Advice on Aquiring Inexpensive Airsoft Guns for Film
 

Hi guys,

I'm looking to your expertise for some advice here. I am an independant filmmaker in Toronto, and I am gearing up for production of my feature next summer. The film is a modern adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, in which the Queen is a drug dealer and the Rabbit is a paranoid schitzofrantic. Needless to say, the script includes it's fair share of guns.

Now, my shopping list includes the following:

4x MP5s (for the 'cards'... the Queen's entourage)
2x Silver Berrettas
2x UZIs
1 PSG1 (or similarily sexy sniper rifle for the Queen)
And the probaably a few CSI SR-16s and AK-47s, but those are just gravy.

Note that, their functionality is not paramount, and these will never actually be loaded with pellets, nor used for anything besides props on private property. Because of this, I am looking for cost-efficient guns that look their part without close inspection. As you might have imagined, I have had alot of trouble finding exactly what I want in Canada. To my dismay, most of my most affordable options seem to only be available from American retailers, such as www.airsoftsurplus.com

An idea of what I'm looking for, from said retailer:
http://airsoftsurplus.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=009
http://airsoftsurplus.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=020
http://airsoftsurplus.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=001
http://airsoftsurplus.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=002

Thank you for your help and time guys. I appologize in advance for any ignorance I may portray on the this subject, I know very little about guns, besides their looks- which makes sense, given my profession.

Thanks again.

Do you have all the permits and allowances that will let you film with replica weapons within city limits? Have you notified the appropriate authorities of your intentions?

Every 10 minutes or so someone comes in saying they're a filmmaker.. so its just good to know.

I should also mention, I have looked at all of the Canadian retailers listed here, and I am afraid that their product line is far too rich for my blood. It seems that their guns are based on both functionality AND looks, when I only need the former.

Nope, I don't have a permit, and I don't plan to get one. I am not shooting within the city limits. I am only from Toronto, not shooting the film here.

If you must know, the film is being shot in the middle of a sod field in Alliston Ontario.

Point is, if some farmer drives by and sees a bunch of people in a field with guns... you'll be met with some unpleasant response from the police.

There are quite a few memebrs of the film industry here on board, including Skruface I believe. They might be able to point you in the right direction, and confirm that you've taken all necessary precautions and conformed to procedure. 'Film Makers' are met with intense scrutiny on this board, as most real film makers (even independant and on a budget) get a master of arms to secure the props for them.

It's only one farmer. ;) We have secured a location in which the only surrounding property is his, and his alone. In addition, the schedualed location is not within sight of any highway or residential/commercial buildings.

I think you're missing the point here.

Are you talking about a gun wrangler, or just someone who can secure the props legally and pass them on to myself for the filming?

If gun wrangler, no, I cannot afford one. If the other, I would be very interested in this course of action.

Unfortunately, I would not say I am involved with the film 'industry,' as this film of only $10,000 (including equipment) is definately not for profit, only publicity.

OK, and I'm honestly not trying to seem aggressive here, what was the point exactly? The only people who see this set will be the crew, the actors, and the owner of the property, who has agreed to all of this in advance.

As a disclaimer, I will repeat, if I am missing somthing here, please excuse my ignorance.

Renting the equipment, along with having a master of arms will not only be safer, but it might not be that much more expensive.

The cheapest guns I ever saw in Canada are about 200$ a piece, a far cry from the 12$-50$ from that site.

Which is why I want those REALLY REALLY cheap guns. Unfortunately, a 'master of arms' is out of the question. Most of my shooting dates, are dependant on the weather. Some scenes will be held off, for example, untill we have a cloudy day. Master of Arms cost money per hour, and have to be booked in advance (I can only assume). Due to the nature of this film, I can't swing that sort of cash. Plus, I want to have these guns for future projects.

What you have to do to get any kind of airsoft; get age-verified, and contact one of the Canadian Retailers. See if they have something cheap that fits your needs. If not, sorry.

What you really have to do even if you're in the middle of nowhere, is follow the advice given here; get the proper permits anyway. Airsoft are still considered Replicas at the very least and that means paperwork.

Not advising the authorities, specially these days, is asking for the kind of attention you cant afford.
Your choice entirely.

Oh, and I hope by 'safer' you don't mean physically safer for the cast and crew, because, as I said, I wont even be purchasing ammunition, let alone loading it into the guns.

So to answer your original question, no, there aren't any dirt cheap guns in Canada. It's no worth the hassel to import.

Ok, I take back the 'I don't plan to get one' statement, and replace it with 'I might consider getting one'. How much do these permits cost and do they require a course? Also, once I have a permit, am I not legally able to import the weapons anyways? If not, how do the Canadian retailers do it?

