Hero's Army Surplus issues.
 

During the summer( 08/09/06), I brang my 2 paintball guns (worth over $900) into Hero's army surplus in the Oshawa area for a promised sale. When I arrived, he took a look at the guns, seemed pleased, and put them behind his table, reassuring me that he'd buy them. Moments later, he said he was no longer going to buy them, but "trade" me "anything" I'm looking for under $300 (which was $600 less than the fully tuned guns). I looked at several things, all of which he said I couldn't get a trade for, regardless of the low price tag. I quickly realised this was a bad move, and as I was attempting to get my guns back, and out of this bad deal, he offered me a trade for a Steyr aug, which was priced at $1000, and included 5 hicap mags, a tasco (maybe something less expensive) 4x scope, and sling. However, he neglected to include the state of the mechbox, and other internal parts ,when I inquired.
I later found out (from an ASC user)that the gun had blown shims, stripped gears, and a hell of alot more.
I sent him (Jeff) a message regarding the claims. Asking if they were true, and if they were I'd like a refund, or a (fair) trade. No replies. I sent another email just awhile ago requesting the same thing.


Anyone know what I should do? I think this is b.s, and so does the person I was there with. I knew I shouldn't have delt with him. Especially since he said he'd pay for the guns. Not trade some garbage gun.

Thanks for your help in advance!
Any help will be GREATLY appreciated... :(

It's been resolved. Too bad they still want to play games with me.

@ Hero's Army Surplus : Hey, next time one of your employees posts something negative about me, make sure it's true. Obviously he was talking out of his ass, because when confronted (w/truth, coupled with evidence), he just ran (with tail tucked inbetween 'is legs, I might add).

Can you go back and take your guns back?
Sell them by yourself and get what you want in the end?

No, because chances are he has sold the guns already. I just want either my money back, or that aug. It's destroyed, but atleast if I get it I could part it out, and make some of the money I lost-back.

thanks for trying though!

Go and ask for your guns back, or get the police involved.

Call and have a chat with the Durham Regional Police. They already have a hate-on for him.

Would the police care?
And if I have a down payment (technically) would I be the one to get burned? I mean he DID leave out important information...

You got scammed. You have the big end of the stick.
It's now your turn to shove it up his ass!

Well instead of asking here on ASC, why don't you make an effort to ask the police themselves if they care. If he intentionally mislead you, and you think you can prove it, you will get an audience.

I'll see. If he doesn't reply within a week, I will get them involved. So far I have two witnesses.

What exactly are you waiting a week for?! A sudden attack of guilt on his part?! Dude, call 905-579-1520 and get it over with...

No, I'm giving him enough time to see my email (the second one), and reply. If he does not in the alloted time, I guess I'll leave it to the police.

Thanks for the number Atreyu.

Do some research here on the boards and judge for yourself how many times that waiting for a reply has worked in regards to a bad transaction, whether online or in person. In the mean time, while you wait, if he hasn't sold your kit, he may in the time you wait. Therefore you lose more chances of getting your kit back as opposed to the money. I wouldn't wait, but it's your choice though...

Wow ya I agree in a way with ATREYU, I don't know how you could wait a week. I'd be worried about the police not being as concerned because you didn't contact them right away. I know if I got ripped off 900 bucks I'd want to do more than just phone the police. I guess the positive for waiting would be that you could say that you have tried contacting him and getting your stuff but a no go with him...

I agree

Go down and talk with Jeff in person, forget the emails, or phone him he's always there.

I live in Toronto (midtown). I takes me almost 2.5 hours to get there.. It's kinda hard when you work, and go to school. I'll try calling him up tomorrow or something.

Extending people "time" to get things together, or respond, or pay is equal to you extending someone credit. As soon as you do that, your screwed, as far as being able to use legal means to collect. Don't even give this guy a chance to respond to your e-mail (not a legal form of contact anyway). Hit him with police action immediately, as long as it takes you to dial the phone number.

And remember "Caveat Emptor". It means buyer beware.

