Flagswipe, London, Ontario
 

Hello All,

My name is Keith Held and I am one of the Managers here at Flagswipe in London, ON. Some of you may know me and some will not. I'd like to say Hello and Cheers, I just joined the Forums today.

Some of you may also know that Mr. Metcalfe put on a big game at the Flagswipe Outdoor field and we think it went very well. Over the last year or two we've been slowly expanding the Airsoft portion of our business. We hope to continue to grow this year. We'll be doing more Big Games, Scrim Days, and some very exciting special events. We've already started an Airsoft Open Play Session every week on Friday Nights.

I'm waiting to get Age Verified :) but then you should see me on here more. Till then Greetings and Salutations, and thanks for letting me be a part of the community. If there's anything I can do for you, don't hesitate to write-

shop@flagswipepaintball.com

Cheers !

Love the feild

Hello guys good to see you on the forum. One question though, well you be letting us use our own bb's or do they have to be bought that day at the field? I ask because the other field in London runs this way and they dont have bbbastards ( best brand ever!). Thanks for the help and, I cant wait to play some games at your field!

Hey,
We'd like to do BYOBB's (Bio Only) as well as our usual Field BB Only, much like we do for paintball. Also, like paintball, we're going to be looking at a Field "Branded" BB which you can buy, take home, and then bring back at your leisure.
Does anybody do BYOBB Big Games, with lots of players and everyone shooting their own Bio BB's?

I've also just realized this should have been in the " Introduction Thread: Post your hello's here not somewhere else." Sorry Mods and Admins !!

Just FYI - unlike paintball where ammo is ammo, people tend to be extremely picky about the brands and weights of BBs they put in their gun. When a single substandard BB can blow someone's high end mechbox away to the tune of a couple of hundred dollars, it's hard to impose a "field ammo only" rule where some rebranded mystery brand is being sold. Just something you should be keeping in mind as you go forward in this business, because in some cases, people simply won't play if they're forced to use a type of ammo they're unsure of.

+1!

It seems you can't go wrong if you stick to BB Bastards or King Arms BBs :D

some guns and magazines are finicky, players tend to try ammo brands until they find the right brand, so while bastards are extremely reliable, there might be a few players out there that have a technical need to use a certain brand, but that's pretty rare.

In my case, I won't use anything but Bastards or Madbull Precision (non-Bio). They're the only ones that haven't caused either jams or damages to my guns. While I haven't tried Bio Bastards, I've never used another brand of bio BB that hasn't caused issues or damage. I simply refuse to use ammo that will potentially damage my guns. You'll find many airsofters in the same situation. Unlike paintball, by restricting ammo type, you also restrict your client base significantly when it comes to airsoft.

Honestly, if that's what I was being forced to use to play at a certain field, I simply wouldn't play at that field (it happens more often than you may think). I value the high dollar investment I have in my guns far more than a new venue to play at. You'll find the expensive "field ammo" model that's been the mainstay of sucking money out of paintballers is not a model that works or is accepted by the airsoft community. You're better off charging higher field fees and letting people bring their own ammo they're comfortable using.

If you insist on bio BBs, then make that a stipulation. Perhaps have some quality bio BBs (like Bastards) available on field at normal (not inflated) prices for people that don't have any. Then you can be a retailer for a known and trusted brand and not have to worry about policing people for "field BBs only".

Personally this doesn't affect me. I'm out of your area and the likelihood I'll ever play on your field is slim to nil. But I support the growing sport, and I'm glad to see more paintball fields getting in on the growing popularity of airsoft. But keep in mind that this is already a well-established sport with standards and practices already in place. If you try to force the "paintball model" on people because of your own inexperience with airsoft (trust us, they're 2 very different animals with a very different clientele), things probably won't work out as well as they could.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you can prosper while bringing London-area players a new venue to play at.

I'd rather pay a bit more in field fees to make up for your losses in BB's than be forced to use any BB (I don't know what PB entrance fees are but $15-20 sounds reasonable for something I'd pay). Hell I would even do field work and build days for free if you adopt a BYOBB policy for airsofters. One thing you'll notice with us (depends how you go about your business) is that we don't tend to have as many "electro toting agg muppets" and I feel there is a lot of camaraderie and people just looking to have a fun time compared to paintball. Make the "real" airsofters feel welcome and support their growth and you should be able to run a successful side business (because doing an airsoft only field is generally a losing game unless you do something cool and unique like "The Mall" in Reading, UK or Xtreme Tactics in Manitoba). Also please make sure you run a tight ship or your airsoft games can and will turn into a gong show, it's happened a few times before that I know of when experienced field marshals are busy and newer field marshals try to fill in their place (safety briefing takes too long, games not tailored to the people showing up or numbers showing up, etc.).

Also my guns are finicky as well. My pistol will only accept certain brands with certain tolerances or it will chop, jam, and feed like shit (as well as damage parts that although are cheap to replace still take time and is consistent with the damage since it's a result of the chopping/jamming).

Can't really go wrong with making BBBastard your field BB, HOWEVER there is a supply issue at the moment (from the release by Scarecrow (who I trust) it's through no fault of his own and although may sound like a conspiracy theory meddling from bigger players in the BB market) and if you stick to one brand you may be crippled if things happen again.

