Will something like Operation Lion Claws ever be possible in Canada?
 

Will we ever have events like the OLCMS series such as IRENE take place in Canada? Something that takes place in a large urban type environment? Or are we just stuck with woods and open fields for the foreseeable future?

HotBox 1 & 2
Nightfall 1 & 2
Op Werewolf 1 & 2
OPERATION: RHINO 1 & 2

If your looking at the same scale/facility that Irene uses then no currently in Canada there isn't anything near the same level available to Airsofters. I attended Irene 10/11 and the MUTC field used was incredible. Nowhere near anything known of in Canada.

I'll take a Brian McIlmoyle or Viking game any day of the week!

you want Milsim? those are the guys

+1 on that:)

Well... I happen to have talked to John Lu in person, this past summer and he asked me about Canada and where it was financial depressed. lol

So since we don't have malls being abandoned or a whole city that is bankrupt, the answer is "not anytime soon".

Suddenly I want to move to Spain lol

http://www.independent.co.uk/incomin...dad-Real-3.jpg

http://d1435t697bgi2o.cloudfront.net...rport-0312.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/393...x3-940x705.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...3_2141525b.jpg

Claybank 1-4
Coldfront 1 & 2
Melville hospital games

We dont have huge facilities but occasionally we get to play at some pretty cool places
We're not quite as wasteful of space as others. Pretty sure you could have a 300 person milsim game in detroit and nobody would even know lol

I haven't been, but Irene is at a bought and built facility I believe. Things like land and supplies are more expensive up here, and player bases are smaller by comparison, unless you are right near one of our few major cities. What Canada does have, are ghost towns, but these can either be dangerous, or protected park sites. So any of the big buildings and things we have used such as the Melville hospital, or the BC ferrie, have been all destroyed or knocked down eventually.

I started playing Airsoft in Spain in 2008 and I played there for 2 years... our loved sport there is SICK! there is games every single weekend all around the country, in Madrid you have clubs playing games every week, like airsoftmadrid, campo delta, and many others. (and this is only Madrid!! at the other cities is the same)

There you can find abandoned cities towns and all kind of facilities, I had the chance to play in a military base, military bunkers, abandoned Jail, at the mountains, even a cargo ship!, etc etc etc, man... Spain is like heaven for airsofters. And the rules there are VERY strict, no one fucks around and the immortals are spotted chased and known by all the teams, so no one allows them to play in their fields. The distances and FPS are respected everywhere. I totally miss that place for this sport. And the economic crisis helped a lot with finding places to play, there is abandoned buildings or projects EVERYWHERE! The pics up here are abandoned airports (there is 2 close to madrid) And I guess the second one is Alcorcon, or some other close to the capital project, the country is full of those abandoned ones. To bad for the economy, AWESOME for us.

I thought Irene and other OLCMS games took place mostly in urban warfare training facilities for the U.S. Military. Does Canada not have such places for our military?

As far as I know, we have something like it, however, there's no way I could ever see it's use would being authorized for this purpose.

This isn't an urban facility.. but it is pretty much the largest acreage facility made available, in airsoft's most populous province of Ontario.

OP Triglav.

It's 500 acres, it's been posted to the games thread since June.. and yet it's struggling to attract 50 players at present.

Is it the price? Are Canadian players just too damn cheap?

Is it the travel location? Are Canadian players just too damn lazy to make the effort to get there, or rent a vehicle to get there?

Is it the season of the event? Are Canadian players, plainly put, just too damn Pussy..fair weather fighters only, if you will?

Does a large event require an urban component?

At 500 acres .. that'd comfortably fit 500 players .. 1 per acre.. think of it.

I suspect that Canadian players generally just aren't ready for OP Irene calibre games. Period. Not in the quantities and quality that are required.

