HELP! RE:A&A Airsoft, Miss-advertised Tanaka M700 AICS sale
 

Well, history first. After reading everything and anything I could get my hands on regarding Tanaka's line of m700's, I decided to find a Tanaka m700 AICS PCS. As hard as it might seem to find a PCS version, I decided to do a lot of searching, and through that effort, I discovered A&A Airsoft had 1 remaining in stock. I hurredly slammed down 900 plus shipping, came out to roughly 950 if memory serves me.

So, for the record, in early January I put down an order for a Tanaka M700 AICS PCS through A&A airsoft; the article looks as follows:

Didnt seem too good to be true, it seemed accurate. A&A airsoft, whom I had read had good customer service, prompt shipping time, and decent prices advertised PCS, smack dab in the middle of the article. I probably read that article over three or four times because I simply couldnt believe it had PCS, but with it saying 1 remaining in stock, I wanted to get on it ASAP.

So, i received it promptly, opened the box, cool, big green gun, content with my new m700 AICS PCS, I propped it up in a corner not 2 feet from the original box, and decided to relieve myself from the nearing 2 year airsoft hiatus when it gets warmer.

Well now it's nearing that time of the year, and I actually need to sell it - I'm in quite the bind, and could really use that 900 back. I packed it up, original papers still in the box, styrofoam included, never fired, (magazine doesnt even KNOW what a BB looks like...) So I put it up for sale advertising Tanaka M700 AICS PCS, for sale for the amount I paid for the gun, 900. Several emails/PMs later from a fine local chap, and we met, traded and it was done. The next day I received a PM stating the bad news - It really wasnt a Tanaka M700 AICS PCS. It is the restricted one, (not even the for-america version and because im a stand up fellow i gladly honored our deal and gave the money back)

I sent an email to Mark Anderson of A&A Airsoft a few days ago, asking for either a refund or an exchange to be made for what is advertised. I received an email back telling me I should ask Tanaka why their advertisement states PCS when it really isnt (When it's on his website that the incorrectly labelled advertisement is posted...confused)

Usually this sort of mistake wouldnt bother me. I would swallow the misadvertisement, buy a bigger bolt and keep the rifle as is. BUT 2007 isnt 2002 for me, I dont have a copious airsoft wallet now, and thinking id get back into airsoft was a mistake; I think it's unfair for me to swallow both A&A airsoft's misprint mistake and my own. I simply want either what was advertised, OR a full return. (which isnt as bad as it sounds, ive never even cocked it until yesterday...just resell it to some other sucker.)

what am I to do?

How much does the non-pcs version go for? You could still sell it.

A&A IMO should just take it back and put it back up for sale. Stand behind the product you sell. It's easier and better buisness to do this then put up a fuss and smear your replutation.

This instance should be a no-brainer for someone in retail.

+1
its called standard customer service, you find that in all retail stores in Canada unless stated by the retailer "no refund/ exxhange"

i suspect you won't get your full amount back because you had the AICS for quite a while. Maybe you'll get most of the money back (or in-store credit) + some of their store's products. but anyhow, A&A should make up for their mis-advertisment.

Good luck, hope it goes well for you silent_lemon and keep us posted!

A&A should take it back. You did not get what you paid for ... seems pretty simple to me. Just because some time went by doesn't make them less responsible. I don't really care for Mark's response. You bought it from them, not Tanaka. That is passing the buck. They should refund your money and THEY can ASK TANAKA why their site says one thing and not another.

I've never ordered from A&A and after reading this I doubt I ever will.

One negative experiance is worth 20 positive ones. I guess no one told them.

+1 on that. I'm considering getting a M249 this summer, and was thinking about A&A, but reading stuff like this just screams "shop elsewhere."

That's plainly false advertising.

No one forced them to copy & paste Tanaka's text, and if they don't know what they're selling there's a serious problem on several levels (or does their supplier sell them PCS and non-PCS M700s for the same price?)

edited by myself, as i agree this shouldnt be a thread to air any dirty laundry. mark has been overall good to my club and i appreciate that.

edit* id like to clarify that he doesnt owe you a cash refund, but rather in store credit.

Not the first time Mark has made a mistake on product description.

There was M14 on sale at AA without trades in-tact, someone ordered it and found the trades were missing. Not sure if Mark offered a full refund, but he since changed the description to notify about missing trades.

I say, keep pushing your case, you'll probably lose shipping cost, and Mark should be reasonable about it.

