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-   -   Isnt this called smuggling? (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=43710)

Drache August 30th, 2007 15:58

Isnt this called smuggling?
 
I was looking through the FAQ on Redwolf airsoft and games across this:

Quote:

There is possible risk of seizure in my country (e.g. Australia)...can you ship my guns disassembled so it won't be spotted and seized?

Yes we can disassemble certain guns and ship in separate packages to minimize risk of seizure. However, this is done entirely at the customer's own risk and RedWolf Airsoft cannot be held liable for any seizures. A service fee applies for this special instruction and in general recommend against this sort of action
How can a company legally do that?

BloodSport August 30th, 2007 16:01

It's the same as shipping individual parts which most of are not illegal to import.

Drache August 30th, 2007 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodSport (Post 528528)
It's the same as shipping individual parts which most of are not illegal to import.

Most of the ingredients in Crystal Meth are legal but the overall product created is illegal.

Bauholzwolf August 30th, 2007 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache (Post 528547)
Most of the ingredients in Crystal Meth are legal but the overall product created is illegal.

True, but Airsoft is more grey-area than crystal meth...

BloodSport August 30th, 2007 16:22

yup only illegal when you the receiver decide to combine them then.

Fly 9 August 30th, 2007 16:25

Especially in Australia where they're incredibly strict on replica weapons. When I was living there I was reading the news and some star wars enthusiast was stopped by the police, arrested and charged for carrying a replica firearm (storm trooper's blaster) in his backpack with the rest of his costume on his way to a photoshoot or something....they then had the photoshoot with only 2 storm troopers and a picture of him getting arrested a couple columns down.
As far as I remember, in Australia, you need a firearms licence to own/buy an airsoft gun.

Lakonian August 30th, 2007 17:03

I've been wondering this for a long fucking time... but.. would LE be able to seize your guns if proved to have been acquired after Dec(?) '98?

Ugh. I feel like a noob asking that... but I wouldn't want some asshole seizing a 3,000+$ investment..

Drache August 30th, 2007 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kos (Post 528585)
I've been wondering this for a long fucking time... but.. would LE be able to seize your guns if proved to have been acquired after Dec(?) '98?

Ugh. I feel like a noob asking that... but I wouldn't want some asshole seizing a 3,000+$ investment..

Technically yes

Ronan August 30th, 2007 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by kos (Post 528585)
I've been wondering this for a long fucking time... but.. would LE be able to seize your guns if proved to have been acquired after Dec(?) '98?

Ugh. I feel like a noob asking that... but I wouldn't want some asshole seizing a 3,000+$ investment..

Yeah i was wondering that... Like the cops show up at a game and take all the airsoft guns... Can they do that? Can they break in my APT and take my gun because someone saw me clean it from my window (i live on the first floor). If i get pulled over for lets say speeding or my rear light is dead or just a 'check license'. Can they search my car (US plates, US insurance) in Canada and seize my rifle case and gun?

Drache August 30th, 2007 17:18

airsoft guns are NOT illegal in the eyes of the RCMP unless you do something stupid with them! They are only illegal to customs and it was customs agents who raided the airsoft stores in Vancouver and shut them down.

Brian McIlmoyle August 30th, 2007 17:19

well not likely
 
Airsoft guns as a class of articles are not defined under the criminal code as replicas.

The only definition that 100% applies to airsoft guns is "not a firearm" ( in most cases...)

Some airsoft guns when compaired in a side by side visual comparison have been found to meet the definition of Replica Firearm under the Criminal code.

This does not in any way mean that all "airsoft" are replicas... only that when compaired in a court of law certain specific objects ( that just happen to be airsoft guns) were found to be replicas.

So it is not illegal to posses an object that has not been proven to be a replica... Even so if the police did consider your airsoft gun to be a replica on cursury observation ... it is not illegal to posses replica firearms ... and unless the police had specific clear evidence that you came into possesion of said article post 1998... well there would be no offense chargeable.

Brian McIlmoyle August 30th, 2007 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache (Post 528526)
I was looking through the FAQ on Redwolf airsoft and games across this:



How can a company legally do that?

It is illegal to import in some places ( Canada, without proper licenses )... it is not illegal in the country of origin to export to those countries...

