Dragonskin
 

Is anyone wearing Dragonskin yet?

You mean the actual armour?

What is dragon skin? Is this a joke or should I click search?

http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin.php

Crazy body armor without the need of plates...

Video:
YouTube - more dragon skin

that dragon skin is awsome. saw it on discovery channel

That episode of Future Weapons that showed the Dragon Skin armour was on twice today, watched it both times.

that stuff is awesome, it took a genade! i wish they showed it getting shot by armor piercing rounds

They did on the discovery channel when the host of the show shot it numerous times with 5.56 and 7.63x39mm steel core ap ammo.

is steel core ammo armor piercing?

now go look into how some of these things have failed in taking what it was suppose to claim it could.
there's reasons why the US army doesn't allow it's troops to wear it, and why the PMC community tends to stay away from it.
Greg

it looks like it weighs a ton

apparently it's about the same weight as wearing regular plates.
I've heard it was lighter, but I can not confirm that right now.
Greg

I read that at $5,000US per vest was the reason few are using it, not because of flaws in it. Benefits over plates is it's more flexible for the user, unlike the stiffness with plates. Add in that a plate can only take so many rounds on it bfore it starts to weaken, dragonskin seems to keep going far beyond what plates can do.

Ditto to what CDN_stalker just noted. Its the price of the vest that drove the military away from purchasing it for use.

Same as choosing multicam as the new camo, price. Would have been more than ideal for aviators at a minimum. Instead the army went for "baby blue tuxedo camo" instead.

Cheap enough for parents to send to their kids serving in Iraq, but ex*****ve enough that the goverment wont get them to the troops by 2010.

then why would the DOD come down with a ruling that no one is allowed to wear it then?
that can't be just because of a price tag.
look into it, these plates have failed, and in more then one batch made apparently.
Greg

I suspect they don't want to come out of the contract. That's the 'Lowest Bidder System' for you.

I wonder how the trauma is with the Dragonskin.

No the dragon skin test models have not failed the tests, its all pollitics. The NIJ (nation institute for justice) has just passed the level 3+ dragonskin and has proven previous claims of inferriority wrong. They (us military H.P. white labs) used inferrior testing methods and botched the tests. Also the manufacturer of the standard interceptor is a major Bush/Republican campaign contributor, this is why the DOD will not let anybody wear it.

Trauma with the skin is suppost to be quite managable as the force is spread over a large area.

As for the steel core armor piercing question. Steel core has better armor defeating proporties than non cored ammo, but is still far off tungsten tipped or sabots. The steel core helps the bullet from deforming and loosing all its energy at the surface.

All armour will fail, that's a mathematical certainty. The reason U.S. troops are forbidden from wearing it is:

1) The U.S. military has not yet tested it to be battle-ready (official version)

2) That they simply can't afford to outfit all their troops and will not allow troops to supply their own. Then it comes down to some guys are better protected than others because they have money. This leads to discrimination and favoritism that can't be allowed in a military that requires teamwork and morale.

a mathematical certainty yes, but to have more then one set of plates fail to even pass what it claims it will (ie bullet going through first round into the plates) is not what I call a mathematical certainty.
Greg

It's the way of the military. I've been in lots of different units during my career. Some units have no problem with members using non-issued kit, so long as it's not a bright pink Hello Kitty rucksack. Some units are incredibly anal about non-issued kit. It depends where you're at. There's lots of good reasons in this thread as to why the DOD won't allow it. If I'm ever sent overseas, I'd pick up Dragonskin in a heartbeat. I rather enjoy the whole being alive thing.

A lot of it comes down to this also. You are not covered with life insurance and all that jazz if your hit because it is not issued kit.

There's a whole thread on it at lightfighter. I wouldn't wear it.

Ive read the same thing...

And in fact some of the higher ups in the military are now going to be receiving this armour... if i find the article again ill post it

ibby; it's the canadian army. it's a little different down where the yanks and rebs are ;)
I've been in nothing but anal units, but I've managed to sneak by a thing or two. I wonder how they would feel if I pulled out an entire new chest right :D
Greg

I thought that test was because they were using ammunition against which the plate was not rated.



Dragon Skin will not protect you from VB/IED shrapnel, explosive concussion, or accelerant burn. It will also not protect you against headshots and femoral trauma, which I believe are the two leading causes of death from gunshot-related injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan presently.

:confused: I dont know about that one...
Lol

No, the leading causes of death in Iraq and Afghanistan concussive blunt force trauma from IED's i.e. legs and arms blown off or internal organ rupture and failure. You right about the 2nd one being femoral/organ (mainly liver and kidneys, where SAPI plates don’t cover) trauma.

The greatest benefit of Dragonskin is its ability to retain structure after multiple projectile impacts. There are very few multi hit stand alone level 3 plates and ever fewer level 4 plates out there. Many articles discussing Dragonskin also mention its robustness and ability to withstand impact, which is something SAPI plates are not very good at. Many soldiers complain of SAPI plates shattering if dropped or impacted.

If worn plate style i.e. 10x12 inserts with kidney and groin inserts as well, over a frag vest, then the previously mentioned problem of VB/IED shrapnel is minimilized.

I highly suggest people read both what Pinicle armor and the NIJ have to say about Dragonskin befor writing hearsay and assumptions. There are also several very good atricles from sources non-involved like Navyseals.com and I belive the washinton post.

I was saying that gunshot trauma to the head and femoral (waist/upper legs) are the leading causes of death within the gunshot trauma category. That is to say, very few that are shot in armoured parts of the body, or have rounds impact armour, die from that particular injury alone. The point was made to imply that existing armour systems (III soft + IV plate) are sufficient protection INSOFAR as the armoured parts of the body, gaps notwithstanding.