We are in the west, and often have large games out this way. I haven't been to a game with 500, but a couple in excess of 300 on well over 300 acres. Harsh weather is common across the prairies, and we still play, until it is too cold for the guns at least. I've seen airsoft in a few provinces, and would have to say that Alberta may not have the most players altogether possibly, but there is definitely more money out this way. BC is my home and I love it here, but the best airsoft I've seen is between Alberta, Saskatchewam, and Manitoba. On a personal note, if I was going to do that much travelling for a game, I'd bother to go play somewhere more exotic. No offense.

A friend of mine in the forces told me that they had a small airsoft team they allowed to game in the training facilities. He was trying to setup an event to allow some private teams to come play, but after some consideration they felt allowing civilians in was a bad idea. Honestly though, we understood.

Another issue, is how some groups play a certain style, for instance military simulation, and would rather have 100 like minded players to game with, than 500 of whatever. Quality not quantity in essence.

^
Not meant in an offensive tone.

The "Urban Training Centre" at Petawawa is like five small buildings....

The issue with Triglave is that the organizers are not known by the community, people won't take a chance with a new host till they have proven they can put on a solid game. It's a characteristic of the Ontario community that is tough to overcome. Start small and build is the way to do it.

Force recon has followed this path, and built a solid following for their events.

If Triglave, as small as it will be goes off well this year, it will build

And is that the only Urban training centre in all of Canada?

Maybe google might help.

There's one in Gagetown... It's a couple of buildings but it's not very big either.

Just something special to note: JTF2 has done training at the PRZ Complex in Picton, ON. You can see it in this video:

JTF2 SPECIAL FORCES With CANSOFCOM - YouTube

IRENE occurs at the Fort Knox MOUT facility, known as Zussman KY. I agree with the idea of ghost towns as lots of provinces have them. The issue would be whether they are in fact 100% vacated, and then approaching the municipal government and the local constabulary to ensure everything is cleared and approved. Not an impossible plan, just not a very easy one either.

I'm not sure I would consider Oklahoma "exotic", but it ties in with your point about like-minded players. When the idea of EAST WIND got suggested to myself and a few others, we fell in love with it. This was exactly the type/style of play we preferred. On average the event draws about 100 people (or less), but they are devoted people. The style of game play is one I have yet to see reproduced here in Canada, but that's not to say it can't or won't be.

Admittedly, this is the first I've heard of TRIGLAV. I don't normally look at the out-of-province games on ASC, so I guess I'm at fault for that one ;) I am unable to attend as it is a time/money issue for me, but it does look interesting, so I'd definitely be interested in attending if it happens again in the future.

I would love to see something akin to any of the LC events happen here in Canada. I would love to see a decently-sized urban environment be used, but anyone who had the kind of cash needed to create such a field would have to have more than just the airsoft community to rely on for income. If it were possible to purchase something like a ghost town, slowly make repairs, and offer it to different agencies as a training facility, then it could be a possibility. But that's looking a *long* way into the future in a hypothetical situation.

Just a little food for thought....

There's always Zulu1...

Yes, yes there is :P

Now if only I could commute from Manitoba to Alberta all the time LOL! I couldn't make the time to attend their premiere event, however now that it's been postponed a bit I might be able to get the time from work. Travelling to the site in BC will be a pain, but I trust it will be worth it.

Big problem in canada I find is the actual physical distance one would have to go to play. If your in North Dakota you could drive a day or less and be in Florida for a game. Where if your in Toronto and want to go to Thunder Bay (somewhat north ontario) it's 20hrs. U could drive 24 hrs north and not leave ontario. Love this country for that but if some of our friends in BBC have an awesome op planned there's no way I can afford to drive for 2 days there play a two days back.

Group of guys in one solid vehicle driving in shifts can get pretty far. Winnipeg to the West Coast in just under 24 hours.

No I agree totally. Just saying that if we wanted to go from one end of our country to another it's prob 3-4 days rather then one. And I doubt any of us can take a whole week off work for even a 3 day op

Getting a week off "family" to play Airsoft would be more of an issue

Haha only 23 no family yet lol just work. But yes 3 days off anything work fam or payin for the three days lol is tough

The majority of players are in no way ready for that caliber of a game, not that I'd call those games actual milsim. Engaging the enemy is something that isually happens briefly for the most part. "Milsims" are usually just constant skirmishes with a larger goal in mind than kill the other team.

