specs? IIRC the Zero trigger has a strangely shaped sear that locks onto the piston... If you're using the stock marui piston the end of your piston may have stripped causing it to slip off... But this is all speculation, I don't have any experience with Zero Triggers (only PDI's V-Trigger)

Do a test for me, take the cylinder out and reach in to the sear that'll be in the body, try pushing on it.. it shouldn't move until you press the trigger down.
I'm using the orange zt piston, teflon cylinder, laylax head, ball bearing spring guide.

I took the cylinder out and when i pushed the sear, it didnt move like it should. U know, i was trying out my gun and it worked! it worked for like 5 shots then it didnt lock for about 2-3 pulls then it locked again. I didnt wanna experiment with it more because i'm afraid of wat might happen and the dmg it causes.

I gues i might bring it tommorrow on my skirmish, but i really have to have the sniper attitude of one shot, one kill. it prolly wont last for long working. Hopefully it does tho.

Amos March 28th, 2009 21:27
Well... don't think I can help you any more short of taking a look at it myself.. Sorry!

gerardcb March 29th, 2009 22:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos (Post 950013)
Well... don't think I can help you any more short of taking a look at it myself.. Sorry!
Thats okay man. I dont blame u. The problem is very rare obviously. It would take a miracle to fgure out how to solve it.

Thanks alot for trying. :) Hopefully i can get an answer. I didnt end up bringing it to the skrimish today lol.

Duff March 30th, 2009 08:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerardcb (Post 949997)
I'm using the orange zt piston, teflon cylinder, laylax head, ball bearing spring guide.

I took the cylinder out and when i pushed the sear, it didnt move like it should. U know, i was trying out my gun and it worked! it worked for like 5 shots then it didnt lock for about 2-3 pulls then it locked again. I didnt wanna experiment with it more because i'm afraid of wat might happen and the dmg it causes.

I gues i might bring it tommorrow on my skirmish, but i really have to have the sniper attitude of one shot, one kill. it prolly wont last for long working. Hopefully it does tho.
Did the sear release when you were pushing the sear and pulling the trigger?
also does the sear try to latch when you are pulling on it?

Wonder if the trigger is jammed and lot letting the sear move on order to latch onto the cylinder.

gerardcb March 30th, 2009 19:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duff (Post 950968)
Did the sear release when you were pushing the sear and pulling the trigger?
also does the sear try to latch when you are pulling on it?

Wonder if the trigger is jammed and lot letting the sear move on order to latch onto the cylinder.
What do you mean by latch? And what do you mean by pulling on it? Pulling like actually pulling the sear toward you while in the receiver?

Duff April 1st, 2009 06:33
when you put your finger on the sear and pull your finger out if the receiver, does the sear move?

Im just curios is the sear will let the cylinder move back enough to for the sear to catch. If its jammed for some reason then it will prevent the cylinder from sliding back all the way.

But now that I think about it, if you can remove and re-insert the cylinder, then that should not be the issue.

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 16:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duff (Post 952380)
when you put your finger on the sear and pull your finger out if the receiver, does the sear move?

Im just curios is the sear will let the cylinder move back enough to for the sear to catch. If its jammed for some reason then it will prevent the cylinder from sliding back all the way.

But now that I think about it, if you can remove and re-insert the cylinder, then that should not be the issue.
When i push the sear, it doesnt move. When push the sear and press the trigger, it moves and folds forward. When i pull the sear to me, it folds inward.


I've just found out something else. I put in the marui spring, then the 130 spring. With the springs, it locks back! Despite still the rough bolt pull. Then i put in the 150...it doesnt lock back again.

I have a feeling the rough bolt pull plays a part in the problem...just a thought...

lemegacool April 7th, 2009 17:50
maybe the 150 spring is too long... i bought a couple springs for my vsr10 (no 0trigger) and when i tried the 150 spring it wouldn't lock back either! 130 is fine but 150 not and is hard like a mothe*****ker to pull

just my 2 cents...

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 21:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemegacool (Post 957324)
maybe the 150 spring is too long... i bought a couple springs for my vsr10 (no 0trigger) and when i tried the 150 spring it wouldn't lock back either! 130 is fine but 150 not and is hard like a mothe*****ker to pull

just my 2 cents...
Do you have the neo piston? And u sure it really doesnt lock back? U sure its not that u didnt pull the bolt fully?

lemegacool April 7th, 2009 21:14
no ...stock piston... but yes i slammed it backward and wouldn't catch! maybe it not that the problem though... was just making a point

Erennert April 7th, 2009 21:23
I don't think you really listened to Bean, but heres what he meant