I forgot to mention, I was there 2 weeks ago no Aug in sight. Actually no airsoft guns in his shop at all. I think he dosen't want to be involved in selling airsoft due to it's grayness.
Jeff is kind of a wing nut, but I'm sure he will compensate you. He's a shister to deal with because he wants the deal in his favor, but I dont think he's a thief.

I'll call him tomorrow. He better smarten up.

Apparently he's been involved in some really shifty operations...

KOS your PB markers are gone, your stuck with a bad AUG.
Had you gone back Immediatly you stood a chance. Hero made a deal with a minor so its not binding all you need now is a cop who gives a shit. Your in luck Durham is a small town. Don't call him, don't go down, read line one again.
Merry Christmas

I wouldn't buy a stick of gum from those asshats. Always have been rip off artists with no ethics and always will be.

heh heh heh... that just reminds me of a surplus store here in town that when I went in looking for gear and he figured out that I was an airsofter; he decided to go into the details of how "illegal" airsoft was and all this stuff. Sat there listening and just waited for him to end. My response was that I'd checked with members of my family who are in the RCMP first before even looking here. But my favorite was when he told me that the green gas that the pistol use is illegal in canada. ^.^ Told him he'd better turn in his propane BBQ. Have never gone back there since, damn paintball stores.


Anyway back on topic, I'd try getting some sort of official party involved, if you don't go way of police then atleast find a family member or friend thats a lawyer or pay to get one. Police is probably your best route in this case really, and don't give him the time to just prove that he's an asshat, you've already got a few responses here that paint him a pretty slimy green colour.

Actually this advise is dead wrong. Both the police and the civil courts will view your concern with more credibility if you give the other party a reasonable time to pay/rectify before trotting off to complain to the courts. It makes you look reasonable and it makes your opposition look like they are dishonest but not replying.

Just be careful not to miss the civil limitation period which in ontario is two years.

Also be cautious where you get your legal advice.

LD

That's what I thought. I mean he could just say he "was busy, and could not find time to read emails". One week should be good?

Cautious, in regards to who I get it from? or...?

That's fine. I don't care if I'm stuck with it, as I could make some money back from it. The body looked like it was in tip-top shape, and someone may find use for the scope.. I just don't want to be at a complete loss.

In that a previous poster (Mcguyver) gave his opinion on your legal rights in these fact circumstances and was dead wrong.

By giving you the Aug he warrented that it was fit for the purpose for which it was intended. If he did not know that the Aug was screwed up, than he was negligent and breeched the implied warrenty.

If he knew the Aug was pooched when he gave it to you his conduct could be classified as fraudulent.

On the facts you have given me I would say you should pursue the matter vigorously.

LD

Your story is curious. Did you ever find out what the source of the AUG was? Where did it come from, who upgraded it, etc?

I recently dealt with an ASC user with a very similar story to yours. I don't know who the store was that he dealt with, but this is as far as I know:

This user sold (traded?) his fully tuned paintball markers and bought (traded?) a Steyr AUG from some surplus shop (again, I don't know the store.) He was told that it was fully upgraded with a Systema FTK and shot 400fps.

Upon taking it home, he discovered that it wasn't shooting right, and the gearbox sounded excessively loud.

He brought the AUG to me to have a look at it. The gearbox sounded *okay*, but nothing too excessive. It just sounded almost like how a high velocity gun would sound, if not a bit whiny. I figured a motor height adjustment would sort that issue out. I started looking at the feeding issue with the inner barrel. I took out the barrel and looked inside. Right away, I noticed that the hop up rubber's lip was warped completely out of shape and blocking the exit, preventing ANY BB from passing through. It was a jamming point.

So a note was made to replace the hop up rubber and I moved on to the gearbox.