The majority of previous attempts at milsim have left many with a bitter taste in their mouthes and the term "milsim" carries certain conotations of a scripted, one sided fight with stacked teams. The Nightfall games are the only ones I know of where NO one had any complaints about the over all game or game control. The big issue is that users here will bitch amongst friends and other players, but will not post about their dislike or voice it to those who need to hear it.....

I think part of the problem getting players for triglave is where I have an issue. Back when I could have commited, green was locked out. I'll stay home before I'll play tan. Now that its open, none of my kit is packed, I don't know where most of it is because I didn't go dig out things like my goretex socks earlier. I'm simply not prepared and I'm unwilling to do the "mad dash" to get it all ready there are other things happening in most peoples lives at this time of year. Brian M Is also very right in his reply.

The cost is reasonable. That said, when unemployed, with no source of income, its a hell of alot of money.

That's not new information. Everyone should know that already. Who do people think blew all those holes through Walls? :p

The whole tan vs green thing is really getting to be overdone.

And it causes static alliances between " the usual suspects" that run tan and those that run green.

This further polarizes the community.

Personally, I much prefer allowing people to wear what they want and make the distinction of sides a command decision.

Armbands are not as" paintball" as you may think. It's a time honored practice in theaters where the factions look the same " think Russian winter". When everyone is wearing whites the only way to distinguish your side was colored arm bands.

You may not need to go that far, but something as simple as a flash of a particular color applied to some agreed location on the body .. Most of us are festooned with. Velcro real estate, this solution to friend vs foe issues should not be that hard to solve without forcing people to wear bad camo.

This is actually a very good idea. It's the same reason, while armies wear their uniforms, they also wear other identifiers, like flags. Green is green, multiple nations now use Multicam, what differentiates them is that flag. While a flag isn't really practical for airsoft, the idea is still very valid Brian, and I like it.

Absolutely. Command also has a very important role in avoiding friendly fire situations. I've found it very useful to keep track of where your forces are moving to, and inform anybody ahead of them that there will be friendly forces moving to/through/around their position, and from which direction. Or if possible, link up and move from there, to ensure that there is some familiarity with the disposition of forces.

Typically, in an airsoft game, CQB or outdoors, one force moves in one direction, the other will move in the opposite. Not necessarily always true, but if you've got somebody coming from one end of the field that you are not coming from, short of it being an advance unit RTB, it's likely that this contact is foe. Command can even suggest to his guys which direction the enemy is likely to be coming from, or from which direction the enemy WON'T be coming from. Situational awareness is important from the ground up.

Honestly, at a distance, camouflage colour doesn't really make a difference, it's the unnatural movement of things ahead of you that you key into first. If you know that it's probably enemy ahead of you, the advantage is knowing that you can shoot first.

Concepts of Forward line of Battle, and operational sectors can serve to reduce blue on blue, but you need a functioning C & C element, and people who will stay within the parameters set for them.. and good maps.. and good nav skills.

This is all the stuff that goes in to make a good player..A good command element and a good game.. it's far far more than just guns and gear and the "bad guys are over there"

A lot of players just run around looking for a fight.. and often find it .. with their own side.

The actual venue where the game happens is not by far the most important element of a solid event. the venue is just the canvas, it's up to the game designer, and commanders to put the paint on it, and refine the details.

Personally, I prefer a straight up woodland field, it's a broad canvas onto which practically anything may be put.

Germans actually put buttons on sleeves of their winter parkas during WW2 to attach specially made identifier arm bands. So it's not really "too paintball" like to have arm bands.

I agree 100%


I am looking at attending an OP where the indicator will be "helmets". One team will wear a helmet and the other team will not.

I'm looking forward to attending an op where someone can tell the difference between green and tan lol