The shipper is not doing anything Illegal.. they are just filling an order..

Andres August 30th, 2007 17:36

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8...fwar009ju6.jpg

"They're not military helicopters!"

Styrak August 30th, 2007 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andres (Post 528609)
"They're not military helicopters!"

Hunh?

Lakonian August 30th, 2007 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle (Post 528600)

and unless the police had specific clear evidence that you came into possesion of said article post 1998... well there would be no offense chargeable.

That's what I mean. If I had a Star G36k (which I do, and am fondling right now..:D) , and they proved it was purchased after 1998 (a simple search will reveal it only came out in 2003 , or something like that), would they be able to shit on me?

I live in an apartment too (landies have been RS owners for 45 years. And one is a Greek Navy vet. so keeping them here isn't a problem), with windows everywhere. If someone saw me transporting my AK, or G36, to the living room (for inspection/maintenance) would I get burned? What if it was a RS firearm?

Omi-san August 30th, 2007 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodSport (Post 528551)
yup only illegal when you the receiver decide to combine them then.

Miss South Carolina?

Brian McIlmoyle August 30th, 2007 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kos (Post 528623)
That's what I mean. If I had a Star G36k (which I do, and am fondling right now..:D) , and they proved it was purchased after 1998 (a simple search will reveal it only came out in 2003 , or something like that), would they be able to shit on me?

I live in an apartment too (landies have been RS owners for 45 years. And one is a Greek Navy vet. so keeping them here isn't a problem), with windows everywhere. If someone saw me transporting my AK, or G36, to the living room (for inspection/maintenance) would I get burned? What if it was a RS firearm?

Possession of replica firearms is not illegal regardless of when it came out or when you got it.

It does not stipulate in the CC that replicas possesed before 1998 are legal and those after are not.

In 1998 replica firearms became proscribed... after that date it is essentially impossible for an individual to aquire one legally. So the possession of the object is legal... how it came into your possession is not.. as it must have been illegaly transfered... but unless someone was willing to testify as to the date time and place that the transfer took place... no one is going to charge you for "suspicion of the transfer of a prohibited device without proper licenses" unless there is a very good reason to do so

And... again... I say again... Airsoft guns are not defined in the code or its regulations as replicas.

Airsoft does not = replica... although if compaired in a side by side visual comparison I expect that almost all airsoft guns would meet the test of the definition of what a replica is

"an object that looks like a firearm but is itself not a firearm"

And you should NEVER walk around in your house with a firearm of any type that may be visible to passers by... that is a great way to have a visit from the ETF

Andres August 30th, 2007 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Styrak (Post 528622)
Hunh?

Lord of war, when Yuri (Cage) is trying to get helicopters from the Ukraine overseas, he just separates the guns from the helicopter and ships them separately, avoiding any illegalities!

Maverick0 August 30th, 2007 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle (Post 528632)
And you should NEVER walk around in your house with a firearm of any type that may be visible to passers by... that is a great way to have a visit from the ETF

You beat me to it.

It's not illegal or anything to walk around your house or your property with firearms and whatnot, it's just inadvisable. Basically, it's asking for the cops to come knocking at your door with a few questions of their own.

All it takes is one uninformed neighbor who sees you to sound the alarm.

Ronan August 30th, 2007 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick0 (Post 528636)
You beat me to it.

It's not illegal or anything to walk around your house or your property with firearms and whatnot, it's just inadvisable. Basically, it's asking for the cops to come knocking at your door with a few questions of their own.

All it takes is one uninformed neighbor who sees you to sound the alarm.

Ah that i didn't know. I'll be sure to close the blinds when i'm cleaning my gun then.

Here's another question, can cops/ETF enter my apartment? Or is it like in the US where they need a warrant or something like that to 'force' their way in?

Ok second question, if i let them in and tell them and show them (carefully, everyone relax) its an airsoft gun. What can they do? (Or most likely do?)

killnburn August 30th, 2007 18:49

i know im new here and people are probably gonna tell me im wrong and everything but i had a little chat with a guy from the customs you know so iwas curious so i asked if importing an airsoft guns is legal in canada and how do they judge if it pass the borders or not and he told me that as long as an orange tip is there well there should be no problems, i know one of my friend orders some jg from california and he received them( they ended up costing only 180$ each in can$)








and seriously orange tip is not that bad when you have dark paint:cool:

Drache August 30th, 2007 19:05

Orange tips are a legality in the US not Canada and on the Customs website it states that even a clear gun can be seized as a replica, it all depends on the who is opening the parcel to verify the contents. Not all packages are search and that is how your friend probably got his, just luck.