I took the gearbox out to look at the motor height and right away, I noticed a tiny metal disc attached to the motor magnets. I didn't recognize the disc, so I just put it aside. It looked chewed up though. I turned the gearbox over in my hands and noticed that it had bearings installed... or what was left of them. 3 of the 6 bearings were blown to shit, with the spur gear barely hanging on. I'm surprised that the gearbox was still able to cycle, but that was the cause of the excessively loud noise. After checking the spring, I figured that was the cause of the blowing bearings, as it clocked in at almost 390fps. 6mm bearings are meant for no more than 350fps setups. Thankfully, the teeth on the gears weren't totally borked from the blown bearings no longer supporting the gears and were easily salvaged. And luckily, none of the ball bearings had gotten between the gear teeth and caused any major damage.

On further inspection in to the gearbox, I noticed not even ONE shim was used against the gears. No wonder the bearings blew!

Anyways, I replaced the bearings, degreased and regreased the whole gearbox, properly shimmed the gears, replaced the hop up rubber, readjusted motor height and the gun was firing like a dream again.

He got the gun at a decent price, but it was a perfect example of why I would never recommend a newbie to buy a second hand gun, unless they have someone experienced with them to look over the details. A new user unfamiliar with how a proper gun should sound and/or operate may end up continuing to firing a non-functional gun, hoping to figure out what's wrong, and in the end, cause more damage through excessive operation of malfunctioning internals.

Apparently he's been making offers to other people while I had the downpayment... Ugh.. Well according to scooby, the Aug was taken down. He may have sold it to someone else; However, that'd put him in more shit, seeing as I have a receipt stating the transaction info, condition of the gun, and his(jeff) name...

RESOLVED

Thanks to 666, and Barry!! I owe you guys a round!

Also met Zeonprime. Gotta love those unexpected run-ins. :)

More detail please.

What was the resolution?

Such an anti-climax isn't it?!

LOL more interested in what the resolution was...

Seriously dude, don't leave us hanging :(

You have to finish the story man, so tell us how it was resolved!

Words and negotiations....nahhhh....Fisti cuffs

Well, what happen was I got a pm from a user (666), and was refered to someone who knew him quite well. He had a talk with Jeff, and Jeff came around.

I went in last night, and had a talk with him personally. Got some money, and some gear (I know what you're all thinking... "why would you give him business after that?" Well, to answer in one word: Convenience.) that I needed..

No fists were thrown. hahaha sorry guys!

I'm sorry but this whole affair has an odor to it. Sounds like faults on both sides…

I hate to say it man, but resolving this issue like this just encourages him to rip off someone in the future. I'm glad you resolved it to your likeing,
but in a case like this it would have been nice to see the cops bust his ass to prevent him from ripping off some poor dude in the future.

faults on both sides? Care to clarify that?

I posted the problem in hopes of getting it resovled, and getting the word out that he's crooked. If anyone from ASC gets ripped off by him, they don't have an excuse...

I have no doubt in my mind that it encourages him, infact, he was ripping some paintballer off while I was there... He's got a real shady operation going on, not to mention all his firearms violations... However, if I've stopped just one person from dealing with him, I've done my part.

^_^

Hero's prays on consumers who don't do their homework and those who are sloppy or don't show the savvy to look around. Anyone on this board for more than 6 months in Southern Ontario knows better, we've all just stopped talking about it because its common knowledge.

Glad to see it was resolved and worked out for you in the end and aleast i know not to do my business with him in future

As an alternative, you can try beaver's. My friend works there, and I've been going there for over 2 1/2 years, with all great experiences.

For the record, Hero was given the boot and delisted by Ebay. You don't have to be a genius to figure out why.

Whole place seemed kinda shifty on my first visit, many things way overpriced (129.99 for a PB mask that I've seen at the splatters proshop being sold for 80 as just one example of many).

Think Scooby mentioned that they don't have airsoft guns in the store anymore. Jeff asked me while I was in the store making my very first visit to the store to track him down a G&P Pulse Rifle conversion kit for a thompson he has in the backroom. I directed him to ASC, he explained that he wasnt really into the "computer thing". So to be nice I made some inquiries and will be nice to also call him back today to let him know it would have to be ordered and shipped, probably not the answer he was looking for but ah well. When I heard some kid ask about Airsoft guns (And he was so obviously a kid, so no old fart jokes). Jeff said he didnt have any in stock. I also asked him directly if he sold to under 18 airsoft which I received a "No" to.

