RA Tech Aluminum nozzle problem!!! need help
 

Ok so I need some help. Hopefully you guys with your knowledge will either know what to do or be able to point me in the right direction.
So i just bought this RA tech aluminum nozzle and i installed on the stock Bolt carrier so every thing fitted perfect when i installed it , and the Aluminum nozzle moves flawlessly inside the BC also the steel guides supplied with the nozzle they fit in place perfectly,
So i put the bolt carrier inside the gun ( WE M4 CQB-R) and i pull the charging handle a couple times to make sure it moves good and it moves great and very smooth BUT i noticed some slight difference from when the plastic nozzle was installed ,

The difference is when i would cock the gun with the plastic nozzle installed the plastic nozzle tend to stick inside the Hop up unit for a few seconds till it retract back inside the Bolt carrier ( i don't know if any one noticed that ) but with the aluminium nozzle the head is very smooth that it never stick inside the hop up unit, Maybe one or two times it would stick but most of the time its very smooth that it never stick.
So i thought may be the plastic nozzle is bad and the correct behavior should be the Aluminum nozzle not sticking , So i go on and i put a magazine with no BB just to see if it would cycle smoothly and it cycles smoothly with out any problems.
well up to this part everything seems very good and in place just like the stock parts so i go on and i load the magazine to try it,

So i shot the first shot on semi it goes very well the second shot goes very well and the third but then all other shots after that just drops off of the barrel a few foot just like u spitting it and some time it spits 2 BBs at a time, So i thought maybe its out of Gas so i refill it and shoot it but No the same thing it spits out the BBs instead of shooting.
At that point im scratching my head and i dont know what can possibly be wrong every thing fits perfect better than the plastic nozzle so whats the deal,
So i install back the plastic nozzle and i checked if the tip of the plastic nozzle stick for those few seconds inside the Hop up unit while charging the handle and YES it does so i load my magazine and i shoot on semi and to my surprise the guns shoots all the BBs in the magazine without a single misfire or double feed , i load another one same thing works perfect, So i install back the aluminum Nozzle and i check to see if it sticks like the plastic one inside the Hop up unit and some time it does and most it doesn't So i load the magazine and i try to shoot and the same results again happened but this time it tended to shoots 6 shots perfectly before it starting spitting the BBs.

So im sorry if my thread is long but im trying to give you a clear picture of what is happening because i searched the forum for a similar issue but with no luck , So at this point i don't know if the Aluminium nozzle should be a little bit rough that it would stick for a few seconds inside the hop up unit before retracting or that has nothing to do with the mechanism of shooting BBs in this guns .
Please guys any help would be appreciated and any thought even if you think that its irrelevant please share it may be it would help me . Thank you in advance for any help you would share.

Oh i forgot to mention , every thing is lubed very well , the Gun is only few months old and never had any problem what so ever with stock parts regarding shooting or misfire or any thing of that sort , I also followed that steps on the RA Tech website regarding fixing the performance of the Aluminum Nozzle by adding sealing tape in the lower seat of the Aluminum Nozzle.

I also wanted to add that at the time when it spitting the BBs the gas is cycling perfectly and the nozzle also is moving perfectly but the BBs don't shoot out it feels in my hand like the Gas just missed the BBs , Like the nozzle Retracted back very early that the Gas instead of going inside the Nozzle from the bottom then to the BB No it moves out and as a result it spits the BB because there is no force, I don't know if im explaining my self right but pardon me because English is not my main language.

So why'd you install the aluminum nozzle?


The RA-Tech nozzle seems problematic so who knows what yours is doing. Check out this video and maybe try that out, see if it helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPPn1zZtHI

the main reason im upgrading to aluminum nozzle is to get more fps and also for durabilty just in case the plastic one breaks as i seen alot of plastic nozzles break easily

i've checked that video earlier during my search , the problem that he has is by far different , he is complaining about consistency in fps mine doesn't even shoot or in other words it shoots very well but only the first 4 BBs but then it starts spitting , i was wounder if the magazine gets cold has something to do with it because i noticed while shooting with the aluminum nozzle that the magazine body was very cold .
what do you think ?
your response is appreciated

His problem (video guy) might not be that different than yours if it's about consistency (I didn't watch it):

I am guessing you have an npas in that nozzle. Do you have a Chrono? If you do, check your fps. There's chances that the npas is set pretty low and when shooting it changes its adjustment and output gets so low that it will just do what yours is doing

Might be a long shot but it's worth looking at

Also, try and make an effort to use the period, coma and enter a bit more. I couldn't read your whole post without loosing my head

Good luck

The guns shoots out of the box around 400-ish FPS; why do you need more anyways ? More FPS =/= Further travelling of BB's.

Durability ? Maybe, but it'll destroy everything around it before breaking. You can't find a new nozzle chamber that easily if your's breaks in the process.

I've been running my WE's with plastic nozzles forever. They don't break that easily if you do your basic maintenance and don't handle the gun like if it was RS.

You can buy a couple of plastic nozzles for the price of 1 aluminium one.

Do the maths; i've broken 1 nozzle in 2-3 years in my M4. Guess what option was the best moneywize.

I have same problem with my WE Scar OB
After I installed RA Tech nozzle

More than with the plastic nozzle?

In that case I'd say the aluminum one might be poorly designed and wastes a lot more gas per shot. Maybe check the seals and stuff, make sure they're properly lubed. See what the tolerances are like. The reason it may be moving so much more freely than the stock nozzle is that the seal is nowhere near sealing anything.

