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Review - ICS M4 BIBLE: Problems and Fixes
Ok, I'm buying an ICS M4, and I wanted to research it as much as possible. There's tons of information on both airsoftplayers.com and filairsoft.com and it's almost overwhelming. There's a frickin 21 page thread on filairsoft on this. So, I condensed all the useful information that I could find into this one thread so nobody else will have to go through the pain of hunting all this up. This IS NOT MY MATERIAL, but is rather adapted from the experiences of actual ICS M4 owners across the world.
I hope it helps some of you ICS owners out. ICS Innovations: - De-cocking lever incorporated on the forward-assist button - De-cocking is not possible using an ultra or infinite gear because the swing-arm inside the lower gearbox hits the spur gear - Metal receiver is nicely finished, laser etched markings of Olympic arms - Pipe stock is different in design, totally different than Marui, even the way it's bolted - Barrel wobble is non-existent. Totally re-designed from the collar ring to the front barrel - Internal wiring is neater, with small conduit nicely done towards front of gun - High capacity magazine - More robust gears, standard ratio - The small screw locking the mag release has been changed for the better. - De-cocking feature is quite useful, but is not possible if you use ultra or infinite gears. - Just chronoed the barrel with and without the o-ring in front of the hop assembly. FPS went up with that o-ring! ICS got something right! - Now for the fun part; I had installed an old polycarbonate piston head which separated from the piston after a few shots. Had this been another Marui AEG I would have just put it back in its gun bag and pick up another AEG - imagine having to take of the ret. stock, motor plate, motor, pistol grip, mag catch, hop-up thingy, etc, etc. As this was an ICS M4, I opened the receiver, pull out the upper gearbox, took out six screws, and presto, installed a brand new Prometheus piston head, and had the AEG firing away...all in less than 10 minutes, and at a leisurely pace too. Receiver: - Metal receiver is longer than your regular Marui receiver to accommodate the swing-up upper receiver Pistol Grip: - Pistol grip is more durable than Marui, more motor space inside; wiring is straightforward, better designed motor plate - Don't replace the stock pistol grip with Guarder reinforced grips. The angle of the motor will not be aligned properly and it will eventually ruin your bevel gear. - ICS pistol grip is different size than the Marui pistol grip. Its thinner, I think to make it more realistic than the Marui ones. Even the Marui motor plate does not fit on the ICS pistol grip. Motor: -ICS motor may be louder than a TM motor out of the box. This is due to the fact that the pinion gear is longer on the ICS motor than on the TM motor. It can often be changed back to a normal volume by adjusting the motor height. -If you are buying an EG1000 or other aftermarket motor for the ICS gun, it is suggested that you swap pinion gears so that the new motor has the ICS pinion on it. This is mainly due to the fact that the ICS one is longer than most out there and it's made that way for a reason. A shorter gear may not mesh as completely with the mechbox gears and result in a stripped gear over time. Gearbox: - Gearbox is a 2-piece design exclusively made and designed by ICS similar in material to Marui - Upper gearbox is judging from the reinforcements on the front part, looks more durable than a version 3 gearbox - Internal dimension where the spring and pistons rest are the same, but inner dimensions lengthwise is about a millimeter shorter -The most important part of the gearbox (front part where cylinder head rests) has been reinforced like a version 3 box, but a bit thicker. - Interface integrity of the sector gear and piston gear is excellent and did not present any problem due to the very tight tolerances on the upper receiver-upper gearbox and the lower gearbox - The piston rails are 'lumpy' in some areas and have to be finely sanded to have better piston sliding. - It was a breeze upgrading the spring, piston head, and cylinder with the new gearbox design. http://www.megasphere.net/mark/photo.../11%281%29.jpg Gearbox Screw Problem/Fix: OLD: - The lower gearbox uses 3 screws 2 X 3.0 mm 16 and 1 X 3.0 mm 10. The short screw (3 mm X 10) is not long enough to go through all the threads in the gearbox. Therefore when the gearbox has stress either by upgrading fps or using automatic mode it tends to pull out the threads thus stripping the threads and causing separation at the rear of the gearbox. This could lead to more serious failure as gear stripping and total gearbox failure. Fortunately for me I didn’t have total failure. According to the technician ICS is aware of this failure issue. A good fix and recommended upgrade for ICS CAR-97 M4 owners is to go to your local hobby shop and purchase 3mm X 16 fillister screws (used in RC cars) and cut down the screw so the entire screw goes through the hole located at the top rear of the gearbox. Also allow a bit to come out through the hole to allow you to thread a nut on. Also use locktite blue to further strengthen the threads and nut. This will prevent gearbox failure at the gearbox's weakest point. As stated before ICS is aware of this issue and they are taking steps to prevent this in future releases but doing the above. NEW: -That problem only existed in the original run of the gun (known as version 1) which was not available in Canada. This is not a problem for any Canadian