If you don't have one, you won't get one. Pretty simple formula.

Canadian retailers are going through brokers, with proper permits. I'm a licensed business in Ontario, and I can advise you, they're not very generous with these permits.

Care to elaborate?

Plain answer, you obviously dont have the cash or the time to spend to get an importation permit. Sorry.
And you're still looking at about $200 per gun for the cheap stuff. And... you still need to go throught the age-verification process.
Please read the Information section of this site? There are no cheap shortcuts for what you want to do. Many tried before.

I can't see anything on the site that tells me how to get an importation permit. Also, is an importation permit and a replica firearm ownership permit the same thing?

Don't assume that I don't have the money to aquire such things, I never said I didn't. I am very kindly asking what, in my position, it the best course of action. Considering that I am buying upwards of 8-12 guns, as cheap as they may be, would an order that large be enough for a retailer to import for me?

Jesus, I want to see this movie :-D
Sounds wicked, anyways...

I haven't bought from these guys, but www.canadianairsoft.ca has a few entry-level AEGs for a bit.
Mabye, just mabye, you could borrow some from some local players, with them there. Remember, as the other people said, permits and other things are neccessary. You could ask some people in the immediate area, anyways... there should be one or two people.

Nobody is telling you how to get the guns you want for cheap because of three main reasons. We don't know how, we don't want to, or it's impossible.

Most of us fall in the first category. We want cheap guns but we don't know how, so we don't.

If there are people who know how, they're not going to tell you because they don't trust you, can't be bothered to take the time to tell you, or want to keep a monopoly and make profit.

Or maybe it's just plain impossible in Canada. You do know that non-functioning items that look like real firearms are illegal in Canada right?

Yea, so nobody can help you so stop asking. If you must ask, ask a retailer, but I'd doubt they help you.

My best freind is actually related to the owner of Wasaga Paintball, and he is currently looking into finding some lenders. I have to see how that developes.

The berretas on this site are pretty affordable! I might consider the guys for that particular part of my shopping list. :tup:

You're welcome, anyways...
Remember, follow the appropriate rules. You don't want a SWAT team raining on your parade, it's probably not going to be fun...

EDIT: Try searching around. I don't have much experience with the movie business, but I DO remember a large thread with spiel about different people you have to hire to make the movie legally.

You could always contact (email or call) a retailer and see if they'll import those guns for you.

I do believe I will be attempting that. :nod:

BTW everyone, I thought I had ought to post my website, so that I would seem to be a more legitamate "filmmaker" to you. Here you go:

http://www.farfromsubtle.com

I just watched one of your animations, and I can honestly say I want those 3 minutes or so of my life back.

if you have a licensed film production company a canadian retailer is legally allowed to rent guns to you, but you may not have in your possession more than 3 at any one time. this is contingent on you possessing a valid film production license as outlined at www.cfc.gc.ca and you finding a retailer willing to rent them to you. you can try specarms as Will does that (or used to anyway) or any retailer who imports. if a retailer has a license to import prohibited devices for film production (the one everyone talks about for airsoft) then that license is for the express purpose of rental to ONLY licensed film production companies. if you don't have a registered company nor a licensed film production company then you're pretty much stuck buying at retail.

Uhh, that was uncalled for. Have you ever USED flash? I think the cartoons are incredibly impressive, because I use flash and know how incredibly frustrating it is.

Actually I have used flash, and I don't claim to be an amazing animator. Just because one doesn't know how to create something doesn't mean they know its bad. I've watched movies that I know are bad, yet I"m sure there was millions put into production. I've played videogames that I think are bad, obviously I'd never make one.

Sorry, those three minutes are non-refundable. Your $0 will remain mine forever.

By the way, The Little Buzzers were on CBC, and yes, I was paid for it. ;)

I know you are trying very hard to appear professional, but... correct grammar and spelling, even here, would help a lot.

In general, until you have a production permit, you are screwed. Getting guns will be expensive (retail prices as mentioned). And until you go through the age-verification process (information on that is listed in these forums) you wont be able to get anything.

This does not remove the problem that these types of guns, even used as props, fall under several stiff legal rules.

You're trying to make a movie. No matter where you do that it WILL attract attention. Now I dont know what part of the world you grew up in, but if ANYONE sees guys with machine guns in a field they WILL call the police. That's why you better have the permits. It will make a difference between a temporary annoyance, or jail, or the morgue.

These things look real even down to close visual inspection. Never underestimate the nervousness of the public specially in these times of terrorism. No, we're not joking with you. We're killing ourselves trying to get you to understand that this may mean getting shot for real, and we're telling you over and over how to avoid that.

