Looking to buy a GBBR...ideas??
 

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about buying a GBBR, but I am stuck on which to buy. I get most of my stuff from Toronto Airsoft. I have looked into the WE and King Arms M4's. The only real issue I have is the 30 round mags, although King Arms has a 50 rounder.

Anyone own either of these brands in a gas gun? Can you give me the low down?? Also, can anyone tell me if you can find 50 round mags for the WE gas guns?

Thanks

you're buying a gas gun. low/realcap ammo is a feature, not an option. :P

I have 2 we gbbrs, an m4 cqbr and a scar, and so far I have been very happy. The only issues I have run into are leaky mags, but my generation 2 mags are holding strong. Definitely go for open bolt design if you choose a we gun. I was hesitant about the 30 round mags before I took the plunge but after playing a few times I find myself only loading about 40 rounds into aeg mags now ( it doesn't take long to learn how to conserve ammo!). We guns are the only gbbrs that I have any experience with but with researching common problems and knowing what to expect I would by another one if the wife allows it!

WE is coming out with a fixed dual AR magazine that will have an 80 round capacity:

http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/m...4-gas-magazine

Don't know too much about the KA GBBR platform, but it is very easy to get replacement and upgrade parts for the WE platforms, IMO that's a very important thing to keep in mind.

Awesome...Thanks

[QUOTE=uncle_benny12;1725539]WE is coming out with a fixed dual AR magazine that will have an 80 round capacity:

http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/m...4-gas-magazine

seemed more like 25 rounds to me

You can also take a spacer out of the bottom of WE mags and make them 38 rounders. There's a video of how to do it on youtube I saw the other day.

No one mentions the KJW M4? Seriously better than the WE imo...

OP check out KJ M4's, they are more reliable ootb and can be gotten new, all metal for around ~$400 with 2 mags. If you really want I can maybe do pros and cons of each later

KJW are good guns, just drop in a Cradle Velocity Reducer to adjust the FPS, and you're good to go. Mine has been running fine for 2 whole summers, I have 10 mags and none of them had leaked yet. There maybe less upgrade parts, that's because it doesn't need 'em :)

Hey thanks for the update on the KJW M4's. Where did you purchase yours?

The offer of the Pros and cons is appreciated.

We can't point out "where to find airsoft guns" outside restricted sections, but since you're AV I suggest you look up the AV retailers, or the classifieds !

Here's my pro and con for the KJW...Rommen will surely add more !!

Major Cons of the KJW are:
Thermold mags
-Some people dislike their style
-They don't fit in some M4 pouches

Pros:
-Game ready out of the box (just add a Cradle Velocity Reducer for FPS) and you're good to go for many thousand rounds

Three brands I would recommend:
(sort by alphabet)
KWA LM4
(+) Gas Efficiency
(+) US GI or P-Mag magazine
(+) Great kick
(+) Realistic finish
(+) No wobble handguard
(+) Steel internal (except trigger which is aluminum)
(+) FPS tuned to 380 @20-28C (Other two GBBR shoots about 450 at this temperature)
(-) Requires Bolt catch mod, or else bolt won't work in long run
(-) Hop-up max is 0.30g and a bit finiky. The actuator spring can wear out if your keep hop on for long periods
(-) Upper receiver rail wobbles
(-) Receiver is 3/16" shorter than actual AR-15
(-) Uncommon, relative rare in Canada compared to other system
KJW M4 Version I
(+) Gas Efficient
(+) Front set is compatible with AEG
(+) Reliable -despite using pot metal parts
(+) Bolt catch is a non-issue
(-) Handguard and stock wobbles quite a bit
(-) Metal Thermold magazine (thicker than GI magazine)
(-) Hopup max to 0.28g
(-) Weak recoil
(-) Glossy finish, unrealistic
WE M4 Open-Chamber
(+) Hardest kicking gun
(+) Lots of after market support
(+) Almost 100% compatiable with AR-15 (the ones are not are mainly due to legalities)
(+) Realistic finish, wicked awesome plastic external
(+) 20 & 30 US GI magazine available (30 rounds uses a shell, can be
fitted to customized AR-15 magazine ie PMAG)
(+) VSR type hopup
(+) Magazine compatible with other WE Open-Chamber system (L85, PDW, SCAR for example. AR-15 derivatives are also compatible)
(-) Not very gas efficient (vents liquid vapour out)
(-) Not the most reliable -compared to others
(-) Difficult to control FPS with tightbore barrel, aftermarket bucking running propane