owners and only existed in guns sold elsewhere in the world. It is now fixed and no guns being produced by ICS should have this problem. http://www.megasphere.net/mark/photo...us/gearbox.jpg Piston: - Don’t use the aluminum piston as it seems to bind too much in the ICS cylinder. The set up I prefer and will field test has the Intruder Shop Poly piston and Systema poly piston head; sounds smoother to me. Bushings: - The stock bushings are plastic. Used Systema reinforced bushings. It's hell to install, that's y I used a C-clamp and appropriate spacers to do this. Did not want to hammer it in because this might deform the lower box. Shimming is the easy part, really enjoyed it because of the open design. - The Systema reinforced bushings are what I can recommend for that gearbox. It is a pain to install because the ICS bushing holes are smaller than 6mm, so it's a pain. Use a C-clamp or maybe a table vise with appropriate adaptors/ spacers to do this. Hammering is not recommended for it will DEFORM the lower box. If this happens, you will have a hard time shimming, not to mention the trueness of the gears is suspect. Then use a lubricant, I recommend using silicon mixed with Teflon treatment. Anti-Reversal Latch/Spring Release: - Anti-reverse latch spring is #$@#, it’s so soft, no wonder sometimes the gears would reverse totally if I release the trigger in mid-cycle i.e. spring partially or almost fully compressed. Anyway, I will look for a Marui/Systema replacement today. This may be why your AEG might sometimes shoot out 2 bb’s. Actually, mine would shot out 4-5 bb’s at times when the latch totally failed to engaged. - The spring release is known to break after a while. I’d replace the ICS anti reversal lever with a Marui or Systema one Nozzle: - Nozzle for Marui AEG is longer by 0.5-1mm, and tapered thinner at the end. Thus, the ICS nozzle does not seem to go all the way into the chamber of the Systema hop up. It would appear that if you change to a Systema metal hop-up, you will have to change the nozzle too. - Systema tight nozzle for M4 will be fine Tappet: - Area 1000 tappet works fine - Marui tappet plate works fine Hop-Up: - The ICS hop adjustment is hard to adjust, even when lubricated. - Install a Systema BS barrel by putting a metal o-ring (instead of the default rubber o-ring - w/c require a groove), it’s the same ring you find on G36 hop ups. You can also buy this metal o-ring thing with an upgraded hop up backing/bucking. - I installed a Marui stock hop-up on the ICS M4 and the upper gearbox still fit perfectly, implying the Systema metal hop-up can be used - note: use a Marui size nozzle since the ICS nozzle is thinner overall but thick at the lip so it may not seal properly - to my recollection, nozzle length is same for both. - Also, the bottom tube (connecting to the magazine lip) of the Systema hop-up has to be modified as its flat metal plate snags on the lower receiver. Inner Barrel: - Removed the barrel last night and compared it to the Marui. One thing nice about the ICS barrel is it also has an O-ring that seals the barrel outside surface to the hop-up. I install the Marui barrel to see if it would fit and it does but the O-ring feature would be deleted. I need to get a micrometer to check the inside barrel dimension of the ICS because it may be a 1/2 hair wider internally. I rolled a bb through it and compared this test with the Marui. - ICS inner barrel looks lousy (not sure how other ICS barrels look), the hole for hop-up is unevenly done, barrel finish is very rough - which is probably why it’s disappointingly inaccurate out of the box - Also, be careful re-inserting the inner barrel into the receiver/barrel. If spring on the hop up is twisted, the gearbox will not fit snugly and you cannot close the receiver. - Played with the M4A1 using the TN 6.04 barrel....big difference. The range and accuracy was much better RIS Options: - The Marui RIS for M4RIS or SR 16 works fine on the ICS barrel - with TM RIS end cap. - Using the standard TM method of installing the RIS is not practical - rails wobble too much. What I did was loosen the triangle-sight and lengthened the front outer barrel section. I then fitted the RIS rails and pushed the tri-sight in position. If the RIS was still loose, I shortened the barrel. Then fitted the RIS again, and so forth..... Once I got the tightest fit possible, I tightened the front outer barrel, fitted the RIS and finally, pushed the tri-sight in place. Not a bit of wobble of the RIS anymore. Oh yeah, if there are slight rail movements, just fatten the ears of the outer barrel and end cap - I used elec. tape. - 2 ways to put a TM RIS on your ICS M4 1) w/ Marui barrel: Pro - easiest, sturdy at the collar coz its metal Cons - will still need to tighten nuts occasionally 2) w/ ICS barrel: Pro - no barrel wasted, sturdy Cons - need to replace ICS end cap (for hand guard) and collar ring, with Marui end cap (for RIS), and Marui collar ring * I did this last night and the Marui RIS for an SR16 rails fits on the ICS M4, its just a bit loose so you will need to fine-tune the length of barrel and fatten the ears on the barrel so the rails will sit tight. - Mosquito Molds M4a1 standard R.I.S. fits nice and snug with no modifications needed. Only thing I had to do was lengthen the barrel ONE full turn and the tighten it. Foregrip: - The retractable stock version can hold a 9.6v 1700 mah in the fore grip. Retractable Stock: - Could not get the Marui ret. stock to fit on the ICS receiver, it seems a tight fit, so I did not pursue this. I was thinking of installing front SR rails and a