I'm going to personally stick to shopping at Army Issue for many reasons but primarly cause I trust it's owner.

Atreyu you weee Scot it's a let down cause you know you wanted to be the one to post the random "I met Zeonprime" comment yourself :) PFFT! hehe

well off to test some water chemistry and drink my coffee (not in that particular order)

Well, you probably could have put the guy out of business and stopped a shiload of people from getting scammed, but ah well... maybe one day he'll rip off a cop or a mobster or something :D

lol yeah, haha. Maybe one day he'll rip off some tony montana type, and end up in a trunk!

Where's Greylock with the Use the Search Button Rant?

Search Hero Surplus
results

Whats your Excuse KOS?

And Like ZeonPrime Says
Shop at Army Issue

Trader Rating

Let this be a lesson to you.
"Army Issue will love you long time, and it won't burn when you pee."

My excuse is that he was willing to buy my guns. I was desperate, and needed to get them sold-FAST.

Man i'm going to have to drop by some time since all i hear is good things about your store.

Yay and so ends another chapter in the dilema called "life and its lessons" next weeks episode is "I send $4000 to help a diposed dead Nigerian General's wife move his funds in hop of gettin $12,000 for my troubles"...

All kidding aside, glad this worked out to your satisfaction man.

This guy sounds like a real creep but in retail there is always a guy willing to hose you to make a profit at your expense!

And so you were willing to take a risk and deal with this guy despite his reputation. Sound's like you went out of your way to do so... then posted 'foul' when a shady deal is not satisfying. Were you just speculating on the AUG's condition or did you open it up? Did he tell you he sold something he alreay sold to you? etc..

I'm glad you were able to work out something in the end. I'm sorry if I missed something but it does not sound like a clear case of scamming to me.

Why didn't you do the deal with Beavers? If he's so Tight with you you shoulda had no worries.
Careful with your response now there is more to this than you may perceive so Honesty would be your best bet.
Cheers

Larry has been thinking about getting more into the paintball market, however, he hasn't started* anything yet. I would have sold him my guns, had he been interested. He was not, so that left me with little choices.

I've delt with Larry many times, he has never attempted to sucker me into something.


EDIT: he has started , but only with some paintball-specific vests.

I didn't know about his reputation. I had delt with him once before and everything went smoothly.

Also he told me the aug was "brand new", and fired "great". So I put a deposit on it while under the impression that it was infact new, and fired "great". If that doesn't sound like a scam to you, then I don't know what will.

Sorry Kos, I didn’t get this info in your previous posts. You actually wrote…

which is an odd inquiry for a "brand new" item. I take it you now know for sure it was not new and did not fire great. You haven’t told us how you know this since you did not take possession of the AEG.

When I read this whole story it seems straight forward. You put $300 down payment on an AEG (+ mags, scope etc…) Later when you had second thoughts about this deal you emailed the guy asking for more info and possibly making accusations that the AEG was not in the condition he said it was when you bought it. If you have a receipt that indicates “new” you should have little concern at this point; but since no response came to your email you posted on ASC that you need help. I don’t think you even tried to phone the guy.

I grant you the guy at Hero’s overcharges his customers. I do not buy stuff there myself because I can get it cheaper elsewhere. I just can’t find any evidence in what you have posted here that he was scamming you.

Again, I am glad it worked out OK.

well I see you are very familiar with his ways then. Did you mention your troubles to him as well?

No.

Aw come on Scarecrow, Hero is a great place. They sold me my first set of throwing knives when I was 13.

Last time I was in there, months and months ago, I asked Jeff where he gets his airsoft guns from. Which supplier, and does he mention that he resells them at a mark up in his store. He didnt appreciate that question and refused to answer. He needed to go sell a TM GBB to a couple ganstas anyways. At least I scared off some kid in cadets looking to buy a box of marked up IMP's.

