Rifleman's Primary - What would you recommend??
 

okay, so i just got bored of my newly built ICS M4 - CQBR. :( after upgrading it, i was achieving accuracy of man sized targets, at a measured distance of 260ft. this was achieved with .25g bbs on semi auto with a hit miss ratio of 8/10, in an open field in which the distance was measured out. this was only possible using Mettle Tech bb's as the Madbull bb's have a slightly smaller diameter of .02mm ..doesn't sound like much, but when your using a 6.01mm (285mm long) barrel it does effect accuracy a LOT! - this was my first build, if you really want to call it that lol

Primarily i use semi or short burst of 3-8 shots mostly at ranges beyond 75ft. i dont really care to much about ROF as i have a second AEG for that *evil grin* (TM MP5k w/ 11.1). so basically im looking for something to replace my ics m4 with. so far both the KJW Ruger 10/22 & the G&G M14 (short version s.o.c.?) have caught my eye.

are there any other good base guns to make a "rifleman's gun" out of? - its kind of a contradiction but it has to be fairly short. - im not sold on the whole barrel length thing, as it seems to me to be more important on real steel then airsoft. upgraded AEP anyone?

when i think of the two guns ive been looking at this is what comes to mind:

KJW Ruger 10/22:
-Gas Powered - cool down effect in winter :( (anyone know how bad this is on the 10/22?)
-Semi Auto only :l
-I love M4 accessories - especially Magpul - so this is a plus as i can still use my preexisting accessories :)
-Less Money :)
-doesnt have the plasticky parst like the top thing that the M14 has :)
-its unique :)

G&G M14 SBR (or other brand??)
-Electric :)
-proprietary gear box :(
-Parts of the body seem kinda cheap
-full auto capability :)
-more money :(
-more upgradeable? :)
-more reliable? :)
I would love to get my hands on a marui, but i fear the price of a marui over the G&G might be more then i want to know.


any other thoughts that i should consider??
which one would yield best accuracy results?

basically im asking for your guy's input on which is a better "riflemans" gun, and is it possible to achieve my accuracy goals of 260ft with either of these two guns. Any & all thoughts or ideas are welcome, Thanks in advance!

Yoyit2

Just a warning, if you get a gas blowback gun, you will have to disassemble it to clean and lubricate the internals a lot; if you are not willing to do that, buy an AEG. The magazines are small and expensive. Also KJW rifles have stock velocities, which are too high to bring to most fields, unless you are using them as a sniper.

What exactly do you mean by "rifleman's gun". Is this a gun that would be more DMR-esque (i.e. accurate and semiautomatic)?

The KJ 10/22 is an excellent DMR rifle. The last time I checked, no NPAS exists so you'll run into trouble on hot summer days. It's also quite handy and maneuverable, you might find that an M14 is awkward.

If you have the money, a fully upgraded WE M14 with NPAS is perhaps the ultimate DMR weapon. I ran out of money to upgrade mine in the middle of the school year, but now that I'm working, I'm seriously considering picking one up again.

Avoid G&G M14s. If you want an AEG for year-round play, a TM M14 or a G&P SR-25 is the way to go.


All things considered, I would recommend you go for the KJ 10/22. For $399 retail you can't go wrong.

well TBH im not to worried about upgrade price. yes it will be a DMR.. but full auto capability would be a bonus. i dont know if im really wanting to go for a WE m14 as it is gas... which wont really help me in the winter :( from what i understand - dont quote me here - is that the 10/22 is not to bad for winter use. sr25 are nice, but to long for me. i have a very mixed style of play.. Run and gun - hence the mp5k w/11.1 - as well as rifleman. so... if ive got my rifle, and i feel the need to rush, then its WAY easier if its short and compact.

as far as velocity goes its going to have to be a max of 400fps. so hopefully RA-Tech will have a npas soon :P

my concern with TM m14 is how hard its going to be to buy one... and how expensive :S i dont have thousands to spend lol.

in general im kinda weary on GBB(R) as ive had some bad experiences with them. so far the only good ones ive ever owned have been TM Glocks. From what ive read the 10/22 is a viable option, but.... everything else just makes me scared lol

The 10/22 is a naildriver. It is a great gun and very simple mechanicaly however the FPS is very high and no NPAS as of yet. As for cool down its great on gas untill you rapid fire it, if you were to try to fire off the full mag quickly you will find you run a high risk of venting, however double taps and the like are fine.

Mags for it are rather inexpensive but finding mag pouches is a pain. Iv found Condors double M4 mag pouches work well but you need magpuls for the mags.

Once the NPAS comes out its gonna be a great gun for all game types.