crane style stock on the ICS M4. Also, the tube for the ICS ret. stock is much lighter than the Marui tube, presumably because it’s made of aluminum. - I tried installing Marui retractable stock on the ICS M4 (w/ ret stock) and I found the Marui tube difficult to slide in. It would go in less than 1 inch then seemed to get stuck.. - According to the air smiths at Guns n Guys in Hong Kong, the Prime Crane Stock will fit and without replacing the stock stem. However, a hole needs to be drilled at the bottom of the stem closest to the body for the battery wiring. Odds and Ends: - The gearbox sound emanating from the ICS M4 when fired seems louder than on a Marui. I even compared it to a friend's Marui M4 fitted with similar specs. See Motor for fix… Minor Fixes: - On the lower gearbox, the prong holding the small spring for the electric contact switch, you can use a needle file to put a small canal, so the small spring will not detach easily. - If your rear butt pipe droops down ward, you can place a small washer or better yet a lock washer, in front of the large slotted screw to straighten the butt. taken from www.filairsoft.com and www.airsoftplayers.com |
Nice research man. Thanks for the link over. Much Appreciated!
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thanks for the summary ert. 21 pages is a lot to search through.
Props to you :) |
stickY?
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Heh, I just didn't want to have to sort through all that crap when these problems arise with my ICS (Hopefully they never do, but not everything is perfect)... So I figured I'd put it all down in one chunk for easy reference.
Oh, and I just added a few pertinent pictures... |
great research Ert. I read something like 14 or something pages from the Flipino page. LOL
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The gearbox screw problem has been fixed with the ICS M4A1 version 2. All Canadian ICS M4A1s that are coming in are version 2, so don't worry about that one, very nice research Ert.
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Yowzah, I did not realize that the ICS motor pinion was so crappy :(
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Keep in mind that these issues were raised by the Filipino players. They have very different FPS rules there and they tend to upgrade the crap out of their guns and ride em hard. (Try PDI 210's and 12V batteries...)
I'm going to do only a few upgrades to my gun (spring, bushings, motor, and inner barrel...) so I don't anticipate the amount of problems they had and not to the extent that they experienced. |
Worth Archiving for sure! :)
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Thanks for taking the time. But I wonder if most of this information is from the version 1. Im sure most of these problems will be fixed in the version 2. I mean the mechbox screws were to short. How do you miss that one :roll: Almost seems like they didnt care. If most of this information was based on the version 1. Then it wouldnt matter much to us because all the ones in Canada are V.2. Do you know which version they are talking about?
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I assume they were referring to the Version 1's. They seemed to have their guns before they were available in Canada (at least to my knowlege). So yes, since we have version 2's, these problems *should* be addressed already, but you never know...
Also, some stuff will be the common to both versions. For example the motor will probably not change from the first version, and the options for mounting an RIS system on it won;t change... stuff like that. The general information about what works and what doesn't work with the gearbox in regards to aftermarket upgrades is also still relevant probably. |
Thanks again. Im really looking forward to getting mine. Should have it in my hands by the end of the week. Awwww Yaaaa :grin: Cant wait :xmas:
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As a note to anyone who is interested in the compatibility of the STAR mags, I used a few this past weekend with absolutely no problems, but there was a user who claimed that they only fed one bb from each mag into his gun, so it's still kinda up in the air until more people try em out.
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Ert, that was me with the Star mag issues. What was happening was that the mag fit a bit loose and only the first round would feed. It would feed fine IF you put some upward pressure on the mag (eg hold it from the bottom).
We tried out a box of mags this afternoon on 3 different ICS M4's. Mine and Monkeyman's M4's had the feed problems, and Deathblow's worked fine. Interestingly enough, TM mags work fine for me and Monkeyman, but Deathblow has feed problems. |
Interesting... I'll have to try some TM mags in my gun now to see what they feed like.
So from what you can tell is it simply a mag release problem (ie. switch ICS mag release with a TM mag release to fix it maybe), or is it something internal in the gun itself? |
from all the other sites I have seen just change the mag release to a TM one and its fixed for you.
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On my gun now, in semi mode, it shoots a few rounds at a time as a kind of burst mode. I'm not sure if it'sthe anti reversal latch or the electrical switch or something completely different. I'm cracking it open next week to take a look inside so if anyone has any ideas about what it might be it'd be much appreciated.
Thanks Mark |
any reviews for the version 2? what are the canges ICS made from version 1 to 2?