Hmmm. You bought rifle, because it had a specialized feature, you did take it out of the box when you received it and didn't look at it for 3 months. Then sold it again after having PM's & emails with the buyer. The Buyer gets it and tells you the next day its not a PCS. Is it and invisible upgrade? I dunno these things. Dude, I sell Pants.
Mark doesn't have any obligations here. You are relatively unknown to him thousands of Km away and on your word he has to give you a thousand dollar refund.
And no retailers do not have an automatic refund return or exchange whenever you feel like it policy. Major cor-pirate retailers have specific policies on conditions and receipts on returns or exchanges. I don't think anyone would give you a $1000 back after 3 months. If you find some one let me know. I'd bet my left nut it wouldn't be an Army Navy store, and you'd be hard pressed to find a retailer that would.

i dont entirly agree with you jeroon, you being a business owner yourself, can attest to someones friend/ mother/ relative buying an item as a gift, then the person returning once recieved (sometimes a month or more from origional purchase date) wanting a refund. although a refund is rediculous to ask for, you would almost certianly offer in store credit to satisfy the customer and keep his business. whats to say he doesnt return a $45 item, and then turn around and buy a $30 item, than he also spends $145 on accessories for.

well what id like to address is really the fact that im a decent person, im all grown up now, i started collecting and playing airsoft when i was 15, have quite a few transactions under my belt and my fair share of disappointments on me and of other people. Been around lurking ASC since 16, now im 21, and have a sense of humility. If this happened to me, id take strides to help them out, so asking for a small bit of credit here is not unreasonable.

from what i understand, there were PCSs available first, they came with a manual that states how to adjust it in the manual, then the restricted ones came out leaving the pcs adjustment out(i have one of these and one of the manuals without the adjustment pictures) then the americanized ones came out, with a larger diameter nozzle for upwards of 500fps etc...that he now carries.

Hi,
That's how I buy them and that's the information Tanaka sends me. I would contact Tanaka and see what they have to say.

Regards,

mark

..............hmm

That's what adults in the business world call passing the buck.

In Jeroon's (armyissue) defense he's a great fellow but I disagree with him on this point although I understand his reasoning being that there are a ton of scammers out there in the world, and many find there way into our beloved sport.

I'm with Jeroon on this one. Sucks, but I'd think if you'd gotten back to Mark with this problem much sooner it wouldn't have been a big deal to rectify. 3 months later...well, different story. Likely the manufacturer wouldn't reimburse Mark either after that amount of time.

See what I'm saying here? What did the BOX say? Was it mis-labelled?

Yes, but we are talking about a $1000. If someone came in and bought a $1000 set of NVG's here and came back after 3 months, telling me that they are not the one they wanted. Its not a t-shirt, its a big part of your months bottom line and your asking me to swallow a big pill so you won't have too. If you can name the business owner of a small Biz chances are he's a busy guy. With a lot of product coming and going, there will be errors, and we accept a certain amount of responsibility for that. But theres a point that it is not fiscally responsible to comply with the customers requests. Its not that difficult to see why he would refuse.
I used to work for one guy who in 23 years never gave a refund. Alway argued. He either lost a customer or found an agreeable solution. Dumbass was proud of that. I changed the Policy to allow for refunds as they were expressed by Management. I would allow a refund to customers were it was considered benificial to the company to do so. So instead of losing a sale or a customer after looking at other options I would allow for a refund. It made a difference.
I also worked for a company that had a standing policy to offer a ton of no-charge extras and no questions refund. This policy was taken for granted and abused to a great expense of the company.
Its about being rational and reasonable. Find a solution that would be acceptable to A&A. You have a product and money, he has a store and a reputation. Return ship and re-order something else similtainiously with some extras, or sell the AEG on your own to recoupe your expense, but to Expect a refund for that amount of money, after that long, from a small business, is not realistic.

3 months or not, the product was not what was ordered. Granted I think a "normal" store what you are pointing out is very true. But....this is AIRSOFT. Word of mouth is worth more in airsoft IMO. A&A could accept it back and sell it again and nobody is worse for wear, OR even offering to accept it back but minus $50 for restocking due to the time between the original transaction and now.

But a response of " go talk to Tanaka", that is not a prefessional way of doing things. Just look at this thread....bad publicity in the airsoft community goes farther then a "normal" retail buisness due to how close the community is.

As I said, smart thing to do as a retailer here is to accept it back and move on. The longer this situation goes on the worse it ends up being.