I just saw this, I know its not a TM but...http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=124536

Personally I would go with a TM Socom M14 if your worried about the length of the gun and with your game play style.

arg! to many choices lol :(

im liking the idea of the 10/22 as i can fit my Magpul stuff on it - off of my m4.

i wonder if there is anyway to make a magwell adapter which would except mp5 mags yet allow a line for HPA :P that way you could use CHEAP aeg mags all year round :P

if i went with the m14 i would absolutely use a 7.4v lipo (as i run them in everything ive got lol). anyone have some input on the gear boxes? v.7 right? how are they for sourcing parts/reliability? ive held a G&G M14, but how is the external feel compared to the Marui m14?

whats wrong with the G&G m14 compared to the marui m14?

Any AEG M14 but a marui is a complete piece of shit.

G&G and CA have their own designs that are different htan the marui design. That means you've got no aftermarket parts.

You shouldn't even be considering the G&G.

I agree with Amos. G&G are great guns, but not for what you are looking for. TM is good but if you are looking for a gas rifle, WE M14 is actually not bad at all. Deadly accurate from my experience, and with the EBR stock, should you decide to get one, you will have one scary looking gun. I don't know about the 10/22 so I wont comment on it, but from what I have heard, it's not a bad gun.

im not really "looking" for a GBB(R) but if there is a good one ill consider it. that being said i am looking for a year round gun. which is going to make GBB(R) difficult. the WE m14 looks sweet in wood, but its the full length barrel :( also, i love WE guns for there build quality, but... from my experience, they are PIGS on gas!!

yeah i am completely sold on anything marui :D dont get me started on my collection lol. ive also had good experiences with G&G so i was curious about their M14. as of now, i will cross the G&G version off my list.

i was looking through available parts for the TM m14 and it does seem to be a sweet platform! im just worried about the initial cost of buying it :S one other thing is that, i have noticed with EVERY Marui AEG i have held, is that they seem really "creaky" and loose. I like my guns to be sturdy and rugged. how is the TM m14 in this aspect?

kjw 10/22 - $400
mags - $27ish landed
Barrel - $50ish landed
externals - already acquired.

TM M14 (Socom) - $800+?
Mags (mid) - $20-$30 landed
Barrel - $70ish landed
Internals - $200+
Lipo - $25ish +

yikes! :S from this aspect, the 10/22 is looking like a viable option!

but before price comes performance! ugh! i wish i could get a direct comparison :(

If you wanted to invest a bit, you could always go the M16 route and mod it into a MK12 Mod 0... You could likely do that for about the cost of the TM M14 and still come out on top with a really good gun.

i do currently have a G&G max M16 with systema internals, which is getting VERY close in performance to my ICS M4. idk, its not really my type of gun - the m16 - i actually regret buying it. not that its a bad gun, not at all, its awesome! its just not for my game style. - its to long :(

for that reason, i use my M4 more often, as they are basically the same gun, just one has a shorter barrel.

For a Rifleman's primary, I would recommend using a Rifle :D

Ya, that's what stopped me from buying one as well, was the length of the gun.

If you are looking for a M14, I would say the TM or the WE are your best bets. Some people would likely disagree with me on that, but to each their own. Then you just have to decide if you are gonna run gas or electric.

Gas is ok if you run C02, depending on where you live green gas just wont do the job. Another thing is this... Are there C02 mags available for the WE M14 yet? Also, are you willing to put the time into maintaining a gas rifle?

Electric guns have the advantage of being considerably quieter, and much lower maintenance, than gas guns as well.

I guess in the end it all depends on what works best for you and what you are gonna be more happy with.

:p

haha lmao ^

well i think the WE is out of the picture for me. im not really looking for a gas gun. but that 10/22 just looks so fine! i really wish someone could give me some more input on it.

the TM M14 is sweet, im just kinda scared of the v.7 gear box. ive worked on LOTS of v.2 and they are a breeze. i HATE working on v.3 - good gearboxes just a pain though ..cant seem to master the trigger assembly. hows the v.7 to work on?

I haven't broke the cherry on my box yet but my neighbour has one and he says its MUCH better to work on, much easier.

good to know :D thanks! hows the accuracy out of the box? what kind of range? yeah, i guess i could go look for a review :( ..but that'd be to easy lol

Once you get it dialed in it is deadly accurate. I can hit a man size target fairly accurately at 100 feet with just a standard sight. I did find the hop to be a bit picky, but once the gun is broken in it settles down alot. There are lots of videos around, check them out, you will like what you see :)

You know, I have also heard some good things about the Echo1 M14 as well. Might be something to consider if you are looking to save a bit and still get a good gun.

My 22 is stock internally and i was hitting a tree at 130ft using 25s without even touching my hopup yet. mags are going to run you more around 32each but still not bad. It will except most AR parts including the pistol grip but only if its the same shape as teh stock one, i have the moe grip on mine but i could only mount it if i used the one sized parts.

gun overall is a great buy and well worth the money, just a lil too hot for most games

Is there any word when a NPAS will be available for the 10/22?

I ordered a kjw 10-22 with the intention of putting the m1a1 carbine wood kit on it.
I'm also ordering a m1a1 rear sight for it (will need some mod but i don't mind...)