The other brand you should think about carrying are Green Devil (love these as well as the UK players that I know, plus they're Bio BB's and actually feed in PTW's (super finicky with ammo or it will chop BB's and force them out of the barrel like it's confetti)). Do your due diligence and look for more reports of their performance. "The Bent Barrel Gun Doctor" is the business you'll probably want to talk to regarding carrying these.

Other brands that I like and think are OK (but may or may not be finicky) off the top of my head are: Excel, Guarder, Madbull, and Airsoft Elite. And a new brand that I've been approached to test and review called Calibre Six (so far results are awesome and IMO almost gives BBB a run for their money if they can put more money into R&D).

Our local field (Ground Zero Paintball) charges $20 for field fees and we bring our own BBs. They have an awesome facility with lots of different fields. It's great and IMO totally worth the admission price. And they have no restrictions on using bio BBs. The only ammo prohibited is silica BBs.

Ground Zero Paintball worked with our local community leaders in establishing the rules, practices and guidelines for airsoft. They recognized the need we had, admitted not knowing jack-shit about it (<- that right there was a HUGE step), and rather than trying to force paintball rules and practices upon the airsoft community, they worked with us to learn and grow to make the experience as good as possible. As a result, our local airsoft games went from 10 man games 2 years ago to regular 25+ member games the last 2 years. It's been awesome. GZ makes good money 'on the side' from their paintball business, the players are happy, and everyone wins.

The last local paintball field to allow airsoft quickly lost all its airsoft players once they started imposing paintball rules on us. They let us play a couple of times, then started imposing their paintball rules and practices on us. They had no interest in hearing what airsoft was about. To them, it was just like paintball, but different gear. They were inflexible, unwilling to talk or compromise, and didn't care what anyone had to say. They knew it all, declared themselves experts on the subject, it was their field, and that was that. That didn't work out so well for them...

Field BBs

most everyone will shoot BBBastard products without complaint..

if you are insisting on Field supplied bbs .. they have to be assured to be premium quality or this criteria will keep people away from your field.

Contact Renegade on this forum, he is your local BBBastard corporate rep

+1 for Bastards.

It would be prudent to have BBs available for sale anyways. And many games/fields have a "bio only" policy. Highest quality bios I have used, are in fact bastards. Green Devils are also a solid bio BB.

It is very true however, that players are picky about the BBs they use, and so are certain guns.

I'd say it rests more with the guns than the players themselves. Most are happy to shoot anything that they know works. It's the fact that a lot of BBs don't play well with tightbore barrels, certain custom mods, or with PTWs. The players aren't being picky. They're just being careful to protect their investment. No one wants to use a BB that will jam up and blow their expensive, upgraded mechbox internals to bits.

Seriously, if I show up somewhere and I'm told "You have to use our mystery brand BBs to play here.", I'll be walking away and not playing. I have several "finicky" guns that will only run on Bastards or Madbull Precision. Any other BB I've fed them so far (KSC, Velocity Arms, Airsoft Elite) has resulted in feed issues, jams and / or damage.

So if a player knows that a particular BB works without issue, they will generally use that all the time. And people swear by BB Bastards because they consistently function trouble-free in all guns. I've heard a lot of issues people have with different BB brands, but have yet to hear a single complaint about BB Bastard's product not functioning in someone's gun.

Well, this is a lot of great info, thank you all for your input.
To be clear, we have no firm policies in place yet, we're just learning as we go along. Thank you again for your help with this.
It seems that the resounding opinion is that BYOBB (Bio BB's Only) is the way to go, charge more admission, let folks bring their own BBs. My question is do you think we could get away with a branded Field BB if we went with a BBBastard, Madbull, or King Arms product as our Branded BB?

Crunchmeister, I called Ground Zero to talk with them a bit. Do you know what they charge for their 25+ person Member Days? Is it still just the $20 per person and BYOBB?

Thank you again for all the opinions and thoughts. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm new to this sport and would like to make sure we do a good job.

Cheers,

Well if you still did the field bb's only thing and your field brands included bastards then i believe you would be in the clear. One last question, right now admission is $10 a game right?

edit: also what are your current brand of bb's?

Huge +1 for BYOBB.
I tend to buy my BB's in bulk as it's easier to just have a stock pile (Y'know, in case of Zombies)

I'd gladly pay a bit extra for this, especially at your awesome field!

If you guys can continue to allow Ballistic goggles and the like as you did for OP November Alpha, that is also a huge bonus as well.
I'm sure there has to be some conditions as to what goggles and perhaps when (No ballers on the field or the like) but hey, if the option is there.. super!

Flag Raiders in Kitchener has run Airsoft games for awhile, Joe has been great to us always. He just might be somebody you also wish to contact about it.

Really excited for you guys to get back into the scene. You have always been very respecting and friendly in my old PB days.
Cheers to more great times guys!

(P.S I'm free mostly next week and can stop by the shop to AV you if you like, PM me and we can talk :))

My only question is what is the age limit for your normal games op november alpha was 18+ will that be the case for all games?