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Looks like there's a good opportunity for players to have multi role guns with the split box design. One could easily have 2 setups with the collapsible stock variants. Put in a low power top box and slide in a shortish barrel (matching cyl in the top box) or a high power top box (with unported cyl) and slide in a long barrel. Spin on a silencer/barrel cover and voila! Outdoor gun!
All the RIS stuff can also go on or off pretty quick too. Quote:
Great! Now ASC must be showing up on a whole new set of Google word searches. |
That's exactly what I'm hoping to do when they start to sell the gearbox halves seperately. I'll keep one stock, and one upgraded. It would seriously only take about 30seconds to do the swap of the top gearbox half.
As another note I have now tried numerous types of mags in my gun and they all work: TM Lowcap CA Lowcap STAR ICS Highcap TM Highcap CA Highcap G&P Midcap (not thermold or VN though) |
ert! saw your post at FilAirsoft.... any reviews for the version 2? what are the changes ICS made from version 1 to 2?
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I just got a version 2, and i don't really know what they've changed over ver 1, but it's most definitely quieter. FPS seems a little low though...
overall it's a beauty gun, the metal body is incredible, great OA markings on it, solid as a brick, and shoots pretty fast for a small batt. |
Not really any reviews for the version 2 except what you find on the boards here. I'll get around sometime to updating this thread and making it cleaner and more up to date on the gun but I haven't had the time lately.
Basically from what I've gathered, the version 2 has the gearbox screw problem fixed as the big thing. It's not like the CA versions where they made signifigant changes to the gun between versions, but they fixed a few things. I have yet to have my spring release latch or my tappet plate break, so Im not sure if that's a fix on the version 2 or if it's just the luck of the draw. I don't have a version 1 so I can;t compare the two, but I would be very interested in doing a comparison sometime. |
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The problem is most likely in the cutoff lever.
The cutoff lever is basically a lever that is activated by the sector gear. When in semi-mode the lever gets activated and stops the power to the gun when the sector gear gets to the position that releases the piston. It then resets when you release the trigger allowing you to pull the trigger again and once again get enough power for one revolution of the Sector gear. What is happening is the Sector is not activating the cutoff lever. It is possibly jammed up. So my plan is to take it apart and make sure things are lubed in there. As well I have heard that there is a spring that may be a little too underpowered for the job, so I ordered a gearbox spring set from WGC (it made by Systema and is only like $5 or somthing like that there), however I havent recieved it yet, so i'm still playing with it like it is for the time being. But it will be time to fix it very soon I think. There is a link with a lot of information here: http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/...31&whichpage=6 |
Do the ICS M4's have unique Serial numbers on each one?
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Does anyone know if the TM hopups (or other brands for that matter) are completely compatible with the ICS guns?
Thanks |
I have heard that a systema metal hopup will fit if you get a new nozzle. Could be wrong though. Your best bet is to check the Filairsoft link and ask them. They know all. :lol:
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thx for the info ert.
where could i buy the top half of the gear box? could someone make a list of things we could upgrade on this gun (internals and externals)? |
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The systema hopup will fit, but it requires a bit of grinding down on the piece to fit. Details are in Filairsoft.
toelessfoot: I believe the serial numbers are unique. ert: Have you fixed the cutoff lever problem? |
So how can you actually tell the difference between a V1 and a V2?
Vince had what he was told was a V2 ICS M4 in his shop but when I looked at it, it had "ICS" markings on the Magwell... Tru had what he was told was a V2 ICS M4 and it had "Olympic Arms" on the Magwell... Both looked exactly the same otherwise. Now I assume that anything marked ICS is V1 and anything marked OA is V2... Can anyone confirm this? |
I thought the Olympic arms was the first release but I cannot confirm this at the moment.
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where could i get the top part of the gear box?
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I ordered an upgraded on that you can find on the ICS website. I have it ordered through DEA.
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thx for the info.
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Edited the original post a bit to reflect some of the issues that have been addressed and fixed.
As a note for those looking to upgrade their guns I'll post what I'm currently running in mine without any problems: Systema Cylinder Head Systema Piston Head Guarder Spring Guide w/Bearing Guarder Air Seal Nozzle PDI 140% spring Systema Bushings KM TN Tighbore inner barrel 9.6V 1700Mah Nunchuck Battery I had an EG1000 in it for a while but switched back to the ICS T2000 because of the pinion gear differences. Mark |
also to add to list, Guarder reinforced outter barrel, fit without modification, truely a dream to put on. Reason for the barrel upgrade is because the little screws on my stock OB stripped, but I highly recommend the barrel from guarder, really adds alot to the already kick ass platform of the ICS.
Coming soon.... TM RIS installation P.S - I didn't me to impose on your list, ert, but I think that if we all contribute a little, we can make a nice list of compatible parts. |
I have a Guarder sp110 and Systema bushings plus a 9.6v 1700 Butter fly battery. This put the gun right up to 397FPS
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I am now very curious about this whole version 1 version 2 thing. I have the version without the olympic arms trades. however it has a gearbox that was pulled from one WITH olypic arms trades. are olympics arms version any better than the other version? I am basically asking, should I replace some things that could be crap compares to the other version?
