Which bolt action sniper rifle should I purchase?
 

Looking for some opinions here, I've decided to buy a bolt action spring rifle but can't decide which.

I am looking at a decision between the following two:

AGM/JG MP001 A.K.A. Swiss Arms SA1 Sniper - Black

or

UTG Bolt Action Sniper Rifle V.2 Deluxe- Black

Because the SA1 is a clone of the Mauri VSR 10 I was thinking it should have better upgradability.

Anyway, I need some advice here...

Thanks!

You should read the reviews, get age-verified, contact local players and go see guns in person.

Study what airsoft sniping is all about before you invest.

Then you should make up your own mind and be sure to not buy crap. Nobody can decide for you.

So start following the process, it's all spelled out in the FAQ and Newbie Guide.

I have the UTG one and its not a crappy spring like the Super9. I'm very satisfied with it.

My advice is that you save your money and buy a better gun. You're basically comparing cheap piece of crap "A" to cheap piece of crap "B". In the end, their still both crap, any way you slice it. It's like comparing a Lada to a Kia - they're both shit, regardless of price.

You will have to invest a couple of hundred dollars to make it skirmish-worthy and give you an advantage, or else you're going to get hammered by folks with only mildly-upgraded AEG's who's rate of fire is 20 rounds to your 1.

Buy a gun that you can use with minimal upgrades out of the box - APS2, VSR10, or KJW M700. You can find them in the buy + sell on this forum for around $350-500 used, sometimes mildly upgraded. You'll spend that amount on upgrading either of those other guns.

Thanks Mesthead!

The reviews I've read on that rifle were great, as were the reviews for the SA-1 so I wasnt sure what to go with, in the end I decided to go with the SA-1.

Thanks for your input greylocks and skruface, I will go about becoming age verified when I get time.

Just a quick note... I am not a "newbie" I have been playing airsoft for nearly 7 years and own a highly upgraded TM AUG which I am less then enthusiastic about using it in rain or snow, what im looking for here is something that I can mess around and have fun with without needing to worry about breaking, I guess I should have been more clear in my first post ever lol, my mistake.

I am curious as to why skruface thinks these guns are such garbage, do you actually have experience with these models or companies or are you just looking at the price-tag and assuming they are junk? It is my experience that expensive airsoft guns wear their cost on the externals not the internals... im a bit confused as to why you would assume that a gun that can outshoot the TM VSR 10 out of the box is somehow substandard.

China can make them cheaper... it doesnt have anything to do with quality its about inexpensive labour and better infrastructure for industrial manufacturing.

Unless you know something I don't?

Anywho, thanks for the responses!

There are plenty of reasons the quality isn't going to be the same.

For starters, the cost is definitely not all on the externals. The internals in most of the "chinasoft" guns aren't up to the standard set by companies like Tokyo Marui, especially in terms of consistency.

As for "outshooting" the Marui VSR-10, it's a pretty subjective statement. Power isn't everything. Raw velocity isn't fun if your BB's fly haywire, or if you only get half the life-span out of the gun. Generally speaking...

That cliche "you get what you pay for" exists for a reason.

Granted, we pay more in Canada for airsoft than it's really worth, but it's all relative, and the relatively cheap ones are (as a rule) relatively not as good.

You could get the best copy ever. It could be twice as good as the Marui.

But you probably stand a greater chance of getting a lemon with the "copycat" companies than you do with the more expensive companies.

Put it this way. A Tokyo Marui VSR-10 rarely has a problem out of the box that isn't caused by the person who bought it.

Where you'll save money buying a copy, it's way more likely than a Marui that a sear will fracture, or some flaw in the trigger mechanism causes it to wobble and then it breaks because the casting was garbage. Or what have you. When you copy something, you aren't going to be able to make it the same as the original, without duplicating everything from the original plans.

Chances are, the china-soft companies don't run the same shop as Marui at a fraction of the price. That's not usually how it works.

The logic is that you can take the risk, and spend less money but probably wind up paying the same value in TIME that you'd save by just buying the good ones. Personally, I hate waiting to get something fixed that I could have avoided in the first place.

Some people don't mind though.

Thanks for your reply MysteryFish,

I understand the chances of factory defects may be slightly increased and that the machine shops and quality assurance isn't the same when purchasing from some budget airsoft companies.

I also understand that some chinese airsoft companies have been trying very hard to improve their products and have read nothing but excellent reviews on the two above mentioned models.

The fact of the matter is that Airsoft in general is overpriced, not just japanese manufactures and Canadian retailers.

Real guns don't cost as much as airsoft guns in some cases which makes no sense to me, but whatever...

In any case, I understand the concern and thank you for the warning. but I also understand that it is crazy to think that someone couldn't make a decent airsoft gun that doesn't cost more then 200 dollars and am more then willing to take the risk when the alternative is a replica that costs 200% more then the real firearm.