Quote:
Originally Posted by bean (Post 456129)
Problem solving.
Low fps for a setup that should be much higher
1.Check your cylinder for compression. Cock the gun and place your finger over the cylinder head. Fire the gun. The cylinder should not move unless you remove your finger.
2.If it does move this could mean a bad seal from your cylinder head. Remove your cylinder head and place teflon tape on the threads and screw back in. If you have the cylinder head pro do the same for the adjustable nozzle. Then repeat the test.
3.If its not compression it could be the internals. If you leave the gun cocked for a long period of time it can ruin the spring. However this shouldn't cause a huge problem. More often then not this is attributed to the high pressure piston from the zero trigger set.
4.If you still have your original piston the gun came with remove the oring from that one. Place it on the zero trigger one instead. The way the piston works is that air goes int he tiny holes int he piston head and push the oring out. However if you have to powerful of a spring this will cause air leaks around the oring. You just need a thicker oring. Worst comes to worst measure the oring and order a thicker one online.
5.Silent shaft the little white shaft that protrudes from the piston is a piece of garbage. Promptly cut it down or place the grub screw wrapped in teflon tape in place of it. It creates a pocket of air at the front of the cylinder when fired and by doing this makes the gun quieter. In the process though it dramatically drops speed of the round.
6. The pesky hopup that comes with the gun does not seal very well. Wrapping the inner barrel with teflon tape and then cutting around the hopup orifice to remove the stuff in the hole will create a better seal and boost fps. You can also get a new hopup bucking.

The rifle will not stay cocked or will not cock at all
1. If you installed the metal spring guide do this immediately. Unscrew the two halves of the spring guide and place teflon tape or threadlock in the screw groves. This will hopefully fix the problem. What was happening is that the base is being turned and coming unscrewed from the top. When the piston is pulled back in an attempt to cock the gun it hits the top of the spring guide and is unable to catch on the sear.
2.if you have to many spring tensioners installed the same problem as above will happen. Remove a couple and test.
3.If you are not using a zero trigger and this happens upgrade to the zero trigger and save yourself the heart ache. You likely wore down a sear and by the time you finish replacing everything you might as well have got it.
4.All of the above has been done however there has been no change. You may be having a problem with the sears engaging the piston. This will happen a lot in the hfc usr-11 the vsr clone. The receiver is made to large and the zero trigger sears wont catch on the piston. To fix this you may need to file down the receiver to allow the sears to catch. If you have no clue what you are doing do not attempt this under any circumstance. Give it to someone more experienced to look at. Remove the trigger guard and the rest of the rifle other then the receiver the trigger group and the cylinder. Try to cock the portion you have while looking in at where the sears are. You should notice that the sears are just moving up but not pushing down far enough engage. When you are filing do it bit by bit and keep testing.

I lost the little black cylinder from within the hopup unit
1.do not panic
2.take out a bic pen and remove the inc portion. If it is one of the old ones it should have a nice little plastic ink reservoir that looks much like the one within the vsr. Cut out the desired length and replace it in the gun.
Hope this helps. :D

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 21:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemegacool (Post 957471)
no ...stock piston... but yes i slammed it backward and wouldn't catch! maybe it not that the problem though... was just making a point
Ya i get u. thx for helping me. Well i just dnt think a sniper is useful unless it is atleast 500fps. I dunno how to acheive that with a 130 spring.

Have u also have had rough bolt pull?

lemegacool April 7th, 2009 21:29
i have a 130 in my rifle (mag brand) and i'm firing at 420 fps and my rifle is very effective! i'm firing .30g bb's

and yes hard bolt pulls and push!

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 22:06
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemegacool (Post 957490)
i have a 130 in my rifle (mag brand) and i'm firing at 420 fps and my rifle is very effective! i'm firing .30g bb's

and yes hard bolt pulls and push!
I mean like when you pull it is it rough. like do you feel like its not cycling right? Its like scraping?

lemegacool April 7th, 2009 22:09
no it's cycling very smoothly! cylinder is greased on the outside + i sanded all seam lines inside the receiver!

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 22:17
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemegacool (Post 957521)
no it's cycling very smoothly! cylinder is greased on the outside + i sanded all seam lines inside the receiver!
thats really odd then. Ya prolly the roughness plays a role in this too. Wat exactly did you sand down? What do you mean the seam lines?

Erennert April 7th, 2009 22:31
Gerard, if you are still having this problem, try looking at the several posts people have tried to help you with, but didn't see, by myself and Bean.

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 22:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erennert (Post 957542)
Gerard, if you are still having this problem, try looking at the several posts people have tried to help you with, but didn't see, by myself and Bean.
I've looked at every single post and tried everything including what you and Bean wer trying to tell me. Nothing seems to be effective.

Now, it doesnt lock back even with the 130 spring...

Both white rings are there btw. still...

Amos April 7th, 2009 22:53
My guess is you've re-assembled a spring backwards in your Zero trigger...

gerardcb April 7th, 2009 23:03
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos (Post 957562)
My guess is you've re-assembled a spring backwards in your Zero trigger...
How would u guess that? Is that an exact guess? I mean a guess isnt perfect of course, but Like i really put backwards a spring lol? Is it possible you can specify the spring?

EDIT:
I just realized something. The Zero Trigger is jammed. When i push the sear and pull the trigger at the same time, it folds backwards but sometimes it doesnt go back to its place. Sometimes it stays folded back until i move it with my finger again.

I dunno wat is causing the jam.


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