Lakonian August 30th, 2007 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle (Post 528632)
Possession of replica firearms is not illegal regardless of when it came out or when you got it.

It does not stipulate in the CC that replicas possesed before 1998 are legal and those after are not.

In 1998 replica firearms became proscribed... after that date it is essentially impossible for an individual to aquire one legally. So the possession of the object is legal... etc...

Thanks. That was all I needed to know :)

frankiet August 30th, 2007 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronan (Post 528641)
Here's another question, can cops/ETF enter my apartment? Or is it like in the US where they need a warrant or something like that to 'force' their way in?

Ok second question, if i let them in and tell them and show them (carefully, everyone relax) its an airsoft gun. What can they do? (Or most likely do?)

A warrant would be required to enter your apartment. If somebody sees you fondling your gun (airsoft or Real Steel) and panics and calls the cops, technically I would argue that this is not grounds to enter your apartment without a warrant (unless you're pointing it unsafely - CC no no). Contrary to most city folks beliefs, people CAN own guns in this country. If I want to caress it gently in my house, I am legally allowed to do so.

This however doesn't guarantee that they won't come in with guns drawn, but it is my interpretation that this would be illegal on their parts.

On the other hand, if you decide to voluntarily let them come in and volunteer any information whatsoever, you deserve anything you get. I would personally never give them the opportunity to FIND charges.

Chuuchuu August 30th, 2007 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andres (Post 528609)
http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8...fwar009ju6.jpg

"They're not military helicopters!"


To inquiring minds, if you don't know where this is from, watch "Lord of War" now.

Brian McIlmoyle August 30th, 2007 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick0 (Post 528636)
You beat me to it.

It's not illegal or anything to walk around your house or your property with firearms and whatnot, it's just inadvisable. Basically, it's asking for the cops to come knocking at your door with a few questions of their own.

All it takes is one uninformed neighbor who sees you to sound the alarm.

This is True..... but doing so at your rural farmhouse.. and doing so in your lowrise appartment in the city of Toronto are 2 very different things.

In Toronto all it takes is someone to see you fondling your AK and call 911 reporting a "man with a machine gun" the cops will come.. with guns drawn and they will not wait for the paperwork...

Maverick0 August 30th, 2007 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle (Post 528774)
In Toronto all it takes is someone to see you fondling your AK and call 911 reporting a "man with a machine gun" the cops will come.. with guns drawn and they will not wait for the paperwork...

One very good interpretation of 'Knocking' on someone's door:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._swat_team.jpg

Andres August 30th, 2007 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick0 (Post 528826)
One very good interpretation of 'Knocking' on someone's door:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._swat_team.jpg

Knock knock
who's there?
RCMP
RCMP wh-
*door explodes*

NachoPuddin August 30th, 2007 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andres (Post 528831)
Knock knock
who's there?
RCMP
RCMP wh-
*door explodes*


this made my day.

ILLusion August 31st, 2007 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache (Post 528526)
I was looking through the FAQ on Redwolf airsoft and games across this:



How can a company legally do that?

There are two laws:

export laws
import laws.

Hong Kong customs/border agents allows the export of airsoft guns.

Canada customs/border agents DO NOT allow the IMPORT of airsoft guns.

YOU, as the IMPORTER hold all responsibility as far as the Canadian import officers are concerned. They don't give a rat's ass about the port of origin's export laws.

Even if it were 100% illegal for Redwolf to export pink sponges out of Hong Kong, as long as the products made it past the export officers, then the CBSA would allow the product in to the country.

"Smuggling" is the act of illegally bringing an item in to OR out of a country. As far as Redwolf is concerned, it's NOT illegal for them to export out of the country. But once it leaves Hong Kong territory, it is in the hands of international territory and free of laws. However, once it attempts entry in to Canada, it is then at the mercy of CANADIAN import laws, and the IMPORTER is the one responsible for control and declaration of the product.


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