CA M14 Trigger delay
 

So I got's me a almost new CA M14 Scout (a very nice gun it seems). But it has a slight trigger issue. If you pull it reasonably fast, it works great (semi or auto), not a problem. But if you pull slower, there's a delay. The slower you pull, the more the delay, up to a point where the delay is 2-4 seconds, or just not fires at all. Literally you hold down the trigger.... ..... ..... .... boom. :S

This thing has an incredible rate of fire with a Sanyo 2400Mah 8.4v. Never fired an AEG this fast.

Any tips greatly appreciated. Seems like some really minor issue that I assume would be a quick fix.

Thanks,
Cheers,
Alex

Sorry for giggling, but you are saying that when yo upull the trigger slow there is a delay, and when you pull it fast there isn't a delay? See why I'm laughing, the way you described it is like "Why does it take longer to walk to the store and less time to run there?"

When I mean delay, I mean delay from the time the trigger reaches the end of its travel, and the start of the piston moving. I'm not as stupid as I make myself out to be :rolleyes:

Wasn't pointing you out as stupid, just pointing out the humour about your description is all. You know I dont make people out to be retards, I just see the funny side of things.

So, you think it's a mechanical delay or electrical?

stalker is just an old hazerdous : )

i believe i head that somewere??? lol @@@@

Hehe, I'ma kiddin' mate. It's all good.

I don't really know. How would I be able to tell? It's seems to be pretty much dead silent first.

Got me there. Have the gears been swapped out at all or anything?

I just got it, supposedly 100% stock, only 300 rounds fired.

Hmm, so youlike to squeeze the trigger like it's a woman's nipple to get that sniper feel out of it, and don't like the jerk feel from shooting it, am I correct?

Wait a minute, I just realized that gun has shitty little wires through out it, like #22AWG or so, best case #20AWG wire. Could be the wire resistance is too high to get a fast response out of it. Chef/Jackals brought his over for me to inspect before he sold it, and I noticed the shitty little wires in it (was stock). Generally AEGs have #18AWG wire running through them, is why I noticed the tiny little wires used.

Shit, you got me thinking more. Does the distance change when you do both methods of trigger pull? It's the amount of travel the contact block does via the trigger that determines the "delay". It can only move so far and does so no matter how fast it's pulled, it only goes that distance to make contact with the 'contacts'. Starting to sound like a design/normal thing as opposed to a "problem".

You could try a new switch assembly

Alex and I were talking about shitty wiring. Perhaps that's the case? As Stalker mentioned, it has sub-par wiring.. so.. who the fuck knows.

I don't trust M14s cloned from GG M14s... :p

Your switch assembly might be pooched as ThunderCactus said, It seems that your trigger assembly is completely covered in carbon from arc's.. So when you pull the trigger fast, it scrapes some of the carbon off exposing copper which makes a full connection and causes it to fire, while when you pull slow.. it barely/doesnt remove the oxidation layer so it only fires when it completes a circuit, which is whenever the trigger assembly finally dislodges from the contacts and makes a complete circuit... thats my 2 cents of whats wrong haha :)

What? The CA looks/feels like a great AEG. The wiring (at least the one in the stock) is quite thick, not the crap used in chinese clones. Thus the really great fire rate I bet.

Looks like it's time to open it up for an inspection. How do I strip this thing? The trigger guard DOESN'T go down like a TM. Even if I pull to the rear first, then try to swivel it.

CDN_Stalker:
How can it possibly be the wire resistance if I pull the trigger fast, and it fires immediately, and on full auto the fire rate is faster then anything I've ever fired?

The amount of travel doesn't change. The feel of the pull doesn't change, nothing mechanically in the trigger seems to change at all, just if I pull slow, I have to wait. If it were like you discribe it (not moving far enough to make contact), then it would never fire when I pull slow, instead of sitting there with the trigger pulled for a couple seconds, and then suddenly firing.
I should make a video perhaps for your to see exactly what I'm talking about?

Thundercactus,
I hope I don't need one, but how much do you think one will run me?

Nova316,
That could be it.

Kos,
Bah!

Thanks guys,
Cheers,
Alex

Dunno, shot in the dark, just something I remembered about the CA M14 that stood out and bothered me was the wiring. Of course if it's just started doing this, it could be the carbon build up, but there has only been a few hundred rounds fired through it so that wouldn't be the case.