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If I were you, I'd just check on the screw problem at the back of the gearbox. I have a feeling that it'll all be good, but if no, then there's an easy fix for you. Everything else should be the same as the other versions.
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Couldn't figure out why my gun was only shooting 265....turns out my spring guide is busted. Damn it....I also fit a TM mag catch and it didn't fix anything...I had to bend out the magazine for the catch to work. That sucks also.
With luck I might get to use the damn thing soon...... I'm sticking in a PDI 150 once I get a new piston and piston head. I'm going to keep the ICS motor in, I like a loud gun...... |
Heres a list of problems I had with my ICS M4. Just so everyone knows, I know my way around a mechbox. So I do know what Im doing and what Im talking about. Ive now had the pleasure of working with every TM mechbox ever made. Except for a version 5.
Here are a list of parts that broke in my gun. I was running it with a pdi 150% spring and metal bushings. And yes it was the ver.2. Piston - The first tooth on the piston snapped off. Tappet plate - The plastic where the spring is attached snapped right off. Motor - The metal neck on the motor snapped in half! Anti reverse latch - What can I say. The metal lever for decompressing the spring is crap. Its so weak that it busted with a 150% spring inside it. Last but not least - The ICS highcap - For some odd reason the hicap wouldnt work in my gun properly. Would stop shooting and you would have to bang it. After replacing all these parts the gun worked fine. But still made a god awful noise. I can always tell who has the ICS on the field because you can here that peice of shit from across the field. Another problem I noticed was a oddly low fps. I didnt have extra version 2 parts to swap in and out of the gun to figure out what the problem was. But I know that it was shooting low right out of the box(210fps). I even put in a 170% spring that I knew was shooting 390fps. And the gun cronyed at around 330fps. After talking with a few other ICS owners I found that I was not the only one. Id say If anyones looking for a M4 just go with TM or CA. Ive heard the CAs are bomb proof. Get a TM and upgrade it with a metal body, reinforced outer barrel, and reinforced mechbox and you got yourself one reliable airsoft gun. |
When I got my ICS M4 I had the motor replaced with an Eagle right off the bat. I also had a PDI 120 installed along with bushings, gears ,etc.
The guns fires quite smoothly & quietly thanks to the Eagle motor. With the 120 it chronied at 342. I'm having a 150 put in right now so I'll see how that goes. I never really noticed a problem with the Hi Cap. If I remember correctly, mine shot around 265-270 right out of the box - maybe even a little higher. |
thanks man, im ordering a ics m4 soon and that helps alot
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Well after owning my ICS M4 for a while, two things popped up;
Perhaps it's just my rifle, but it took an excessive amount of playing around with the shimming to get it working to the point of being gameable - where out of the box it would fire 15-30 rounds then stop, hit forward assist, 30 rounds, stop etc, now it runs silky smooth. Reciever - I have no clue what they made the reciever out of, but I don't think it's aluminum - after dropping my m4 during a night game, the lower snapped in two behind the rear reciever pin. Gun still works fine, just have no slither stock now.. I got in touch with ICS and they requested pics of the damage for their R&D boys, never heard back, but hopefully they do something about the material they use. Trying to get a new lower reciever is like pulling teeth, but hopefully will have one in a month or two ... Overall, I'm impressed with the ICS M4, most especially with the split gearbox design, but when I look at the amount of money I have sunk into it, if I had to do it again I would choose a G&G SPR or a good 'ole TM with an aftermarket body... |
i've put in my ICS m4 a pdi 170% and metal bushing, reinforced systema gear using a 9.6V 1700mah bat.
From what i know, theres no problem firing with it. My only concern is the rate of fire which i thought would be faster, but works like a charm, i luv the sound of it, makes noise !!! Anyone have put a G&P RAS Free Floating set on ICS yet? i bought one and havent received it yet. |
Update :
G&P RAS free Floating set works on ICS M4. BUT, if you have original hop-up you need to reduce the tabs to make it fit. Otherwise ... its solid rock! |
Hey Kokanee, there's someone on here parting out an ICS M4 and they're selling a lower reciever...
Found the link: http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=16715 or pm mthead |
Very nice to know you guys examination so much about ICS products .
Hope you have enjoy it . At moment we are searching for a distributor in Canada . We suppose to find a distributor with good technic and satisfying customer service . Thnaks you guys support . ICS |
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You mentioned this in previous correspondance and I forwarded your contact info along to someone whom the community considers very reliable. It would be great to have a dist. here in country for ICS. |
Performance update time...
