Is suppressing fire, "blind fire"?
 

Looking at most rulesets for the majority of games posted here I see a rule that forbids "blind fire"

does this mean that suppressing fire laid in to the position of enemy designed to keep their heads down is not allowed?

Do you need to be able to see a target to fire at it? Is it ok to fire into the area known to harbour targets, even if at that particular moment you can't "see" them?

I wonder this.. because it is difficult to win a firefight if you are not allowed to have one.

As in like, putting your arms around a corner with your weapon, not seeing what is there, and firing. Could be potentially dangerous because someone could be like, 2cm away from the tip of your gun.

blindfire refers to firing while not looking where you are shooting, or not looking down the sights. Suppresive fire is shooting in the area where the enemy is, but you must be looking down the sights or aiming where you are shooting. Hard for me to put in words, so here's a picture of blindfiring:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Thumpe.../blindfire.jpg

Notice the player holding the gun above his head and just firing away.

blind fire refers to you for instance crouching behind a barricade/shelter, then raising your rifle over it and firing without looking at anything. Same goes for firing thru holes in said barricade/shelter without looking.

Suppressive fire is completely allowed, it just means you'lll run thru ammo.

edit * man like 3 peeps beat me to it lol

Nice sample picture, perfect lol.

At our local indoor place, "blind fire" is when you stick only your weapon around a corner, in a window, etc. They use the rule that you must be able to see a target to engage it.

Too many people already beat me to it. What they said.

Just consider Blind firing as not being able to see where you're bullets/bbs are hitting. It's a rule for safety and to provent injuries.

OK, good
 

That clears up what is considered "blind fire"

Not looking where you are shooting.

very good, this is what I presumed... but in order to not presume anything,

I thought I would ask

ive been hurt good by blind fire in a CQB game, damn it hurt

CornerShot Anybody ;)

http://www.defense-update.com/images...t-silencer.jpg

:lol: great pic

wow...looks kinda like my....wait...nevermind ;)

Like it has been said above, blindfiring is very different then supressing fire. Supressing fire is very necessary so come out on top in a firefight. Heck you'd be suprised how many people duck for cover when you're in a firefight and you're out of ammo, but you shoot a few blanks while reloading. Sometimes you won't even need to be pointing anywhere near them and they'll hit the ground.

hmm.... about that pic... what if he can see what he's shooting at through a hole in the bunker?

Even if he can it's still very gay and I'd hope someone would smack me if I did that in a game.

Airsoft...caught on film. great pic

That was a total paintball move if I've ever seen one.

It really depends on who you're playing with.
At public games with hicaps, blind fire is just a bad scene, because plenty of people could literally dump thousands of rounds out.
If it's a private game, and we're not each carrying a platoon's worth of ammo, then I personally don't mind it. There is still a safety issue if someone pokes a gun around a corner unknowingly into someone's face (and it does get quite CQ sometimes), but if you play with people you know and trust, even that's not a big deal.

However, I beleive you can only really entertain the idea at private games of some kind. Publically, for safety reasons, it's out of the question. There are already plenty of players how can't restrain themselves under regular circumstances (dumping a mag into an opponent at point blank), that permitting blind fire would just be a disaster.

I might be repeating what's in the thread, just my 2 cents.

hmm... i was doing something like that once... but i had the gun about 15 cm above my head a pretty clear view of where my BBs were going... and sure as hell there was no one on the other side to be shot point blank.

Which brings us to firing from the hip. You're defo not looking through your sights on that one.

Maybe not, but at least you can see where they are hitting.

I love tearing bushes apart when firing from the hip. But I know where the bbs are going.

As long as the weapon is being aimed and under control I say go for it.

I always figured blind fire being shooting around a corner without taking yourself around said corner... definately a perfect setup for serious accidents...

Shooting above bunkers like in the first picture is also a bit dangerous and still goes into my blind fire category, as someone might just have crawled up to there and stand up to surprise you (sadly, with an upgraded rifle cranking BB's up his face to no end)


As for shooting without using the sights, that's just a different way to handle your weapon, if you can aim well without using the sights, good for you. At best, it gives more survival chances to the ennemy ;)

I've shot from the hip alot back in the days, considering I could not use the sights of my rifle, but I always kept my eyes on where my gun was pointed when the trigger was being pulled. I also noticed that my kill/BB ratio went way up once I got a scope mount and a low-mag scope on the rifle.
Using black BB's sure didn't help me track down their flight paths, but it sure kept the targets from dodging the BB's!

What about shooting into dense bush where you know the target is there but you can't see the target.

It's a paintball gun!

It'd be funny to try and fire a real m4 like that lol the recol would just be laughing at you.

In CQB I can see it being an issue...but I don't see it as a hazard in an outdoor game. If they want to waste ammo....fine....

We've no blind fire rule...but as we don't play CQB I guess that would be why.....

That guy is firering Insurgent style.
Unefectife waisting or ammo.

I do it all the time. It keeps their heads down while you move around or cover for your teammate to move into a flanking position. Like I said eariler, lots of people become very timid/tense when playing airsoft and even the sound of a gun shooting anywhere near them makes them freeze and become easy targets.