Im very sorry if I caused you headache reading I will adjust the original thread so its easier to read, sorry again

the NPAS is adjusted so that its on the higher fps , in another word its tighten all the way clockwise so that the gas path is fully open .

the thing is I spent the money on it, so I would love it to work and the other thing is we play here in open field and long ranges so most of us require longer travelling BBs


im really appreciating your help guys if you have any idea that you thing might help please share it , right now Im taking off the plastic nozzle and I will try install the aluminum nozzle with a new seal and see whats the out come

No what I meant that it moves very flawlessly that its very smooth , not very tight that it would sluggish but also not very loose , just exact place, I will change the rubber seal on it with a new one and see what would happen in a few minutes.

Thank you for taking the time to read and help

There's a steel replacement out now.

But that's also what I meant: if there's a really good seal there's going to be some friction, its going to be a but sluggish (which is why it needs to be kept well lubed). If it moves too easily then it's not sealing properly and gas is being wasted. Maybe a lot. Look at the o-ring at the back of the nozzle; it's not an expanding o-ring: if it's not pressing right up against the inside of the BBU you're losing gas.

And you didn't answer: does the mag get colder with the RATech nozzle than with the stock nozzle?

A steel replacement for what ? Nozzle or nozzle chamber ? Because in both ways, spending for either is a complete waste of money IMHO.

People seem to think that reinforced steel / aluminium upgrades = the best way to go for GBBRs.

Runniig everything OEM besides an NPAS and better bucking never gave me a hard time nor let me down during games.

The rubber O-ring seal in the back is just tight around the nozzle and its not loose also there is a little bit of friction inside the bolt carrier from the O-ring ,
i went and i got a new set of O-ring and i tried just a little bit ago and it gives the same results as well it shoots 3 or 4 sometime 5 shots before it lose force and starts spiting BBs .

And ya the magazine gets colder than when i use the plastic nozzle which is weird .

i think he meant that there is a steel hop up champer because its out now by New age company

what i dont get why does it shoot the first three or 4 shots good with no problem and then it fails on the rest of the shots ??
do you guys think its something that has to do with the stock bolt carrier and it should be changed to RA Tech steel bolt carrier ? , most of the guys i see online they always install the aluminum nozzle with the steel bolt carrier.

As with anything GBB each consecutive shot has lower FPS than previous one. With steel/alum. upgrades it is even worse. As Paradox mentioned, get a chrony and check your FPS.

ok so I went down the shop and I use their chrono just to get an idea on what kind of fps im getting . I ran 2 tests the first one with the original plastic nozzle then I swapped the nozzle with the RA tech Aluminum one
the temp outside is 45 Ce degree which is 113 fehrnhite

first test: (plastic nozzle)
370
385
360
335
362
345
373
363
349

second test ( aluminum nozzle ) adjusted to almost fully open on higher fps

436
414
429
no measurement
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
( no measurement the chrono don't measure anything and the BB just rolls out the barrel at no speed just the weight of the BB like if its free falling, few times 2 BBs would roll out the gun barrel )
when I was saying previously the the gun spits the BBs with the aluminum nozzle installed I meant the it comes out with no force or speed just rolling out the gun with its own weight plus a small amount of force from the shake of the gun but not from the gas force.

Ok maybe its time for me to chime in. First off, your FPS for your plastic nozzle has too much variance, your shot to shot FPS should not deviate that much. The FPS should gradually go down, but for yours, it seems like its everywhere.

In terms of the aluminum nozzles, I have had nothing but issues. First off, the FPS deviates a lot with the built-in NPAS, and the valve spring is supposed to rectify this issue by streamlining the FPS, but imo, its still not as good as the stock plastic nozzle. Second, the blowback is weaker with the aluminum nozzle probably because the nozzle window doesn't mate well with the gas route (Ive narrowed it down to this since Ive replaced the oring at the rear of the nozzle to ensure that it has good air seal with the bolt). The third drawback relates to what you have discussed regarding the nozzle sticking into the hop up chamber. IMO, you want a nozzle that slightly sticks into the chamber as opposed to one that immediately displaces when the bolt travels backwards. The reason is this: if the nozzle moves backward as soon as the bolt cycles, the nozzle window immediately misaligns with the gas route of the magazine causing gas to be wasted. You want a nozzle that can stick intermittently to the hop up chamber so that the nozzle window remains aligned with the gas route until the fire pin is allowed to pull back.

Your issue in turns of bb's dropping out could be a result of the loading arm on the nozzle being a tad longer than the stock, and as such, pushes the bb out of the chamber. In general, I do not advise using the aluminum nozzle as it is a waste of money.

Stick with the stock nozzle.

Exactly that.

And also, I have a "high power" nozzle I modifed from a factory one. "low" FPS is 505 ±5fps. "High" (with NPAS all the way open) is 700-ish.

All I did was shave the two "arms" of the rear nozzle section until the rear of the valve was just flush with the rear of the nozzle opening.

Aluminum/steel parts in a GBBR will REDUCE your FPS. You get INCREASED blowback/recoil when it works, but everything around gets damaged.

I have seen smashed hop-up chambers and even an exploded upper receiver (the steel bolt was ramming the hop-up chamber, which in turn rammed the barrel group, which broke off the threads on the receiver).

Best option: REMOVE the aluminum nozzle. Run stock nozzle and as many stock parts as possible.

Keep in mind that for the price of the aluminum nozzle, you can buy an "open bolt conversion kit", which includes a complete bolt carrier group, complete trigger group and complete hop-up/barrel group.

You will have to buy the later anyways within a year because your aluminum nozzle will have destroyed your hop-up chamber, and other than the steel "upgrade" (that will smash the upper receiver and bolt carrier by the way), the "open bolt kit" is the only way to get a replacement!