Just to recap, I agree with what you posted, but it doesn't work so well in airsoft due to how "clicky" and close knit the community is.

At the medium-sized Mac store I used to work at, the main factor in refunding something like this is the time. Essentially, within a month we'd take it back and charge a 15% restock fee. In this case, with a misadvertised product, we'd probably take it back within a month at no restock fee, but after a month we'd charge the 15%. Something to consider...

I'm the guy who discovered that the AICS does not have the PCS. It is not "invisible" but it does require removing the bolt to be sure. Takes 2 seconds to confirm but neither of us knew how to check until I did a little research.
A friend of mine ordered an AICS recently from A&A and it too does not have the PCS but is an export version (says so on the box) that has a larger nozzle than the domestic(japan) version which supposedly only shoots around 200fps with duster. If he hadn't known about the relatively new FPS limit law in Japan, he too would've expected the PCS as there is only ONE description for 3 versions of the same gun at A&A.
This is an issue A&A should take up with his supplier not pass the buck onto the unsuspecting consumer. If something similar happened say with your car where the size of the engine was misrepresented, you'd be going to the retailer not the manufacturer!

It's not like that at all!! Granted time has passed but he was not sold what he intended to buy!! The issue isn't sour grapes 'cause the PCS is better but that he bought the Tanaka with the PCS but was sent a gun that is essentially useless without some upgrades!!!

About the comment of 'word of mouth means everything in airsoft'.

Whether or not he accepts it back... it likely won't hurt his business, being that he is one of only two that are currently importing.

Although, of course, if 007Airsoft does start importing in any quantity again, then Mark may lose some business anyway.

"talk to Tanaka " is the easiest way to unload your customer service dept if your busy.
"Go to the web site and send me a link for what you want". Its not the same as the McDonalds refernce. When ordering stuff like that there are details that are important to you. If the Manufacturer offers a sevice to get it exactly right do you need the retailer to hold your hand?
I can and will help you with what ever you need, My web site has pics of stuff on it, send me the link, with the size, the colour, the material. I'll ship what you asked for. Thank you, come again.
Dude, I sell pants, has so many phone converstations that start... "Uhm do you have army pants?"
Ask a MOD about PM's that start "Uh where can I get the AS guns". Well Mark deals with all those guys.
lol
And feel free to shop where ever you want for ASG's. You have sooooo many to chose from here in Canada. lol
I don't want to sound like an ass here, I do a lotta business with ASers on the boards and in my shop. But take care of your own business and don't try to gain leverage by trying to smear A&A on the boards. Thats kinda juvenile.

So, you've read everything you could find about the m700, opened the box (I assumed you looked it over a few times. I know I can't put down a new gun right away), and didn't look at it again for almost three months?

Now I can see that if it was a month, or possibly two at most, you might've had a good chance. But three months is a long time, and Mark has no idea what you've done with the gun. Not saying you have, but you have to see it from his eyes as a business owner. If he accepts it back, sells it to someone else and finds out something is wrong with it that wasn't blatently obvious at the time, he's on the hook for a lot of money.

Is it easy to mod to the m700 to have the PCS? (I know very little about the m700's) If so, mod it and sell it. sure you won't get exactly what you paid for it, but you do get a substantial portion of it. If not, sell it as the non-PCS version. It sucks, but you said you've read everything about it. I assumed you would've come across the same thing SBranson23 did when you were researching.

As for Mark, he should change the description as due diligance on his part. He should be keeping on top of these things if he's going to be selling them in his store.

well, yes, i didnt touch it for 3 months, it's sat in the same spot for 3 months. i think ive taken the mag out and put it in probably 5 times or so. Other than that, I dont have time right now to play airsoft, and there are bigger priorities. I could hop back into airsoft at any moment because i still maintain my gear and camos but the gun, i needed. And it's not seen any action of any sort ever.

I understand the concern though, 3 months is a long time. But id be willing to take it to a 3rd party if there's such qualms with my word.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...n/IMG_2029.jpg the box and the gun as of right now, the gun sat where the box is now for 3 months.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...n/IMG_2024.jpg the box and gun together

drocs sake - Im not trying to spread slanderous or untrue words about A&A, ill buy from them again, but rather looking for some support in this case, because the ad states, PCS, i was not sent PCS, even IF i used the gun, and even resold the gun, I would have grounds to complain that in the past, A&A advertised a different gun than that was sent. So regardless if anything is done, I hope he will check over his inventory and correctly advertise each one, to the letter.