O man... KOS thats pretty screwed up. I hope you get the shit sorted out. Heros Army Surplus eh? I'll keep in mind to never buy from them.
I do upgrades myself now, it's less costly and I know that no one is going to tamper with my gun.
If you need help with your gun KOS let me know. I work on V3 Gearboxes.
I have many professional guides on opening and upgrading your gearbox.


Hahaha first set of throwing knifes. I had a butterfly knife when I was 13. Not anymore though. Now that I look back at it it was pretty dangerous and very illegal.
Heros Army Surplus should be shut down, there has been some bad rep about them before. This is not the first incident. What are IMPs?

IMP's are the Canadian equivalent to MREs. Only a LOT better.

Haha sounds killer. Army food rocks when your on out trips.

You obviously haven't had to live on them for weeks on end! I'd rather eat my belt - at least it won't constipate me!

OH DEAR GOD!

I've been told the shepard's pie is nice ;) :p

Atreyu your lucky mine either give me the shits like you wouldn't believe or i throw up. I now carry a loaf of bread and a jar of pb with me on ex's

I usually hit up Mr Sub before hand. It's good for at least one meal... and a lot of offers of cash. I was out once and had IMP's for 2 weeks. Man, I was looking for liquid dynamite to unclog me. The ham omlette can be used for street hockey, and the mac' an' cheese can plug a hole in the hull of a destroyer. The best is the honey/peanut butter in a tube: "DO NOT EAT" in bold letters on the label. WTF?!

The 2004 Hungarian goulash and i have fond memories of me getting wicked food poisoning

I actually didn't find most of the IMPs too bad. I've definetly had to eat worse.

Yeeeppp. It's what you get for fucking over unsuspecting victims.

I haven't lied about anything, and the fact that the other guy hasn't replied, just backs me up.

Heh..

Well Jeff is a crook and I know this from personal experience. I bought what was supposed to be an original german egg grenade with a dummy fuse in it for $199.00. When I got it home I thought something was funny so I started checking my resources and low and behold what he sold me was a Gmax repro german egg grenade right down to the mfg code. I called him and he swore up and down it was original. At the same time my good friend Jack who was there with me had bought a dewatted navy colt revolver. When we got home and Jack took the revolver out of the bag it had been switched for a non-gun copy. The next day Jack drove back to Jeff's and walked in went behind the counter took the dewat and replaced it with the non-gun and loudly said to Jeff I'm here for the revolver I bought. Jeff did a bit of tap danceing that it was an honest mistake.... ya right!!!.
He is a crook and a liar... I called him before the gernade thing asking if he had any east german peacoats in large sizes and he said he did so I took a 3 hour drive down and the peacoats weren't east german they were american he had to be blind not to see the the US anchor buttons and the label inside said Made In The USA(not exact words)
I had a chance to to talk to one of his ex emplyees and he related a story that Jeff had him call this dealer in BC looking for a dewatted mp 40 the dealer then called Jeff and aranged to buy the mp 40 Jeff had. He bought the mp40 from Jeff to sell to the so called customer who Jeff had set up. Basically rooked the dealer to buy the gun thinking he had a sale for it when all along it was a scam.
I remember reading a post somewhere that Jeff had a break in and got ripped good well I say what goes around comes around you burn people long enough you will get burned good in return

Exactly!

Everytime someone asks me about army surpluses, the first thing out of my mouth is usually : Stay away from AAA, and Hero's.

To this day, Beaver's is the only place I go to.

anderson and anderson? if so whats wrong with them?

Not A&A, AAA (triple A surplus) in Kensington market, downtown Toronto.

WTF? How'd you get that?

I believe he is referring to AAA Surplus, here in Toronto. What is the issue with them anyway? Just wondering since they are not too far from me but never bought anything there since they never have what I want.

oh sorry :P miss understood

Check out their prices. 50$ for parklands BDUs (just trousers).

You'll flip when you see Central Surplus's prices. $65 for Parkland trousers.

How the food in the Joint? You may well be chewing your Belt.


Oh By the way I am the guy In the GTA to see for your goodies, I'm also a big sponsor of AS games in Ontario and supporter of ASC. Like playing? Give the business to those who give back.