Within the last month my m4 has thrown 2 pistons (the last lasting less than 500 rounds) "hmm" i think to myself, that can't be right... Received a new area 1000 piston (the previous two were the stock piston and a guarder blue) and since i already had the mechbox open I also installed a guarder sp100 just to get off the PDI wagon. Before installation i completely stripped and degreased the upper mechbox - and i noticed something i hadn't before when the rail guides had grease in them - bumps and a few small voids. A few raised nodules on the centre rail guides - perhaps the cause of my problems? I regreased and installed the components first without doing anything about the rail guide problem, and everything worked alright, good but not great ROF on auto. Then I proceeded to disassemble and degreased again, this time though I sanded the rail guides and the casing where the piston travels with 250 thru 1600 grit sandpaper. This left a mirror finish on the inside and completely smoothed out the areas I was concerned about. After regreasing and reassembly another testfire revealed a HUGE increase in ROF and a decrease in the amount of noise coming from the motor.. So it looks like problem solved! So just a heads up everyone, next time you crack your upper perhaps degrease and take a good hard look at the bare metal. |
Kokanee, what version do you own?
I'm looking to get one myself and don't really mind putting money into the internals if needed but I am still interested in knowing if you are refering to the current model (3? 3.5?) or a former one. |
I bought it in February, it's got the Olympic arms trades on it, as for version I don't know.
Problems I have had with this gun come down to one thing - i tried to treat it like a TM AEG - that just doesnt work. |
Another question, I just ordered an M4 and now I find out it has an orange tip... and no trades other than ICS... why the hell would you use AE in USA as a supplier? :lol:
It was only $555.33 new, shipped to me, so I'm not really complaining. Anyway, I haven't got it yet, but I've got a game next weekend and I'm wondering, what are the threads on the ICS M4? CCW? CW? While I'm on that note, does anyone have a stock ICS M4 flash hider they are looking to dump off? Even a AK/P90 one, I couldn't care less, as long as it's not red, fairly cheap and fits. |
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As for the price, seems kinda high. I just bought my second ICS M4 this week, but the RIS variant for $599... from a Canadian dealer here in Alberta... SO a few extra goodies for 50 mor ethan you paid, mind you I bought my last ICS M4 for $700 last year...different supplier... |
you guys probably got them from the same retailer. i think Kid got his from gp and there was probably freight and gst.
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Is this good?
TM EG1000 Prometheus Sealing Nozzle Prometheus Hard Selector Plate Prometheus Aero Clyinder Head Ver II Prometheus Stainless Hard Cylinder 301-400mm Inner Barrel Prometheus Max Torque Piston Prometheus EG Barrel Systema Silent Head Set for Ver. 2 Guarder SP120 / PDI 170% Guarder Anti-Reverasal Latch Systema Excelide Shim Sets Enhanced Tappet for Ver.2 Gearbox Guarder 6mm Steel Bushing Second off, can someone go over the list, and see if I'm missing something, don't need something, or if another maker is better/cheaper for that something. I need this gun to be reliable, accurate, silent, and highest effective range, for the cheap ammount possible. EDIT: Added two possible motors, took out uneeded stuff, added steel bushings, added silent Piston and Cylinder heads. |
i have doubts about the ability of their upper mechbox to withstand the strain of that spring. the gun should shoot about 390-400fps and that's pushing that box right to the limit. i would also get another upper mechbox (empty) assemble your new parts in that one and keep your stock upper just in case. the lower mechbox should be fine to upgrade though. just remember that tappet, selector, anti-reversal latch must be ics. other manufacturers will not work properly. also change your motor end plate as ics motor is larger on the bell ends than marui compatible motors and you want your motor mounts to be as stable as possible. i tried this weekend to put an ics motor into a marui and she was a no go and i had to scrounge up another marui.
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Pushing it to the limits? On FilAirsoft, they had much much higher rated springs in their guns without a problem.
Thanks though, thats a good idea, with getting another upper mechbox. |
remeber this a CANADIAN forum and playing at +30 celsius is not always common. sometimes we play at temps near or below zero celsius and low temps with upgraded spring too often lead to disaster. if you live in a warm area, you MAY not have a problem, but i err on the side of caution. besides, have you ever removed your upper gear box? pay close attention to the amount of mechbox present around the spring guide and you'll see what i mean. good luck with your upgrades and let us know how they go.
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how sturdy is the fixed stock on your m4?
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I have a problem right now. I currently have a ICS Sr-16 and I just got a EG-1000 motor through a trade. However the pinion of the motor is loose, and is bascially useless. What minimum parts do I have to get to make the motor compatible?
Also: ICS pinion head, once removed from my motor, is it compatible with my EG-1000? What do you guys think of SRC gears? They are pretty cheap... |
keep the stock gears, no problem with them. pinions may be compatible, need to get a small gear puller and see. eg1000 will fit, but may torque some as motor cover is larger to fit larger turbo 2000 motor. is your ics motor dead? if not use it till it does, if it does.