Maybe not, but the law does require retailers to have a return policy. Both parties in a contract have 7 business days to cancel a contract, even after it's "finished". Look it up. 3 months however is pretty long, but I'd hope a decent retailer especially in the airsoft biz would do something more than pass the buck...

I gove thumbs up to A&A, just got a CQB and he did everything he could to make sure i got it in time. great guy.

I was looking into a AG36 and was told he price matched. when i showed him a competitor he said he wouldn't do it. Im still a big fan of him though. I have heard sticky stuff about the business though involving responsibility and money.

I think 3 months is a bit much. If you had noticed right away, im sure he would have returned it.

if you didnt have the arguement of whether or not it has been used, what difference does 7 days have over 30, 35, 60, or even 90 days?

it's only time. He's still in business. He can resell to someone who knows what theyre buying.

Ask Mark if he'd be willing to give a good discount on the parts one'd need to upgrade it to the AICS PCS state to either you or whoever buys that rifle? Probably best you can hopeful right now.

I think you should ideally get a full refund in the form of store credit. Considering the current state of airsoft availability in Canada, I doubt Mark will have trouble selling that rifle. However, I doubt that (full store credits) is going to happen. The 3 months really does hurt your case.

i only said the above comment because, really it hasnt had more than a few shoulderings and a few mag pulls, never fired, never chambered a bb. no gas inserted. it's virgin enough to be mint. That's why i argue the 90 days, wonder what the difference is between saying having received this 7 days ago, and bitching now, and 90 days ago, and bitching now.

Come to think of it, it's almost like i received it less than 7 days ago, because i never looked at it closely enough to doubt whether the inside underneath of the bolt had the PCS or not. I simply TRUSTED A&A. and that's where i believe the fault lies - case and point

I guess I'm just an old fart that still thinks that customers come first. Very dissappointed to hear about your dealing with A&A. I rather go without a new AEG than risk getting a bad one. Especially to have to hear from the retailer telling that it's not their problem that they sent you the wrong one.

He might be one of the few retailers that are selling guns right now, but it doesn't make a difference to me. Good for him if you think, well, if you don't buy from him, someone else will. I will not deal with retailers that don't give a rat's ass to customers. I'm also sorry to hear that Armyissue agrees with him. Too bad for all then....

Who cares if he's one of the few retailers bringing stuff in. When you buy from a retailer you are paying extra for their overhead. There are ASC members who do regular group buys and you'd save yourself some money by ordering from them anyway.

Most people just feel safer ordering from a retailer with a website. To each his own.

I personally have heard nothing but good about Mark. Consider that he's probably just extremely busy, being one of the only retailers left in business. Probably just tried to take the easy way out by saying 'ask tanaka'.

I'd say press the issue until you either get what you want or get told off. I still recommend A&A, but I suppose I'm in a different situation, being able to do business there face to face.

Regardless what Tanaka supplied for information. A&A should have examined the gun to make sure it's the correct model before shipping and that his order was complete. WGC are listing their Tanaka M700 AICS, with no PCS.

http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper...BK_srch_tanaka

Early November last year, WGC listed the Tanaka M700 AICS was equiped with the PCS. I emailed WGC in the beginning of December before I ordered mine to make sure. They replied they are no longer carrying the M700 AICS with the PCS as Tanaka has stopped producing the PCS and installing gas regulators in them due to the fps restrictions that have been imposed in Japan. I ordered mine in mid-December through Raygis LasVegas in one of his group orders from RedWolf. He contacted RedWolf before he ordered it to confirm they sold the M700 AICS with the PCS.

So if Tanaka sent info on their product, I'm sure they sent the updated info to him on regards that the Tanaka M700 AICS is not equiped with the PCS feature. However, there is a guy in the states, I beleive he resides in California, who had made a special replacement nozzle to eliminate the gas regulator. I think he was selling them for around $20US (can't remember).

Funny.

When I saw the Tanaka M700 up on sale on A&A that few months back, I e-mailed them requesting to double check if it had the PCS system as I knew about the new Japan Joule limits and the removal of the PCS. I never got a correct answer saying it had the PCS, so I just stopped there.

good points all around, and as some have said the main thing holding you back now is the time.
One option might be, in talks with Mark at A & A, to have the weapon examined by a third party. Someone completely neutral. That way Mark will know he is getting a gun he can sell with no headaches, (immediate and in the future) and you can receive in-store credit to an agreed upon value toward the purchase of another gun/parts/accessories/gear.
Everyone should be happy, I would hope.
Either way I wish you all the best. Its a close knit community, so for all concerned an amicable resolution should be found.