Can't wait to receive it :)

Can this baby be accepted at games within sniper rifle rules as it's semi only?

been told that my SR25 couldn't be a sniper since with the semi auto I can shoot way faster than a BA.

duh...

Will wait for the npas to field it then...

Personally I am an M4 kinda guy, I love everything about the M4/M16 platform, and I enjoy a good support gun at times as well... I still wanna get a 10/22 though.

its all up to the specific field you play at. last game day, i used my ICS m4 as a sniper :P i was told i had to wait 5 sec between shots. in 15sec i had 3 kills over 125ft away :P

This. Since you have an ICS M4, all you need is another upper receiver, upper gearbox, and the MK12 parts.

That's likely a good practice anyway, rather than fire off a volley of shots that miss a target and give away your position...

I have always liked the look of the MK12 Mod 0... M16 length is a bit too long for my style of game play, but it sure looks BADASS when it's done up right.

may I suggest the VFC scar SSR ? :P

I'm planning on buying one... right after I'm done with my gbbr... -_-'

RA-Tech is working on it, hopefully it will be done soon cus damnit, i want one too!

one of their video's of the 10/22 it said it had a Npas in it.. but they couldn't show it cause it was fairly difficult to get too and adjust...

guess it hasn't made it to production yet?

If it ain't broke don't fix it. You evidently have an accurate gun, so why not upgrade it and enhance it to your liking? Buying, upgrading and tweaking a KJ 10/22 could be more of a hassle.

as an owner of a mk 12 mod 0, I would say go down this path mainly because since you have an ics m4 and all you have to do is change the whole upper assembly and you have both a m4 and a dmr. As an added bonus, you won't need to buy new mags

true. but idk im trying to get away from the AR style. theay are nice, i love them, but there just to common. although ics is a fantastic brand, i like the "bolt on" capability of other AR type ie: marui or G&G.

my list of owned Airsoft Guns from 1st to newest:

TM Glock 26A
KSC Glock 19 HW
G&G MP5SD5 (Clear) w/7.4
ICS M4 (clear w/ full stock & no rails) w/7.4
TM Glock 18c AEP w/7.4
KWA M11a1
ICS m4 CQBR w/7.4
Marushin Derringer Silver 6mm
TM Mp5k w/11.1
TM Glock 18c GBB
G&G max m16 w/7.4

so ive had 3x AR type AEG. like i said, i love them, but i want something different now (including SR/MK variants)

this is what ive come up with. personally i think id use the second from the top 95% of the time (the grey is supposed to be FG):
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t.../myweapon5.jpg

m14 set up :)
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/t.../myweapon6.jpg

I tend to steer towards the M14 myself ( I currently have 3 in different stages and builds) . however having to barrel through the bush, and the run and gun that will pop up can suck, even with a socom length.

I recently re aquired an old friend of a G36 ... and I'm doing a rebuild of an X36 variant .. sleaking it down some, some M4 adaptor parts. gives me a "dmr" platform .. that can fold up some to be more run and gunable. the downside to it's build is some Sim type games it might not be accepted as a DMR gun.

Have you considered a bullpup?
Basically, you get an M16 length barrel in a CQB configuration. There are quite a few different designs floating around. Off the top of my head:
L85
AUG
FN2000
Type 96 (so far only RS makes this one, I believe)
The L85 and the FN2000 take M4 mags, although I understand that the G&G version of the 2000 (the only one on the market ATM) has a fitment issue with non-hicap mags. (There's a protrusion on the gearbox that intrudes into the mag well, right at the point where a hi-cap has the fill port. Mid & low caps don't have that fill port, so the protrusion strikes the top of the mag. It may be solvable with a bit of careful surgery on the mags, but I have no further details. Fortunately, there seems to be another thread in this section on that issue...)

yeah, ive been thinking of them. so far i like TM's new AUG High Cycle (short barrel version) and the Tavor TAR21 (ARES). knowing me its best if i wait and explore all my options for a bit first. still cant decide lol. i wish there was a Bullpup that had a v.2 gearbox. SO much easier to work on!

The L85 and the FN2000 take M4 mags, although I understand that the G&G version of the 2000 (the only one on the market ATM) has a fitment issue with non-hicap mags. (There's a protrusion on the gearbox that intrudes into the mag well, right at the point where a hi-cap has the fill port.



The main issue I have heard about with the FN2000 mags is with the King Arms mid-caps in particular. The notch on the top of the mag is too long, all you have to do is cut a bit of it off to reveal the spring and you should be good to go.

I will warn you though... In my own experience, King Arms mid-caps tend to have some feeding issues when used with anything G&G. With my G&G M4 RIS they tend to double and triple fed out of the mag. Not sure if that is an issue with my mags alone or if it is a general issue with the KA mags in general...

I'll wait for the ICS FN FNC. looks like is gonna be awesome.