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So nothing is wrong with ICS 2000 motors?
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some guys say they're crap, but i've only seen or even heard of 1 in hundreds fail. seen way more tm and systema motors pack it in. others say that every ics gun they've seen has had a bad motor. who's right? use it if you have it as it came with the gun and cost you nothing. if it dies, oh well. use your eg1000.
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Why is M140 spring FPS lower than M120 on my M4?
My 2 kids and myself all purchased ICS M4 rifles a couple weeks ago. Two of them were purchased locally. I upgraded 2 of them with an ICS M120 spring, Guarder shims and metal bushing. Rather inexpensive upgrade. Total cost about US$30. Mine is consisitently shooting 429FPS and my younger son's is shooting 400FPS. Now here is the odd part. My older son wanted his professionally upgraded and got his from RedWolf. What a big mistake! Cost about US$225 more getting his gun from RedWolf. The upgrade was a "Level 4" and suppose to shoot 450FPS. We checked the speed and it was only shooting 370FPS!!! The upgrade included Systema Directional Piston Head, Deep Fire Titanium Piston, Systema gears, Prometheus spring, etc. I thought they probably put in a stock spring in error so I replaced it with a Systema M140. Still only 370FPS. I also noticed there was almost zero lube on the gears and none on the spring upper assembley. Really a sloppy upgrade. I lubed everything up properly and no difference. Finally I took out the hop up and bucking. Reinstalled them with grease on the bucking to seal any air leaks between the bucking / barrel / hop up. That shot the FPS up to 414FPS. But I am still puzzled at why my gun with a M120 spring and stock piston is shooting 429FPS and the other gun with the full upgrades and M140 is only shooting 414FPS. Any ideas? We love the guns and fired them all weekend long. About 3000 rounds through them without a single problem. Perfect, love the guns! (BTW, I'm certain on the chrono numbers. I have my own and compared it to the big red one at the airsoft store, identical readings.)
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What cylinder is in the Redwolf Special? That may have some bearing on your lower than expected FPS.
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The cylinder is the stock ICS cylinder. I finally figured it out. The bucking on the ICS appears to have trouble with higher pressure setups. I played around with the guns a bunch more and was able to make the buckings fit tighter in the hop up. That bumped the FPS on the M140 to 449 and on the other two M120 rifles the FPS went into the mid 430 range. The RedWolf "upgrade" was apparently just a sloppy job of throwing in parts and not testing the gun. Had they tested the configuration they would have known that the gun shipped was nothing close to the 450 FPS advertised. All they would have needed to do to have made a poor experience into a good one was spend about 1 minute more on the upgrade to properly lube things and replace the stock ICS bucking with one designed for more higher pressure. Given they don't answer their emails it was rather frustrating at first as a newbiew troubleshooting it as so many things were replaced and several could have been the source of the problem. If we would have researched RedWolf more we would not have ordered from them as they don't have a good reputation for the quality of their upgrades and they were more expensive than the local shops. Live and learn...
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"Tsmith" thank you for your time to write, I was just about to give them a call to get them to upgrade my. Thanks again.
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after couple of headache, worndering how is the pinion compatibility on my 2009 ics m4, I answer about this problem again (Found lot of comment but dated to 2003 or so). The review is old and things may have changed. I broked my ics pinion while swaping gears on a TM motor (ICS motor has died) so i'm running with a TM pinion and motor. It is a lot less noisy that the original one (I'm now with the TM EG700). I'm wondering if newer ics replica are compatible with TM or random brand spur gear.
Here couple of description that make me doubt about the "old?" ics compatibility problem. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...icsgearset.gif http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...piniongear.gif |
The newer ones are compatible.
But you really should get a Modify steel pinion and gear set. They are worth the price 10 times. Just don't get the modular ones, you can't fit the ICS ARL in there. |
Just bought an ICS M4 (ICS-41) used it for 2 games so far and would like a bit better reach with it. From what I read here and a few other places ICS comes with a reasonably sturdy mechbox "out of the box".
I'm looking for a cheap upgrade @ this point, I can sink some more money in the spring (I have some other gear and a reasonable sized Bastard purchase to deal with right now) I'm thinking a 120 spring (maybe even 130) and a 6.04 barrel If I'm shooting 330fps stock (assumed, haven't had access to a crony yet) can I expect closer to 375-400 with just these changes? aside=> watched the Bastard vid for "accurizing your airsoft" and they are pretty adamant about "fixing" (in place) your inner barrel, tried the masking tape "hack" but my ICS is pretty tight in the breach any thing more than 1 layer think would start to bind where the end of the barrel needs about 3 layers to be snug. solution plastic from a retail blister pack took a piece about 2cm wide and long enough to wrap the barrel except a 2 mm space (I put the "groove" to the top) then another piece of the same plastic cut into a triangle 1cm (wide end) 3cm long by 2mm (narrow end) and put it in point first into the groove and pushed it in till it was snug (plastic sticks out about 1mm just enough to grab with the tweezers) then put the flash hider back on. will post when I can test it, if there is any appreciable diff in accuracy or consistency |
I just had some upgrades put on my ICS, changed the accuracy and consistently alot.