Thank you.

I think if it were just a case of wanting his money back after 3 months because he needed the money, I would say no. If he waited 3 months and then discovered the gun broken and wanted his money back I would also say no. You have to draw the line somewhere, and companies that give no questions asked refunds after that long don't stay in business.

But, this is a completely different matter. He paid for something he did not receive. True he was not intentionally ripped off, but regardless of who is to blame for the inaccurate description, it is not the customers fault. If Mark from A&A copied the description off the box and it was incorrect he should offer a refund and HE should be the one to contact the manufacturer.

and if you put the stereo system under the stairs for 3 months, hooked it up and noticed X not present...remembering you bought the stereo with X, would you still go back and make a fuss? (i sure have/ and would in such a case.)

information
 

hi all.

interesting comments now as for VATEK bitiching me out NOT he had an issue informed me of it and the problem was made right.

as for silent_lemon well if he had an issue he should have informed me sooner so I could have dealt with it 3 months is too long. I go on only the information the company sends me with the products I have too many products to go though all of them to check them all over. I try my best at this stuff for all of you guys.

Regards,

mark

That's great you try your best for them, now with the issue at hand, have no sympathy whatsoever? Are you afraid of the possible damage that's been incurred to the gun after the 3 months?

yup
 

Hi,

YES very concerned as I have done this before for a couple of people and the item has come back with mech boxes blown and bb's jammed in the barrels. so to that answer is yes.


Mark.

But Mark, we're not talking about a mechanical problem with the gun after 3 months. A mistake was made in the description of the gun that you were selling on your website and the buyer did not get what was described. Just telling him that it's not your problem is really poor business practice.

I made an order from Optactical for some gears. Same thing happen to me to one of the products I ordered. Right description but wrong peice. At first they told me to contact the manufacturer but I inform them that there was a mistake made on their site and they should try and correct that information. I had already used the product and told them that I wasn't really looking for a replacement since I had used it already and it was still ok for me.

Next email that was sent from them to me was that the correct one will be sent to me without charge and that I should just keep that wrong peice.

Needless to say, I have promoted that company to all my friends.

A simple gesture like that really goes a long way. I'm not saying that you should do that but at lease come to an agreement where the buyer can get some compensation to help him sell that gun. A partial store credit for anyone that buys it could have been offered. We would then have a thread that praise A&A for making it right instead of this.

I completely understand what you are saying as I used to work in retail for 10 years for a major electronics chain. Allowing exchanges or refunds on items that can not be resold as new is not wise and can severely effect a company's bottom line. Our chain probably had a million dollars worth of stuff sitting around that we could not sell, even heavily discounted.

The difference with this case is that the customer paid for something that he did not receive, AND it is still in new condition. I really don't see what the problem is here. It's exactly the same as someone buying a recordable dvd player and not wanting to record anything for a few months and then finding out that the unit doesn't record and is only a player. He should be given what he paid for or get a refund. Then you should go after the manufacturer or distributor yourself if somehow you lost money by their mistake.

Well, to be fair, the email I sent had a pretty unhappy tone to it. Maybe not as harsh as I made it out to be, but the message was clear that I was not pleased with the removed trades.

Either way, you did get back to me quickly and the return was arranged within the day, so the issue was handled in a professional manner, and I thank you for that.

Personally, I think the product being sold should match the description on the website, because it completely avoids any trouble after the purchase. Had I known that the OD M14s Mark had in stock had removed trades before I bought them, I would have bought a different gun or waited until he got a batch with intact trades. I haven't had a problem with any order I've received since, and I hope it stays that way. Both my M24 and my Hi-Capa 5.1 were in flawless shape when they arrived. I'm not trying to badmouth your business, and I've recommended you to friends based on the service I got on the return on the M14.

Silent_lemon, no offense, but did you not check yourself to see if it had PCS before you tried to resell it? That's also negligence on your part, imo.

If you only realised you didn't get what you ordered 3 months after receiving it, after trying to resell it, it's kind of your own fault for not verifying. Personally when I drop down a hefty sum of money on anything, I open it up and check it all out pretty much as soon as I get it. I can see how you would be disappointed you didn't really get the product you thought you were purchasing, but 90 days to make a complaint or w/e is usually longer than any retailer would allow with buying an extended warranty or something.