I think the reason that most people always say "you get what you pay for" and other over used expressions is because they got stuck spending $800 on a gun which can now be had for $300.

It has been widely talked about in many reviews and discussed all over Arnies, that the new Chinese guns coming out are in some cases better than the originals that there copying. It actually makes sense if you think about it;

Tokyo Marui makes gun
Small flaws/in-efficiencies are found over long term use
Chinese company copies gun and improves on original design

And like you stated before with Chinas cheap labour and a vast infrastructure well suited to produce airsoft guns, these "knock-offs" are lower priced and in some cases better quality.

In the end I think that the Chinese guns are a way better value for the money.

And just to claify I have both Chinese and Japanese guns in my arsenal.

Fair enough. I just figured it would be worth adding a perspective. I usually get more out of these threads than I put in.

I should add that my experience with both known companies and cheaper knock-offs has led me to believe what I wrote is true, but I have no experience with these newer releases.

I was tempted to buy the VSR-10 clone just to see how it fared, but I haven't bothered to try it yet, because I get super pissed when I have something I can't fix right away, and I have no way of knowing if it's a stand-up item without spending the money and time.

So, I'm biased by impatience and comfortable in staying with what I know, but I recognize both sides of the argument for sure.

While we're at it, does anybody know if that VSR clone is ACTUALLY a VSR clone? (In terms of TM parts compatibility)

I hear the parts are compatible. If the Canadian retailers didn't charge me my first born form some thing that can be gotten so cheaply in the states I would compare. I know the insides and outsides along with upgrades for a vsr like no one.

I'll suggest you dig around on here:

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums....php?board=8.0

and maybe even sign up and ask some questions. Airsoft Retreat is a very large forum in the US, and there are literally hundreds of airsoft snipers there, both noobs and vets, and they have a lot more to say about those brands you posted than anyone on here has experience with.

From what I understand it is an exact TM VSR clone and will accept the parts and upgrades without modification.

I have ordered one from www.buyairsoft.ca for 216 dollars with tax and shipping, once I have time to try it out I can let you know for sure.

It would have been a better idea for you to wait and go see a game or two first. Then you could have tried the guns AND get age-verified before spending any major money.

Right now, you will get a gun. But... what will you compare it to if you have never shot anything else? Do you have a good setup to test the velocity or will you guess?
How can you let us know anything when you cant compare?

I've owned plenty enough chinasoft to know not to waste my money if you're looking for on-field gaming performance. I've gamed with the aforementioned Super Duper 9 v.2 and owned an HFC USR-11, which is an exact Taiwanese clone of the TM VSR10. Both required at least $250 to make them effectively skirmishable (new barrel, hopup assembly, spring, sears) although for the price they make a nice display piece or gun to tear down and mess around with. For a gaming gun? I'd have been better off buying quality the first time.

I finally ponied up and bought a Tanaka M700 AICS, and I'll never look back at cheap-ass garbage. I'll put my bone stock AICS against your bone stock chinese clone any day of the week. It'd be like you bringing a LADA to a NASCAR race.

I am a little confused about why this age verification is so important, it's not like im trying to buy a gun from anyone so whats the big deal?

I work alot and don't have time to show my ID to some guy I've never met before so a bunch of people on an airsoft forum know what age I am, it doesn't realy seem like a priority.

As for going to games and trying guns, I've done that many times in my seven years of playing airsoft and have a very good idea of what to expect from certain companies like KG, who I believe will be entering into direct competition with Tokyo Mauri for the mid/high end airsoft market very soon. ( they have already honestly. )

I would suggest trying to get your hands on their new clone of the G-36 and try it out... you'de never know it was only a few hundred dollars unless someone told you.

Good luck convincing people here that the China guns are worth anything. It's been tried, and failed miserably.

Purchase all of them

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm simply saying that china airsoft companies are changing, they have a better infrastructure for manufacturing airsoft weapons and have begun making guns with the sole intention of making an affordable product of equal ( or superior ) quality then well known Japanese makes.

If you are trying to say that China as a country isn't capable of producing a quality airsoft product then you are sorely mistaken.

I'm not saying anything. From what I've read I agree with you, but I haven't yet used a china gun. I'm just saying no amount of convincing is going to change the attitude of most of the people on this forum.

I had a china gun it was an M4A1 Electric gun and all i can say is it shot worse than a srosman battery powered uzi i could throw a bb harder

They are capable, but are the currently quality up to Japanese/Taiwan/HK manufacturing, absolutely not. As much as Chinasoft is gaining some quality, please don't spin the story as they are the same quality level as the first tier manufacturers. (And yes, I've owned a couple of TM cloned chinasoft before.)

