NVGs and ITAR - What?
 

So I'm finally in the market for an NVG so I'm trying to read as much as possible to prevent a bad purchase

Right now I've settled on a few Gen1 Devices (Gen2 is way out of my budget) and I've found there to be great deals down in the States.

However, I know about US ITAR and how NVGs are included on there. But, I've also read that Gen1 (and Gen1+, considering the '+' is just a marketing thing) are not ITAR-Restricted.

Is this true? Can Gen1+ NVGs be exported out of the US without me serving time?

Don't touch Gen1/1+. Terrible tubes. Requires IR even in areas with some ambient lighy. Save your money and buy a Gen 3 from someone on the forums.

I'd love some Gen2s or Gen3s but I simply don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a unit I'll use maybe once or twice monthly, if that.

^ Time to save some more.

It's winter, you got till spring!

Okay, sure. Let's hypothetically say that I hit the jackpot and can and will get Gen2s and am getting a Gen1 for a friend. I'm buying both units from the USA.

Will both get stopped by ITAR or am I good to buy Gen1/2 from the US?

Gen 1 is not useful in airsoft. I don't own NV because I'm not willing to drop the money on a Gen 3 unit, but I've tried Gen 1 and all it does is fuzzily outline shit you can already sort of see with your naked eye.

Friends don't buy friends Gen 1 units.

Guys pls just help with the ITAR

In general, Gen 1 or 1+ are not restricted for export.
Some Gen 2 units are restricted and some are not.
Most if not all Gen 3 are restricted.

before you even think of getting an NVG, get yourself age-verified. thats a start.

AV has nothing to do with gear.

No legit seller in the USA will ship ITAR restricted parts outside of the USA.

Drive down and sneak them out or get you buddy to mail them and prepare for misery when the group gets caught. The USA is very particular about the advantage the new NVGs gives them and they don't play games with anyone who tries an end run at the export rules.

Just buy inside Canada.

Be aware they're a bit useless except for the very narrow once or twice a year night game. Be aware when you've got 3K of relatively delicate hardware that you paid for hanging out in the wind waiting for someone on the other team to hose it down. Be aware that you need the proper mount and helmet hardware so you aren't trusting your 3K tube to a ebay banned J-arm.

Buy on here form another player who's been down the path already and has priorities that have changed.

Gen 1/2 are legal to bring in. But, it is all dependant on the company if they have filled out the ITAR paper work. Most don't because the market up here is so small. Little legal known fact, it is against the law for a non American to look through a Gen 3 set of NVG's/FLIR systems. There are a few good companies that sell the systems here, go with them as they have all of the paper work in order.
I have always been tempted to order a set from China of the knock off 14's. But, for 350$ American, not sure of the risk.
R711

Very few of the companies in canada that can get gen 3 out of the USA will sell to civilians. ITAR contracts prohibit the sale to civilians. Many companies offer gen 3 to military and law enforcement. ITAR not only dictates what can leave the USA, but also what and who it can be sold to or used by once it leaves.

Gen 1 is useless for airsoft, the most common nvg in use are d-300s which many use, are a solid gen 2+ unit. Used they will run you $1600, a batch was imported several years ago and they do pop up forsale from time to. Time.

Seriously man. Don't bother with importation. Much more money than what you could get away with spending.

Get age verified, get on the classifieds forum, and wait for a Gen 3 or really good Gen2+ to pop up for sale and grab it. I only use my PBS-14 at MilSim events, and the odd time on a night hike with the girlfriend, and even with the hole it left in my wallet I still think it's worth every penny spent.

Plus, if/when MilSim/night vision/airsoft isn't your thing anymore, you can sell it for essentially the price you paid for it and make pretty much all your money back. Good night vision doesn't really depreciate in value over time, so it's almost like having a lifetime money-back guarantee.

Food for thought.

Coming from the guy that started with a Armasight spark means it's pretty accurate.

If you still want to go Gen 1 stick with rifles scopes. They have larger lenses to capture ambient light. You do not need any special red dots or lasers to aim. That being said do not cheap out. I've had the luxury of trying the newer Gen 1s and the fisheye and hum is pretty much non existent. Rule of thumb if it's below $500 it's probably a Gen 0, stick with Pulsar, Yukon, armasight or sight mark.