Oh, one thing I don't know if CA copied the flaw from G&G or no, but one of the contacts in the trigger assembly literally gets cut by arching. Will take a couple thousand rounds (if semi only), but happens with the G&G. The copper used is thin, and each time the contact block gets near the contacts, an arc happens and eats away at the metal right where the bend is.

Alright, I'll have to take a look as soon as someone tells me how to take it down :P

This should help, even if it's the manual for the G&G M14.

http://www.ottawavalleyairsoft.ca/im...Manual_G&G.pdf

Actually that doesn't help at all! Lol, sorry. Ok, from taking the stock off, release the large spring that operates the cocking handle (there's a guide yo have to unhook and remove to get the spring off). There are hex head screws on the sides and underneath, remove those to get the barrel assembly off. To get the upper receiver off there are two screws on one side and one on the other. Have to use a punch or allen key to push the pin out of the bolt release latch, remove that and make sure the spring is at hand, then get the screw under it. Upper receiver should come off. Black sheet metal thing on top of the cylinder has to be pushed............ forward I think (been a while since I worked on one), push the large pin up front (holds the bolt spring guide) then there it's the usual mechbox disassembly methods. Putting back together can be a bit of a pain, largely just because of the loading nozzle at the front of the mechbox, always gives me a headache because there is a little spring that holds it in place.

Thanks, but still doesn't help me in the sense that I can't make the trigger guard move no matter what I do.

Rearmost part of it needs to be pulled to the rear (effectively bending it very slightly, but it'll spring back) to unhook it, then pull the rear down and it'll swing away from the trigger. Then you just have to wiggle the entire thing out. At the base of the trigger guard is a dual latch thingy which locks into the mechbox. By swinging the trigger guard away you are unlatching it.

So put the gun upside down, pull back on the guard, swing out and remove. Is actually quite easy, putting it back in might take a few attempt to get everything lined up though.

That's what I've been trying to do. And now after spending 10 mins doing it, I finally got it to move. Buy it's a lot stiffer then a TM.

Thanks, will continue the take down.

Cheers,
Alex

Alright well - it fires fine with the trigger group off. I.e if I just use the internal trigger. No matter how slow I pull it, it fires perfect on semi or full, so it looks like a non internal problem?

Starting to sound like it. I found on one of the M14s I worked on I could fire it easily without the trigger guard on, but putting it on would start to seem more and more like the trigger wouldn't quite make it far enough to engage the linkage. Was the G&G that had that problem, assume the CA would since it's a copy.

Alrighty, and what solution did you come to, if any?

I recall grinding down part of the trigger itself to allow it to travel further forward to push the linkage to shoot it.

Ah, grinding was one of the last things I was hoping to do, but I guess I'll have to. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience mate, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Alex

Will only be appreciated if it fixes your problem. lol

Seriously, the G&G I had to deal with was fired for a few thousand rounds on semi only, and it wore out a lot of parts, as well as that arcing problem that cut 4 out of 5mm width of the contacts. Then while working on it and testing it, semi got harder and harder to acheive, and in the end it was full auto only. Extremely shitty materials used in the G&G anyways, so it's not surprising that the previous owner wore it out from semi only use.

Oh ya, I assume there is a CA motor in that gun. The gun I worked on had a G&G motor, and because the gun was shooting around 420fps or so, the motor coil ended up developing a dead (literally burned!) section that would cease the gun form shooting until the motor shaft was rotated, then would get another few cycles out of it until it stopped again. I told the previous owner his G&G motor caught on fire due to the heavier spring, so he bought a short shaft EG1000 and the problem was fixed for good.

Hah, that G&G sure sounds like crap. Hopefully CA did some improvements internally wise, which I assume they have. Besides this slight trigger problem, the gun itself is very, very nice, and shoots great stock, 310fps with .2gs and has to be at least 15-20rounds a second!

Cheers,
Alex

Thank you sir, a bit of filing on the trigger, and it fires reliably now, at the end of it's travel. Gotta say, this thing shoots nice.

Thanks again mate!
Alex

You are shitting me, that actually worked?!? I was kidding!!!

;)



Awesome, glad to help. Hehe

Hehe I'm as surprised as you are :P