You have to remember, China only has the labour advantage over other countries. So for capital intensive products, ie ones that require heavy investment in manufacturing machineries won't see the benefits of having cheap labour as much. You also have to compare the quality of material they use to see where they are saving money. You also have to think about how many labour hours are put into each airsoft, and I don't suspect it to be that many man-hours since assembling all the parts shouldn't take more than 3hrs. When all the above are considered, only then can you really say "Chinese airsoft are cheaper because of this".

If you hold material quality and built quality constant, I don't suspect the airsoft to be half the price of what a TM, CA or G&P would cost just because of cheap labour.

Kind of a long post, but all I'm saying is that the cheap labour doesn't reflect the price of airsoft, it's other parts they are cheaping out. Strength of springs, bushings, shimming, gearbox, gears, piston, piston head, cylinder, and motor. All these parts will likely to have some compromise to attribute to the cheaper price tag.

I agree with you and wouldn't try to be able to ( or want to ) defend many second teir airsoft companies or their products, I simply see what I see and after being able to test my friends JG G36C clone I can tell you that there is realy nothing wrong with the quality of that weapon. I held alot of presumptions about it but after being able to play with it I am just amazed, it feels solid and fires as dependably and accuratly as my upgraded TM AUG-SRT.

I won't be seeing the spring version till next week but I expect to be pleasantly suprised again.

The thing people worry about isn't out of the box, of course it'll shoot fine since it's a direct copy of a proven design that's been around for years, but rather 5000 rounds later, what would happen to cheaper internals. Just because it performs out of the box doesn't make it durable, nor does it make it the same quality since durability is part of quality. ;)

AFAIK, the JG G36C is made out of ABS, yes that might be up to par with the TM G36C, but CA has raised the ante on the G36 with their risen body that has been agreed to be generally more solid than any other G36 out there.

So really, while the Chinasoft companies are playing catchup to the original quality, tier-1 manufacturers are under constant improvements to justify the higher price tag.

BTW, I forgot to mention this on the last post, but you said you've been playing for 7yrs, and your lack of time to do age certification. Is it really that time consuming to spend the extra 5 minutes at the game to talk to an age verifier?

I've been playing for 7 years but only started using these forums over the past week, airsoft and computers are two different catagories and due to some changes at work I had to learn to use forums properly which now allows me to know what I'm doing here...

And I realy haven't had any need for airsoft forums as I still use the first and only airsoft gun I've ever owned, a TM... so theres your quality in action I suppose.

I just wanted some advice before buying an inexpensive spring rifle so I decided to join the community.

How did you find games before you used the forums? =P

Here's the thing, as much as Chinasoft has been improving on the last 2-3yrs, the quantity of those imported in are still smaller than the tier-1 brands. So unlike asking for help for your TM Aug, you won't be able to get much feedback since most users have not dealt with most Chinasoft models. Whatever opinion you get from the CDN user base will largely come from reviews they have read on the interweb or feedbacks from other forums.

Just because a gun is a clone of TM, it doesn't mean it'll take the abuse of a TM. And the money you save from getting a Chinasoft isn't worth it in the long run just to maintain it's stock shape.

Let's keep it simple. Pretty much all of us are advising you that it's a bad idea.

You seem to think it's a good idea no matter what we say.

So... buy it, find out for yourself. Dont come asking us how to make it work later.

If you want to understand the rules of these forums, including the age-verification bit, read the Newbie guide. You may be experienced, but you are still a newbie here and there's stuff you should read.

I totally understand where you guys are coming from and agree with your views, I probably wouldn't invest in any of the cheap AEG's but when it comes to a cheap lil spring rifle I don't mind spending a bit of money and taking a chance when there are so few things that could go wrong ( 6 moving parts or something? ) and so many people with great experiences buying the same model I want, I'm not trying to seem like im ignoring what your saying... quite the opposite it has given me alot to think about, but what I was in the market for was a cheap airsoft gun of decent quality and I think I got that one covered now.

This might be hard to understand with so many quality products available but I just want something to lug through the mud and I wouldn't wish the fate of this rifle on anything worth a damn. lol.

I have been reading alot of the posts on these forums and so far have found it all very informative, I am trying my best not to ask a question that hasnt been asked already... which is tough cause you guys have covered alot of ground here! :)


The plain fact of the matter is, when you buy a CA or a TM you have something to be proud of. When you buy china soft, as a previous poster said you get what you pay for... and in this case it isn't something to write home about. But it should get the job done, and if something does go wrong, it is a exact copy so all parts and fixes should be the same, which is pretty much the one factor that made me decide to try it out and see what I think in the long run, something that is hard to do testing out other peoples arms at a local game or similar situation.

Anyway I can tell I'll get alot more out of these forums then I'm gonna be able to put in for a while, but I'm working on it! And I'll try to contact one of the age verifying agents for next weekend and hopefully be able to meet them on my day off, if not for the purpose of being able to purchase airsoft through this website then just to show respect to the standards and practices of the community.

Thanks to everyone who submitted their opinions to my first ever post, it was educational!:D

ArcticFox1984