WHY would he check? Should he have checked the length of the inner barrel aswell just to make sure it's as long as it needs to be? Should he have checked the hop up bucking to make sure it hasn't been fired?

I didn't check my AK mechbox when I sold it to ensure it's a version 3.

The buyer paid for a product that he was told it was a "X" when it turns to be a "Y"...I don't see the buyer being at fault. And while there are MANY examples in this thread as to how other retail stores do this or that....apples to oranges. Airsoft is a tight knit community that has slightly different expectations. Just look at how this thread has influenced some of the posters positions on buying from A&A.....and those are only the ones that bothered to post.

Smartest thing to do is be aware of your product and be aware of your customer base. So far this thread has shown A&A isn't very aware of either.

Cortex, now you're just knit picking. From what I've read, silent_lemon knew there were availability issues with the PCS model of the gun he wanted. The fact that he didn't check if he got the PCS model when he received it and is only now trying to do something about it, AFTER trying to resell it, doesn't speak much for his credibility.

For example, when I purchased an expensive video card for my pc, when I finally did receive it, I made damn well sure it was the one I wanted. I didn't wait three months, try to sell it, then find out it wasn't the one I wanted because my buyer noticed for me.

Having dealt with A&A myself, I'm positive that if he hadn't waited 3 months to try and rectify the situation, he could have had this resolved in a manner satisfactory to both parties of the transaction.

Unless I read silent_lemon's posts incorrectly, it's his fault for only trying to take action this long after the transaction.

I'm not saying A&A didn't screw up, but silent_lemon screwed himself more so by waiting this long.

I have to agree with this.

I don't always check the guns that I buy new from a retailer that is listed on ASC. I still have guns that have never been used and they're hanging on my wall. I could very well be one of those guys that buys the M700 from A&A only to find several months later, when I do need to use it, that it is missing the part. I guess it'll be my fault for trusting someone is what you're saying.

I'm not blaming A&A or Silent lemon for something that looks like a honest mistake. A solution could have been made to both parties where everyone goes home happy.

Okay, I have to say something...

Say for example, I find a retailer advertising gen 3 nvgs for cheap. I know gen 3s are hard to get, and not normally cheap, but the retailer is a trusted retailer in the community. So, I buy them. There are no markings on the box to indicate that they are not gen 3. I dont get a chance to try them out for a few months. When I do try them, I find out they're not gen 3, but gen 1. Now, following your logic, it's my fault? I'm sorry, that's just stupid.

A&A says on their site that they are selling the PCS version. How is it silent's fault that the rifle he got does not have pcs? Just because he didnt find out sooner? If it were a sale through the classifieds, then I'd say yes, he should've checked when he got it. But this wasnt a buy&sell ad from a player, it was a sale by a trusted retailer. He had every right to expect that A&A sent him the right gun. He shouldn't have to check the moment he gets it!

The basics facts:
A&A advertised the gun as having PCS.
A&A never informed him otherwise.
The gun does not have PCS, and therefore is not the gun he paid for.

Now sometime may have passed, but regardless, A&A does have a responsibility to do something here. They, though unintentionally, misrepresented their product. Retailers have a responsibility to ensure that the product sent to the customer is the product that was ordered. In this case, it was not. I would suggest exchanging the gun for either one with PCS, or for another gun of equal value.

I never said A&A wasn't at fault. Pay attention, please.

At this point though, it's the buyer's responsibility only because he waited this long to try and do something about it.

I don't understand why anyone would buy something and then not try it out when they receive it. I can understand waiting a few days, maybe even a couple weeks due to time constraints, but my argument is that 3 months is too long.

The point here is that this could have just been a shipping error on A&A's part. Silent_lemon took his time and didn't report the error until now, so how could A&A have known?

The following is directly from the A&A website:

"We ship AirSoft products to Canadian Addresses only. If your not happy we will refund you your money less shipping as long as you have contacted us within 48 hrs of recieving the product and also the product must come back in the condition as it left the store. Once the item has been fired it is no longer returnable"

By purchasing something from the store, you've agreed to the terms for returning an item. It's that simple.

knit picking eh...ok.....lets just see how much good this thread does Mark.

Easy thing to do would have been to suck it up, but I'm sure all of this word of mouth is much more valuable....