How else can I put this... do you have the right to carry a real machine gun? If like most of us the answer is no, it's up to you to follow advice or risk the same legal consequences.

Ok? We're not trying to bust your ass, but man... please listen? The resources are here for you to read, just read them.

Do me a favor, and read my posts. I'm being very receptive to advice on airsoft, though, as you may have noticed, not on your advice about filmmaking (thanks for the spelling nazi moment, by the way).

Thank you to everyone who PM'd me with some very helpful tips, from you, I have gotten the information I was looking for.

Uh oh!

I was personally highly entertained.

Your response to other may have been, but your response to Greylocks was not overly receptive. Trust me, he was very polite and patient with you. I understand if you are feeling frustrated, but it would be in your best interest to be polite and patient with him as well. He did have a couple valid suggestions.

I'll take this opportunity to appologize if my last post seemed a little aggressive. Chalk it up to a groggy, grump morning.

Once again, I have gotten a wealth of useful information from the folks here, I am very grateful. Based on this info, I can make a reasonably more educated decision on these purchases than I would have been able to make before.

No offense taken, I'm trying to save you from a huge world of grief. The kind of grief that can include a criminal record.
In a very weird way, you'd have better chances using real guns with no bullets. That's the insane part.

I'm not sure about this, but if this movie is being filmed outside of city limits, what's to stop him from saying that he's just playing a game of airsoft and video taping it? Phone the cops to tell them that you're going to play a small game of airsoft and jsut start taping?

Don't do this until verified by by men better than myself.

I have no advice for the movie biz, but those flash animations were awesome :D
Especially the dancing to the electronica...very well done!

Here are some guns you could look at. About $150 each, without shipping and junk. I wouldnt recommend them for playing too much, but they might work for your purpose.

http://www.canadianairsoft.ca/ShowCategory.php?CategoryID=28

I'm started to come to that conclusion. 8-O

Hmmm, is this to avoid the filming permit? Because, since I am outside Toronto limits, and Alliston doesn't have an organized film industry, I don't think any of that will be neccessary.

Thanks. :-)

Thanks for the link. ;)

Try getting Spring stuff.The Spring Rifle and or Pistols on Canadian Airsoft go to about $100 and down.Cocking after each shot shouldn't be a problem if your not shooting anything.

Just phone the cops to let them know that you will be filming using airsoft. So if someone calls the cops they will know that you are using airsoft. If you are too lazy to do that and would rather save a few mins and put your actors and yourself at risk then thats your problem

Farfromsubtle...

I'm a student filmmaker at Seneca college. Last year, i shot a short entitled "Pawns" wherein i used one pistol replica in a private residence in and around the wilson road and the 400. I called the local police detachment and let them know who i was and what i was doing and with what items, due to the fact that i'm a student, i'm permitted to use replicas in any capacity and don't require a peace officer with me, so long as the action stays on private property.

I sent a fax of my crew list, my props list, and my approximate time-ins and time-outs... never even had an officer drop by to see how it was going.

As for a small to medium budget film, if you need guns and need a field to use 'em in, go FAR up north and find a patch of land with no one in sight.

I love how some folks are still jumping in here assuming that I wouldn't be informing the police that I have fake guns, though I have said many times, I would be.

Thankfully, I still fall within the realm of 'student.' Though I am done film school (humber), most of my crew are still currently enrolled. Wow, were you within sight of the 400 with those guns?!

And don't worry, I already found my patch of land (that being, sod property covering almost ALL of Alliston), and there are many places without a soul in sight. So long as the police in the air are aware, I'm safe.

!Q
 

i enjoyed the animations and had a little laugh. i like how the sounds were timed appropriately with the syllables....one thing...the sounds themselves were a little irritating...nice scenes though and i like how you put it together!

You should be alright, just make sure that the cops know what's shakin and as well that the land you're using is either not owned by anyone, or if it is, acquire a release form from them. F*ck, i can probably pass you up a couple of templates, i had to go through a shitload of them with my latest film (which is now in post... AVID editing rawks.)

My buddy Dave shot a WW2 film up in alliston with deact M1's and some guy apparently had an airsoft Tommy... Film came out nice and crisp, shot on an XL2.

If you need any help, advice etc. please don't hesitate to PM me.

GiordanoWC, dude, the land is indeed owned I already made a deal with the farmer. ;) (I've had to say that about 50 times now, lol).

The XL2 has a nice picture by the way, and I like how it has native 16:9. I own a DVX100a. :D

Heh, yeah, many find the voices annoying... and others love them! Kids especially. ;)

actually, i found them annoying after episode 1 (when i made my initial post), by episode 2 they werent annoying at all anymore.

Yeah, they grow on you. But I also worked on making their voices a little less harsh and jarring in Ep. 2