I currently own a WE M14 and WE SCAR. I had a KWA M4 before. All three are great rifles, the KWA mags were better compared to the WE ones. Out of 8 WE mags I've owned, 7 had leaking issues lol. At least I got pretty handy with gasket maker ;) If you're looking for a big ass rifle go for the M14...I've never run into any issues with it, it's an absolute blast to shoot. Functionality wise, the SCAR is my favourite (besides the leaks). Definitely go for the open bolt, aesthetically looks much better and is more reliable.

For the WE there are now version 2 mags which use an internal design similar to the very leak-resistant KJW style. There are very good reports of these :)

Also with the KJW the v2 style bolt has proven to cause reliability issues. I'm not sure whether Cradle has his bolt styled after the v1 ready yet but if so, then it might be an idea to get that from the get go.

Inokatsu or Vipertech M4 :D

Yep Cradle released their bolt carrier, but it is designed from the V1 bolt...

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick but I'm guessing you're worried that Cradle's carrier is based on the V1 because it's an older design and not the latest. If so you needn't worry as the V1 was a better design than the V2 (Cradle made the carrier because KJ stopped making the v1).

From when I last was into KJ m4 the two versions of bolt were interchangable in all KJ upper receivers. However I read recently that there was a problem with an aftermarket charging handle sticking in the latest version of the upper. If you're going to go KJ best to check up on the latest news to see about compatibility.

Strictly speaking the most reliable GBBR out of the box would be the non-serialised KJ m4 with the revised v1 bolt that is long enough to prevent the buffer from hitting the buffer detent and cracking the lower receiver (resulting in stuttering full-auto).

There's also the issue of the piston cup cracking which can be resolved using the Cradle o-ring piston.

Revised V1 is definitely the best version, taking down to adjust the cradle needs to take only 1 screw out, while V2 is a PITA. Cradle had their design after the V1 but they did upgrade some weak points.

King Arms GBBR is a horrible out of box gun. The Mags will leak after 1 drop, resealing them is a major pain. IF HOW EVER! you do decide to get that one. you will have all the aftermarket back up in the world.

I would recommend going to airsoft depot. swapping out the KA BCG with a G&P BCG and buying G&P GBBR P-Mags. The Pmags are almost idoit proof and so easy to reseal.

If anything happens to the KA, there are always parts for it, triggers, sears, selectors, hammers, heck it even has a 3rd burst kit made by G&P for that system.

VFC G36, M4 or 416 =D

This is the third time I have heard about the VFC GBBR. They have them at Mach1 Airsoft. I know they only take VFC mags. What's the consensus on these bad boys.

Stupid question...Does G&P actually make a GBBR? I have their AEGs and love them.

Yes G&P does. They have the G&P WOC line.

VFC, Inokatsu, VIPER, G&P, Kingarms and AGM they all use the WA system, according to my experience, they can be good shooting platform if the internals didn't fail, however if there is anything went wrong with them, it's a fucking pain in the ass to fix, you might end up with a dead horse even with changed the parts you think that might be the reason of mulfunction. I sold my WA system GBBR long time ago. well, it's just imo, my pain in the ass doesn't have to be yours.

WE on the other hand is cheaper, gun or mag wise, compare to the Prowin 50 rds mags @ $100 a piece, $30 WE Mags are like tube water that you can get as many as you want. the gun itself are reliable, my WE M4 has been through 1 year of heavy gaming with no issues at all, not to mention the RS parts you can put on the WE gun make it even more reliable, buffer tube, upper reciever, front set, grip, stock...etc

@ T@NK

I have a Vipertech and had an AGM... I never had problems with them.

The vipertech is the most solid replica I ever had. And the inokatsus are considered the best GBBR guns.