To specifically answer your ITAR question, Gen 1 and Gen 1+ are not restricted, neither is Gen 2 and Gen 2+ in general. However, most night optic companies and suppliers will not ship outside of the US as a general rule. If you're dead set on a Gen 1, then make sure it's actually Gen 1+, and go with a Yukon and a good IR emmiter. Ensure you get the proper mount and protective equipment for it as well. I found all Gen 1 night vision that I have tried to be very frusterating. You need a good solid moonlight, it makes the darks darker, it doesn't see well through brush, dust or shadow, and you can usually do better with your naked eye. On top of that, the quality jump from Gen 1 and Gen 1+ to Gen 2 and Gen 2+ is like going from a Volkswagen beetle that doesn't run and has had a hobo podding, shitting and living in it, and then some highschool kids come by and burn it until it's just a rusty frame, to a high end Lamborghini with a million dollars in aftermarket custom upgrades. Gen 2 is not nearly as clear as Gen 2+ making the price point not worth buying down. Gen 3 and up has some very nice features like auto-gating and what not, but are not necessary for airsoft, especially because the price doubles or more from Gen 2+ to go up.

Canada has retailers that sell NVGs, and good quality ones too. There are other methods of getting them, such as the classifieds, but I'd also recommend for saving for a decent Gen 2+ unit. They can be had for $1,200 - $1,500 on occasion. After running all three generations of NVGs, I opted to wait until I had the money for Gen 2+ or better.

ITAR restrict night vision based on a system called "Figure of Merit" which roughly translates to "how awesome it is"
You'll see a stat on some spec sheets "FOM". Anything above 1500 is ITAR restricted.
FOM is determined by multiplying the resolution/mm of a tube by the signal to noise ratio.
So if you have 45L/mm resolution and 35:1 signal to noise, you're at FOM 1575

So you CAN get gen3, but it has to fall under FOM 1500, which would make it pretty terrible gen3.

Most gen2 falls between FOM 1100-1800
ALL gen1 falls below FOM 1500

Now, one thing you have to understand about the NVG community is they typically don't understand that for most people, $3000+ is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on something you'll use twice a year, especially when your gun only cost $350. When you've got 2 PTW's and $2000 in gear, $2200 on a high end gen2 unit is not so bad.
So pretty much everyone with gen2 or gen3 is going to recommend gen2 or gen3, because it IS honestly way the hell better than gen1.

BUT, that being said, the top end gen1 tubes are still better than nothing. I used a gen1 yukon for about 4 years, I still got kills with it, it still came in handy, and it only cost me $600.
The downside with gen2, is the "affordable" gen2 stuff in the ~$1200 range, is also crap.
I've seen a few cheaper gen2 tubes and you can see people at 120ft, but there's so much damn noise there's no way you can tell who's team they're on. The top end gen1 doesn't have much gain, but it's got zero noise.

So realistically, here are the performance gaps:
Yukon gen1 - $600
Gen2-HP - $2200
Gen3 - $2600-$3300

So as you can plainly see, massive jump from gen1 to good gen2.
I'm running that $2200 gen2 right now, and I really couldn't handle anything worse for noise, and that's coming from a guy that ran gen1 for 4 years.
You do want to strive to have gen2, BUT, it's like an airsoft gun. We don't recommend systema PTW's to brand new players.
You get them to buy a decent $300 G&G, then give them a taste of the PTW, then they'll eventually go spend the money on it.
Gen1 will hold it's value fairly well anyway, and it's WAY the hell easier to sell used gen1 for $300 than it is used gen2 for $2000. (Just look at how long PTW's hang around sometimes)

All gen1 is gen1+, and all gen2 made after 1970 is gen2+. Ignore the plus signs, they're gimmicks.

One thing you may want to look into that nobody around here knows very much about (me either) is digital gen1. Always get high end when dealing with gen1, but supposedly the digital stuff is pretty comparable to gen2 and between the two price ranges.
Only major downside that I know of is they go through batteries pretty quick. But worth looking into.

I think that was the most no BS way to explain ITAR haha, right on mate.

Can someone recommend some good gen2(+?) devices? I cannot afford a gen3...

And were exactly owuld you get protection for them, like lense covers for holosights and red dots....

PM Qlong, see what he has in stock.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I'm going to save for a bit more and see where that lands me down the road.

Appreciate all the great info.