Prometheus 6.03 tightbore Guarder Nozzle Modify piston head Bearing piston head 110 spring bearing spring guide scs and guarder clear hop up rubber Wasn't cheap but man what a difference. Shoots about 355 fps and great range. Now if I could just find a motor that wasn't so freakin loud I'd be set.. |
looks like I was reasonably close
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...ht=ics+bible#2 |
Oh yeah, a 120 should get you to 380 on it's own. add a tightbore and it should give you a little boost there too.
In the spring put some cash into the compression/airseals. It'd be a nice shooter. |
just saw the spring chart, need to figure out which "120" actually equates to 120% strength of my current spring :-/
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=4911 |
So yeah today I picked up a couple things from Airsoft Parts for my ICS M4...
- Madbull DD MK18 Rail: This fit with pretty much no problem, really straight forward... I have to say though, the fit was EXTREMELY tight and snug, which is good I guess, since it holds up really nice. - King Arms 10.5" Outer Barrel with Steel Chamber: This ALSO was a very very tight fit, but it fit no problems. The only problem I had was the fitting of my ICS Hop-up. I had to sand down the two sides of the ICS M4 a bit so that they would into the barrel. - Madbull 6.03 300m Inner Barrel obviously has had no problems. *Please note the tight fit refers to it was really tight in comparison to the original ICS barrel and stuffage :P* http://orbsidia.com/111.JPG So yeah in the end, the Hop-up required some modification for it to fit. |
kaiu, your upper receiver is still the ICS receiver? And you don't have any problems installing the RIS handguard?
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Yeah it is the ICS receiver, no problems installing anything except it was a tighter fit for the new outer barrel compared to the stock ICS barrel.
The RIS fit really snug/tight, but that is a good thing imo... Literally kind of like a perfect fit :D Mine is the SW M&P 15 version... http://orbsidia.com/ics2.JPG I don't have my crane stock yet (Getting it Feb 28 along with some other stuff), but i moved the existing front wires to the rear to test.... The Hop-up was modified, but works no problem... Also the bottom closes properly so no fitting issues after installing the rail either... (Got my silencer today, and it looks awesome :P I guess I will have to get a longer backup inner barrel for when I use the silencer...) I got the short one so it is easier to bring around :P |
That's good man. I'm planning to put a free floating RIS handguard to my ICS M4, but I'm not sure what could fit. But now I know. Thanks man.
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Basically any Metric based front set (same as TM) should work on the ICS M4...
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hi guys i have one question, i want to buy daniel defense mk18 ris and this is the same like madbull and it will fit perfect to my ics m4?:)
and what about front barrel? can i regulate it? mk18 have 7,5" and my front RIS 7" |
If you are talking about outer barrel, you can pretty much buy any aeg outer barrel...
Only thing you might have to do, is modify your hopup to fit. (e.g. I had to sand my hop-up down to fit the King Arms outer barrel) |
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I Have this outer Barrel http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...or_TM_M4A1.htm and i can regulate it, but i dont know how much? Sorry for my english:)
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My outer barrel is a KA 10.5" from Airsoft Parts (site down for maintenance though). It has some play and can be adjusted from 10"-10.5" in length...
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With a shorter barrel, you can then add barrel extensions if you want to lengthen it more, or just buy the right size... |
so can i fit this daniel defense 7,5" ris on ics stock outer barrel?
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Quick question. The tappet plate on my ICS has broke. I've purchased and installed a Modify one to replace it (it's yellow if that helps).
I just wanted a confirmation of what a local gun doc said that the plate had to be sanded down on the bottom of the "J" where the spring hooks on in order to work properly due to possible fitment issues. I've dry fired the gun a couple of times (semi-only) and it seems to work but I would not like to break a brand new part if possible. Any hints/tips on making sure this works right? |
i do not know if this is the same gun, but two of my friends both got the ics full metal m4a1 from our local army navy store, and the first one had the stock break off and an major drop of of ROF and a 50 fps decrease. that happend on his second replacement version too. then he just gave up and got an echo 1 red star ak 47 ris. great gun btw. anyway. friend number two got it two moths ago (he didnt realise that it was the same gun that friend one had) and the exact same thing happend to him, all in one day. with all three of the guns. then he gave up and bought a scar h but i do not know what manufacture (he has only had it for one week) great gun too. any way, i would advise not getting this gun. but that is just from my experience.
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ICS M4 mods
Been looking over my model 44, no short screws. Just looking for a bore up cylinder piston set or a complete unit to drop in place? Any one know?
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Was looking for buying this already when I stumbled across this forum. Great review!! Thank you :)
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