WE might be cheaper BUT NOT BETTER.

And what u mean with a pain in the ass to fix? Price? It depends on the parts you buy.

I don't know much about Vipertech, maybe they have a improved design, maybe, all I know is they were the manufacturer of Inokatsu before the europeans bought off Ino. I have 2 friends own Inokatsu M4 ends up hang the Ino on their wall and game with WEs. AGM...hate to hurt the AGM users' feelings but it's totally garbage, period. According to OP's question, I'd say go for the WE.

I got into the GBBR world starting by a WA GBBR, I like the WA design coz they are very realistic, which is a very important part to airsoft gun. My old custom built WA GBBR with all the best parts in there, Prime and Inokatsu plus some RA-Techs , run well for the first 3 or 4 games, when it failed you just never find out why, I almost replaced all the parts in there that with those parts I can build another gun.

so like I said, IN MY OPINION, WE is a way better choice than WA for me.

Tank, I am the current owner of the gun, the choice of body you made resulted in all the problems, also the 2 holes you drill in the BCG did not help either. I swapped out the bolt to a G&P bolt, and swapped the body to a KA body. KA body does not wobble at all! doesnt even need magic pin. as for internals the AABB steel trigger set wasnt very functional.

I have to thank you tho. I learned alot from that GBBR, whats compatable with what and why. spent over 2k on a fun learning experience, and also spend countless hours annoying the crap outta Huang

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=145963

Here is a picture of your old receiver. I got pissed off and smashed it into my laptop. I did not lie about it lol.

I think that WA is better than WE, IF and only IF the internals are all G&P. there is a reason why they are WESTERN ARMS OFFICAL CUSTOM!.

I swapped out parts one by one and problems left, one by one

Secondly, G&P Pmags go for 50$, hold 39 shots and are more gas efficent than Pro wins, they also take 5 minutes to reseal

I respect your stance of 'WA is better than WE' while I am still holding mine.

Ps: the gun was tested through 5 mags with no issues in Benny's store before I sold it, 1 month later the buyer came back to me with a striped spring in the BCG and heavy wear on the bolt and metal body, he wanted me to fix it so he can sell it to the other buyer (which I assume would be you?) the 2 holes I drilled on the bolt carrier didn't effect the function of the gun as it worked perfectly before I sold it, my guess is the metal body might had some 'shape shift' by the impact of the steel BCG if it's like you mentioned. anyway, I am done with the WA guns and good luck to you. btw, the trigger group is not AABB.

I have a WE M4 CQBR (gas blowback), I like it alot. I have had it for a month and used it quite often (just target shooting) and it has given me no troubles. Great aim and feel too. Only complaint I have is the position of fire selector but that is not a big deal for me.

Position of the fire selector is 1:1 to real steel. :|

What do you guys mean when referring to an open bolt? I dont see any other kind when looking for Gas guns...

It pertains to WE only they have their newer open bolt design which works similar to any other GBB, fires from the closed bolt but it's open when you rack the bolt back. WE's older design was the CLOSED bolt system which used a brass tube so when you locked the bolt back all you could see was this hideous brass tube where there should be nothing, Was a Great design, just wasn't aesthetically pleasing which is a BIG selling point in airsoft.

Closed bolt pics: (not owned by myself)
http://s551.beta.photobucket.com/use..._open.jpg.html
http://s551.beta.photobucket.com/use...op_up.jpg.html

Open bolt term in airsoft is chinglish
They used a literal translation, the correct translation is open-chamber (which is what being labelled on the box now)



//sorry for odd autocorrect words by my phone//

IIRC Closed chamber was design so the WE gets pass through US customs?

G&P and KA GBBRS are passes US borders without prob.
WE modelled itself after the Escort system, just made it gas in mag. (from what I've heard)

No, Close chamber aka AWSS is a design adapted from AFC which is employ is numerous blow-back classic airsoft gun (sun project, shoei, Daytonagun, escort etc)
US custom actually seized AWSS m4 shipment that made ATF realized they made a fool of themselves 3 months later.

Seeing as you can NOT import WE AWSS into the USA.....