I stated before a retailer needs to know the product and the customer base. By how this is playing out neither had happened. IMO Airsoft due to it's nature is different then selling T-shirts and underwear.

I guess I agree to disagree Maverick0....

Wow, this has to be the most....balanced? problem I've seen on these boards. Points are strong for both sides.

3 months, after a re-sale....that's just too damn long. I mean, given what he clearly states on his site in regards to the 48 HOURS. I know....yes he should be able to be confident in his purchase....but what if it was just a mistake on A&A's part. Everyone is human and he even says on his site he would have corrected the mistake, noquestions asked BEFORE 48 HOURS. Considering Mark is a human being and human beings make mistakes, I think it is in best intrest to check anything over regardless of who sold it to you the very moment you get it. And especially when you are going to sell it yourself.


Now in Lemon's defence, I too have had little problems. Only one incident where a mag did not show up and I never did recieve it and it was never fully resolved. However, in other dealings, I've gotten certain perks here or tere that more then compensated for it.

This situation is difficult either way. I'm gonna have to side with A&A though.

It isn't. A vendor can put a limit of 48 hours all they want, but as I stated before the law says otherwise. Here's a "for instance": I buy a gun, and 72 hours later wish to return it. Vendor says no, it's not his policy. The law trumps that policy, I'm afraid.
Yes 3 months is way outside 7 days, but as A&A's policy clearly states, "...also the product must come back in the condition as it left the store. Once the item has been fired it is no longer returnable". From what I understand has been stated in this thread, the weapon hasn't been fired, so that point is taken care of. The only point that would seem to be under contention now is the time difference. IMO the gun is just as much incorrect now as it was when it was sent out. I'm sure some arrangement can be made that would be satisfactory to both parties involved. Like Cortex said, it's a small community. I'd love to see a happy ending here. Lord knows we need more.

took my time reporting it? I made this thread MINUTES after discovering it had no PCS. You must be WAY TOO new to airsoft and have the urge to play with everything you have at every moment of the day, ive been playing airsoft for a third of my life, it's not super important to me, so when i got a gun, great, it's what i ordered i suspected, and ill play with it in the summer time. period.

Both parties are to blame here.

A: Mark should know what he is selling but you guys have to realize that its only one person. Stuff comes in and stuff goes out every day and there is bound to be a mix up. Now frankly Mark DOES have a return policy for the 48 hours if the gun has not been fired. How does Mark know that it has not been fired when it was sold to the other fella? You can't guarentee that 100%... Only thing he can do is trust in what the guy says... but that could screw him over. I think 3 months is way too long to get a full refund. If I were mark I would give 75% of the money back in the form of store credit.

B: silent_lemon did wait 3 months. If it had been a year would Mark still have to do anything for him? I say no and even at this point. It would be nice if Mark gave a 75% refund but thats up to him.

If Mark does nothing whats going to happen? Ooo bad press for Mark. Who cares. I am willing to bet that 90% of you will still buy from him. Hell they found out that NIKE uses children to make their items and yet most of you still go around wearing your shoes/shirts without a care in the world.

A&A is at fault for selling a product different than what was sold. If the problem was brought up within roughly a month for example. I think its up to A&A to take responsibility 100%

However waiting 3 months and expecting A&A to agree to a return is insane. Thats far too late to expect a return.

There are lessons and examples to be made from this encounter.

Sell what you have, not what you dont.

Check First thing that its what you wanted. I check all my products the minute i get them.

Its unfair to expect a retailer to accept a return 3 months after purchase without a contract or warranty.

hey,,

im mixed here,, ive bought a bunch of stuff from mark,, it all worked out for me,, i understand what alot of the 'business' oriented guys are saying from the point of veiw of the bottom line,, but i own a tanaka aics with the afor mentioned option and i only realized it after i read a post from ILLIUSION,, i think one option that hasnt been mentioned is that you can buy the right bolt with the pcs option and add it to the gun and sell it,, it may be roughly the same dollar wise as negotiating with A&A as buying the part and reselling the gun,, like i said before, i have had any problems with A&A,, but that may be a way to help you sell it,, im pretty sure ILLUSION said somewhere that you can order the correct bolt for it,, the reason the build was changed was because of regulations in japan.

hope i helped, maby i didnt, lykurgus.

well im going to sell it privately, as there seems to be no chance for negotiation here. HOWEVER, the principle of the matter is still important - an apology on the misinterpretation of the ad would be gladly accepted. Otherwise, i dont see any other movement to come to an agreement here...