As long as the bushes are more than 15ft away, I dont see why this would be a problem either.
You are at a safe distance and can see where your shots are going, thus I wouldnt call it blind fire.

I usually qualify blindfire in my briefings as when you are not 'eyes on' where you intend for your bbs to travel - as a result you cannot judge the safety of where your bbs are travelling, and that is why its a bad idea.

Suppressing fire is fire with intention, and you have eyes on the area you are suppressing.

Some people take suppressing fire and make a hose out of it. There is a line somewhere between suppressing and hosing. One players suppressive fire is another player's hose, so its subjective.

The BB Bastard in me likes hosing, its good for business and very profitable. The milsimer in me hates it because it just spoils the simulation - its like everyone running around with a vulcan cannon on their backs with an unlimited ammo supply.

To some degree because bbs can travel poorly making aiming with iron sights or other sights inaccurate, people can use the bb stream to track in on a target - this is a substitute for aiming. Again, most look upon a continuous stream of bbs as a bad thing (again, hosing).

Its easy to become target fixated to the point where you do this without thinking. I consciously try to limit my rounds to 3 to 5 round bursts in serious games. If its a giggles and shits game with my friends, its another story.

Sorry, this is a digression but its all along the same topic line.

Suppressive Fire: Firing rounds down on the enemy's position in order to negate the enemy the possibility of firing upon friendly troops. Thus allowing the section to win the firefight.

That's what suppressive fire is in my own words. I'm a member of the Canadian Forces (infantry), so this is my bread and butter.

Blind fire is how you see most incompetent riflemen/gunners fire their weapons, from either ill-training or ignorance of percision. You also see this in most (older) hollywood movies. Like the firing-from-the-hip bullshit, which can very well be consider blind firing since you have no real proper aim other than your body's direction.

Thanks to everyone
 

who have replied,

mostly what I was looking for was what Airsoft players considered the distinction was between blind fire and suppressing fire.

so Just to put brackets on things here.

Blind fire, when you can not see where your rounds are going.. and /or have not aimed the fire

Suppressing fire, when the fire is aimed at a particular area in view with the desire to suppress the action and mobility of the parties under fire.

on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?

As long as you were looking down your gun and aiming.

uh-huh
and if someone knows can tell the difference between dry firing and normal firing you're toast :mrgreen:

ah... would that work with a real gun?

I don't think so... so in my opinion that would be cheating

Depends on the host, just ask them ahead of time, most hosts don't care about it, others do.

All it takes is an experienced player to differentiate...it's sorta like when the Garand goes "ping!". You're sorta telling the other guy - hey I'm outta ammo for my primary! :P

Although in your case if you're not looking, you shouldn't be firing the gun at anywhere...

On the topic of blindfire, yes, it is the responsibility of the shooter to take into consideration where theyre firing, but IMHO it is also partly the responsiblity of the foe to not "spook" the blindfirer in question. (hope youre with me.)

this happened at one of our games which resulted in a pointblank BB lip...gorey i know.

person A is shooting behind cover, ducks back.

person B on opposite team from person A runs up adjacent to person A and hides behind the same cover on opposite side.

person A and person B both unveil themselves at the same time, person A being spooked unloads BB death on person B.

Person A is at fault IMO, BUT! There could have been a different outcome if person B used more of their perception to judge..hey, theres someone there, let's NOT put my face 4 inches infront of his sights and give him a heart attack

here is a movie i have uploaded to my dinky FTP to give u a look at what i mean...

(this is a short clip someone took(think it was dman) in the 'city' at our panther field. - it could have been gruesome if the guy didnt turn around and look teh other way)

http://members.shaw.ca/silent_lemon3/cqb02.wmv

If I were the host i'd probably put that under blind-fire. Mainly because even though you're reloading there is a possiblity that there are a few BBs still floating inside your gun and if you pop off a few shots while your not looking it is blind-fire. The chances are slim but if you keep doing it it will happen sooner or later.

if you were out in the middle of a field shooting across at the guy...id allow it, theres no interferance inbetween you and your target for other "unexpected" targets to pop up and get inadvertantly nailed in the face when you didnt mean to shoot them. IF that is the case, then OK, sounds fine to me. If there is a lot of interferance, barrels, bushes, trees, ditches, buildings whatnot, well, then more care is needed, and lining up your sights is the best and definately the most responsible approach.

Have to admit I've blind fired in an outdoor scenario in just that manner. I suppose it would be reasonable to "blind fire" in that manner even with a full mag if it were obvious that there were no targets or potential targets within the minimum range limits for the guns in question. At least I've thought so enough to do it a few times.



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That isn't really the case though. Considering how it's blind fire and he is also reloading at the same time, the chances of him hitting the intended target are slim to none. Which means he could end up shooting someone he didn't even know was in the general area.

It's all just speculation but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

This is a prime example of why you should never have your finger resting on your trigger, Period. Your index should always be on the side so you can process maybe a few thoughts through your brain before you start shooting. I think that should be a rule, because I must say, I have NEVER been hit by blind fire, BUT I have been hit in the face neck ears hands you name it from players that get scared and let off 30 rounds at 10 feet. Having a rule like this would also save a lot of friendly fire aswell, think about it.

EDIT: Also, there is a fine line between concern for safety, and complaining;) ...