Kyle,
Yes, $10 is the Admission. And our current BB selection is King Arms and Madbulls, both in .20g and .25g.

Kaos,
Thanks for the kind words :) Yes, we will have to do paintball goggles when there are paintballers on the field but that rule could change for a number of reasons- if the paintballers are on the XBall field, you'll have the forest to yourself, etc. Most importantly, our Airsoft Sessions are currently Airsoft Exclusive.

Mr.Inked,
They are all 18+ and I don't see that changing any time soon. No offense to anyone younger than 18 but I think for now we're are going to concentrate on the more mature crowd. I really do not want to sell young kids high end super realistic Airsoft guns.

If you want to advertise on ASC, you'll need to pay for a retailer account.

field usually charge in the range from 15-30 plus tax, I have played at this place twice and will gladly pay 30 its a well laid out field with lots of options. can easily hold 100+ players.

And maybe im alone in this, but if you're going to make people buy field bbs, have some heavier weights available... I only use .28 and .3 in my ptw, so forcing me to buy and use .25 is not ideal. Byobb is obviously preferred, but if field bbs are a must, the option of .28 or .3 would be greatly appreciated.

Also, i would be thrilled to start seeing some saturday or Sunday games going on. it's a bit of a long drive for me to just play s coupe of hours on a Friday night.

Since you are still learning; here's a free win-win business scenario:

Host games that allow bring your own ammo AND provide BB Bastard and other TOP QUALITY brands in your proshop.

Since most Airsofters are extreamly lazy and rushed in life they will leave it until last minute to load up on pre game supplies; having that as a convenience will be one last thing to deal with, and one more thing to make your venue a one-stop shop for getting a player ON THE FIELD. If things are still looking good, consider rentals and rental packages.

Same proven business concepts, just variations on the theme. Don't spread yourself too thinly - it will seem too ambitious and become overwhelming and full of drama. Set the stage and enjoy the show. Your product is enjoyment, and your value is your accomodation and convenience. What more could an Airsofter ask for?

Just for clarification;
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...ental-Play.jpg

Does the disclaimer at the bottom assume your organization would host/support Airsoft games with children over the age of 10 years?

Not by any means!
+1 to this as well.

I'm with everyone else that voted BYOBB. I've shot quite a few brands in my guns and have only found two that actually work well with the setups I run. If you don't have those as a "Field BB" and don't let me bring my own, quite simply I won't play there.

The field looks great, I had planned on attending that game hosted there not too long ago, but hadn't ordered the proper eyewear in time.
However I'm with everyone else on the BYOBB thing. And a personal thing for me at least, the allowing of anyone ages 10 and up is basically the kill for me, I likely would never make the drive to participate in a game with children.

Games will be 18+ as Keith stated in a previous post.

In that case, other than the byobb I can definitely see making the ride up with a few guys for this field.

This field is GREAT. Would like to see more numbers out (even though they are good to begin with). Maybe the more out the less entry will be. So get out there!!!!


Since I NEVER would go through a 3600rd bag of BBs, Bring your own Bios like everyone else is saying is prime. Everyone has personal preferences so as long as they break down who cares really.

Hello All,

BYOBB is King, hearing you loud and clear. I would expect we will keep our Friday Night Program Field BBs (It's KA Bio's right now) and try to run Events where we offer BYOBB. But I will definitely let you know as we make firm decisions.
For w1lp33's question about Saturdays and Sundays... I don't know. If we can find a day when there's not a BUNCH of paintball, that would work. But we usually run a lot of ballers on the weekend and I would have to see a viable reason to turn that business away if we were going to go to Airsoft instead. :( Today is a very slow Saturday at about 100 Paintballers, Full admission, Field paint only.

Finally for Poncho, I was surprised to see this flier but it may have been one of our early productions. You can see if you go to the forums, the rules are listed here-
http://www.flagswipepaintball.com/fo...howtopic=25055
(though they may change)
And this is the Ad on our site-
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...Firefights.jpg

Either way, I will look into it and let you know ASAP.
Again, thanks for all your input guys, BYOBB has a lot of +1's lol.

Cheers,

It isn't viable for indoor but at outdoor fields we usually just share the field with paintballers and move to different area if they're playing somewhere.

We understand that ballers are the bread and butter and main source of income for PB fields and we usually have no problems sharing the field since for us it's a privilege to play at a field when PB owners don't have to let us (which is why we're also strict on safety and all that, since if there's an incident; instead of wanting to make extra side income for the business most owners would rather not have their liability/indemnity insurance pulled by their underwriter).

Here in Vancouver we have organized a few games at an indoor venue, basically it's weekends from like 8:00 to Noon and entrance is $15 IIRC. Week days after work is an alright time as well. In order to attract an 18+ crowd you'll have to pretty much do it after work ends (after 5-ish like your flyer) since during daytime all you're going to get are minors (which isn't the end of the world but I implore you to try airsoft out with a generally more mature 18+ crowd first before allowing accompanied minors, paperwork is less messy if something does happen and the more mature crowd hopefully has less retards).

Thanks for the clarification Keith - I checked out the site to see what the field looked like and found that link from the main page.