Having been there when Mark receives incoming products. I can offer the following tidbit of information.

When Mark gets a shipment we are talking 8-10 5 foot boxes stuffed to the gills with AEG's. His initial steps are to verify the packing slips with the actual product boxes. As he checks them off he can actually name who they are where they will be shipped to. The ones that have been pre-sold then get packed up and sent either that day (time permitting), or the following day. Mark is always giddy when he does this cause he knows how much we airsofters look forward to getting our "toys".

Yeah, please don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I pointed out that both parties of the transaction made mistakes.

Mark's mistake was sending the wrong item, or rather advertising it as the wrong item.

Silent_lemon's mistake seems to have been waiting to get this resolved.

I can see your point, silent_lemon, about not checking the gun out until now since you wouldn't actually be using it til summer.

It just seems kind of odd though, to me anyways. I guess it's because when I buy something expensive, I do open it right away to make sure it's all OK. Be it airsoft or whatever. It's not like you couldn't use it all til summer either, so that's why I would say you're also responsible at this point.

You started this thread to get people's input, so there's mine. Take it or leave it.

so you've totally ruled out Tanaka as the source of this fault?
A&A checked the box, said PCS on it, He doesnt know what the heck a PCS is, he's never even used a gas pistol in the field. He's not gonna spend 20 minutes researching the subject and then check every gun to make sure, that's Tanaka's job. They make it, they do their quality control, A&A just brings it in to sell it.

+1

When you order/buy something you should generally inspect it to make sure it fits your needs/requirements as soon as it gets into your hand. If anyone could just bring something back at any moment in time, retailers would be out of business from people just using it till it breaks and going back and saying "Its not what I got told it'd be!" And gets their money back?

If A&A labled it as to what they were informed it was, the fault goes back to the manufacture. If they miss labeled it, then yes there is some fault on A&A's bit here, and solves the problem by fixing the advertisement. However, on cost I personally think this would have stayed the same, unless it was miss labeled and priced by the manufacture, as the mark-up on the product would be from the price it was when A&A got it into stock.

A lot of this situation rests on Lemon's court, 3 months is far too long to expect the retailer to be able to do much for him. If they were good and really wanted to help him, I'd suggest what someone else has already here, help him by sourcing out the bolt that would have the PCS device in it and getting Lemon a "decent" deal on that bolt. But really, there's little excuse to say that he could not have gotten it tested with in a couple weeks to a month MAX of receiving the item. When I work on my guns, I'll dry fire it once or twice to make sure the mechanism is firing, then I head out to the local gaming field to test it and make sure BB's are going where they should.

Bottom line IMO: 3 months is WAY too long to turn around and say "You boned me man!" And then expect the retailer to bend over backwards for you.

Having read the whole thread to date, there is one quote which convinces me of fault, or rather, of who should be tasked with dealing with this mess.

If money really IS the issue, (Which, according to silent_lemon, it is.) then why didn't he even test the gun?
One grand is alot of money for a supposedly limited airsoft fund. I can understand that rich guy across the street not touching his new rifle because he owns 10 others, but the fact that apparantly NOTHING was done between purchase and now tells me silent_lemon is looking for special treatment.

I'm sorry, Lemon, but if it were up to me you'd have to settle for selling the gun for the non PCS price. A&A messed up but you didn't give Mark the chance to fix it.




-Cheese

I agree with the statement that after 3 months of you doing nothing that its not Marks fault.

From read the above lines from your original post (yes I cut out some crap in between but it doesn't change what you type here). This tells me that you have researched this gun over and over, you did unpack and inspect the gun upon receipt of it but did not fire it. I don't know about the rest of you but when I take a virgin gun out of the box for the first time like mentioned about I play with it for a few moments till my hard on settles down. And considering how much research you've put into the gun you think you would notice what the other buyer notice instantly upon unpacking it just like you. Not only did you unpack it, but you left it unpacked for 3 months where you could see it everytime you went to bed, until you repacked it for sale (at which time most people would typically give it a once over to make sure nothing was missing).

I'm sorry but I agree with Mark on this one, in all that time, with all your reading and knowledge on the gun...... well damn chalk it up to experience check what you buy right away...... like I mean you buy a meatball sub from Subway, go home and throw it in the fridge and 3 days later go to eat it and finds out that its a Pizza sub with olives (OLIVES I SAY!!). They are not going to replace it.