The leading leading cause of death is, as you said, catastrophic amputation and/or concussive blast from IEDs.

I have not seen any tests with VB/IED shrapnel at realistic velocities - the previous one out of that air cannon was less than half the usual force of a real IED explosion. Whether Dragon Skin will be resistant to such penetration remains to be seen, and the 'scales' look eerily like shrapnel pieces themselves.

I will agree that from what I read, DS seems to offer a lot of improvements over the current armour package. In the perfect world, all U.S. soldiers would be running these. But logistical and political realities as they are, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Troopers who are KIA while wearing dragon skin are now being denied their GI life insurance pay outs... there has to be another reason.

missed this; ibby; here in canuckistan, they will not let you go if you wear non issued plates and kevlar. at least that's what the policy is. I've never heard of anyone doing the opposite though.
edit as well, the problem was that the company clamied it could take it, when it clearly could not. the test was then ran with stuff it said it could take, and failed. the company then attempted to back peddle by saying they never said that when they found out they had a bad batch of ceramics and issued the recall is what they've said. my memory is a little fuzzy but that's what I recall.
Greg

I'm aware of that. However, I'm also aware of what my life is worth to me. I'm of the opinion that my paycheck is available to spend on whatever I want, including kit that will serve me better than standard issued stuff. I have a Cadpat chest rig I bought which I wear on BDF ex's. I don't wear it on school ex's due to the fact we have to be proper around the students. I still haven't gotten one of the new tac vests, which I doubt I'd wear anyways, as they do suck quite a bit.

me, Id stick with Kevlar with a Lexan plate any day.

Not Dragonskin Buuuut....
 

I was watching "How it's made" on the tube the other night and saw them announcing a new technology being studied for a new body armour fabric made from genetically altered sheeps milk to form a spider silk protien type wool. From what I can gather it's essentially a sheep injected with DNA from a spiders genetic silk makeup into the area the build the genetic code for protein production in milk, production on the sheep is still small and quantity is a real issue with using spider silk for anything. Now I don't know how relevant this is and I couldn't find any real info on armour being tested or built, but on "How it's made" they said this fabric has 10X more stopping power than kevlar for the same density. Look into it, or as you NOOB bullies say GOOGLE it..... I found some very interesting reads when I looked deep, take care.

I believe the US and the Hebrew University in Israel are working on the spider silk armour you're talking about. There's also some research going on about using nanotechnology to create super strong materials for body armour.

The big question to me is...
 

Would you ever feel your hits?

So if you didn't feel them how can you call them?

I never play indoor but would this be good for that?

Random thoughts.

I am not picking the stuff apart it looks great but i just wonder that.

Spider silk armour? What's next, +5 Elven chainmail?

No, liquid armour with integral cloaking device. It's already in prototype phase.

If they can't see you, they can't hit you, but even if they did, it wouldn't even hurt you.

k u dont need dragon skin for airsoft lol, even regular plates is pushing it, if u cant take a hit from a pellet, maybe u shouldnt be playing....

I don't think you should be allowed to play at all
pellet guns != airsoft guns

for all you who don't know != is does not equal, and I have read several articles about a nano fiber being developed that is something like 20 or 30 times stronger than spider silk, and extremely light too. I read this article while up in university. Seems that they trying to create a new type of carbon string or something like that.

armor gets better and better every day. pretty soon t shirts will be the only armor we need.

there are only two sinple facts about this whole situation in real use:

SAPI ceramic plates are rated for 1 impact. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do by fracturing to absorb the impact.

Dragon skin may be level III rated, but plates are IV. Traditional kevlar vests are level III and are much cheaper and just as effective against multiple impacts. Why pay more for the same level of protection?





Body Armor in Airsoft:
I am one of those crazies that puts on (I weighed it yesterday for fun) 35 lbs of gear (including my Star FNC). I put on a replica kevlar helmet, but several on my team use real. I use a CIRAS with fake plates in it as well. I used to use the ubiquitous german flak vest before that. Is it excessive for airsoft? Yes - but then again so is everything besides a pair of pants and a tshirt and a springer.

Its about what you want from the game. Some people love to be all armoed up and play that way. Others dont even use camo and love it that way.
I play as kitted up as I can (dont worry too much about authentic though) because I want to. Can I feel a bb hitting me from 5000 feet away? Prob not. But the nice thing about a CIRAS or other body armor is that you can HEAR the bb hit you with a LOUD THWACK!

So - dont knock it until you have tried it. I personally dont like having my body covered in welts. I currently have 2 broken fingernails from bb's, I would rather not have them on my ears, or back etc.

I wear a CIRAS as well, love the thing, can re-arange the pouches as needed, currently I've got it set up so I can carry 21 low-caps, radio, and a couple of smoke grenades, and it weights a ton, makes for a good cardio work out.

Wasn't that 35 mags Dan? And yeah i use a CIRAS too. Great setup, modularity is simply amazing.

I have 38 mags, but my vest only carries 21, so I leave the other 17 fully loaded in my backpack and switch them out with empties when needed.

An army of one. LOL

Preach on brother.

I personally enjoy putting on as much kit as I reasonabally can when I play the game. I don't know what it is about the gear but the more authentic it is/feels/looks, the more I enjoy my time at the field playing in it.

The same goes with payload. There's really nothing about using high caps that I enjoy in a game. Sure, it's more practical in a game, but for me airsoft is more of a role playing outlet than it is long distance tag. So if I run out of bb's from a 30 round magazine and have to reload, then it makes it all the more fun for me :)

I also saw it on discovery they put it on a frg granade with some weight on it and it held up very well
not that id be jumping on any granades but its a good feeling of security