Most Comfortable Rifle
 

What do you think is the most comfortable / ergonomic rifle? (AEGs and GBBRs)

all depends on use...While my AI sniper rifle is real confortable and ergonomic when shooting from prone off the bipod and monopod it's the worst piece of shit when running 500 meters to engare a series of targets, there my ar-15 is mutch better but it sure does suck when trying to engage targets 1000 yards away.

While I usualy prefer SBR's my favorite airsoft gun remains my good old RPK. But ergonomy wise it's hard to beat the armalites as it can be personnalised to fit it's users taste and preferance. There is a world of difference betwin my service ar-15 and my GF's but both are built with the same use in mind

1000 yards?! I don't think even a real AR can engage at that distance...

What kind of setup are you running that allows you to engage targets 914.4 metres away? YOu must play on very large fields then.

I believe it should be 100 yards... Hopefully!!!

You're gonna get a huge amount of AR bias due to the massive userbase of them. It seems they only get 'comfortable' when you slap a load of magpul shit onto the gun.

My votes going to go for the MP5 with a full stock.

Of all the rifles I've held, I think I'll have to give it to my f2000.

My vote is for the F2000, the AR-15s are customisable, but off the bat I think the F2000 is comfy (I haven't gamed with one though).

the AR pistol grip is very comfy but ARs are front heavy.
the bullpup configuration is comfy once you get used to it, but the grip is not as good as an Armalite's.
MP5 related is comfy but the selector interferes with the hand...
the most amazingly uncomfortable grip is the Sten.

There is a very good reason why there is a massive user base to them.

They are comfortable.

they produce a lot of them because the rifle is famous also, like AKs...during the 80s M16s and Uzis were everywhere :)

^^^^^
This.

Give me a stock AR, stock grips, handguards, etc and I'm a happy camper. It's simple, ergonomic, and gets the job done.

As for SCARs, they basically have an AR lower receiver and grip, so they're pretty much the same for the most part when it comes to the ergonomics of holding / shooting.

Here's my suggestion for Most Comfortable Rifle (Change softdrink for your favorite beer):

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/985...ballistics.jpg

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/2...cetactical.jpg

I got to hold an F2000 at our last game and I fell in love. It just drops into place so comfortably.

Well considering a quarter your list are not actually rifles...


Probably AR platforms.. They are like the lego's of the firearms world, you can configure them to the point where they suit your needs, However without that aftermarket niche I would probably a toss up between the FAL or AK Series.

This is strictly airsoft.

this one

http://www.dcra.ca/NSCC/NSCC%20Servi...0Poaps%202.JPG

I find M4's very comfortable to shoulder, especially if they've got the telescoping stock.

Only guns I really find uncomfortable are G36's and AK's

I can get decent groups at 1000 yards using a douglass 18.5 inch barrel with a 1/6.5 twist ( custom made) staineless air guage. Using a 100 grain match BTHP
bullet with a lapua case, CCI benchrest primers and 28 grains of h4895.

Bullets will not fit the mags and must be handfeed to the chamber. Also I do recommend crimping the primers...

But back on subject at hand the same Idea goes for my airsoft guns. What is confortable depends on what I want to do on the field. No point in lugging a 17 pounds sniper rifle when charging heads down into a bunker.

I have found that the AK is the least comfortable rifle to hold, the front grip is not very good.

Ergonomics are definetly on the AR side yet I tried the very last G36 with the... let's say "ACR-like" stock, fully adjustable and the old feature,ambi mag catch, trigger bolt catch and realease, etc with the legendary reliability of the G36 serie... the point on which AR are the worst in history.
Anyway I love this weapon system more and more after each update.

And on the "AR modularity" argument : why the hell would I need 10 000+ spare parts from 10 000+ manufacturers ? I got one RAS, top rail and one stock and it does everything the aforementioned parts do.

Only thing I would like now : 6.5 or 6.8 caliber kit.

have you tried modding the mag? cutting a notch into the front of the mag 5 rounds deep often allows a larger bullet to feed. i have seen this done many times there are other mods allowing even 140 gr. bullets to fit into the mag

I'm probably in a very tiny group, but I find that G3s are wonderfully comfortable.

Im guessing you never saw Vondnik's AR.

The unreliability of the AR-15 is pretty overstated; the original m16 was terrible due to several parts which should have been chrome lined, and they were issued without cleaning kits, so the troops thought they were self cleaning. The new AR-15s, if properly maintained are quite reliable.

An AR variant since it's of the most customizable to suit your needs, body size and shape.

This poll is going to be highly skewed towards AR's because that is what the majority use.

Doesn't mean it's the most comfortable.

i found the p90 to be comfortable. As it's so damn light it doesn't really feel like your holding anything.

I just got to ask!

Please define descent (in inchs)

What specific bullet are you using?
What kind of chambering are you bored to?
just curious... HP... for a 1000yards? Why not Nosler balistic tip
and why would anyone want to build a 1-6.5" setup arround an 18.5" barrel!!!!!

Cheers

This is the best open ended statement I have read on these boards Dude!

Beyond that, Pistols are likely the most ergonomically designed tool in the universe. There is only one way to hold it and the action button is un deniably always in the most utilizeable position.

so all of the assault rifles in the list that do not have a pistol grip are dropped.

The next item is weight and stabitity. Your list has only AR's with the mag between the Pistol grip and the fore grip so there are no other options there. The weight is spanned between the grips. its a draw. These rifles are all the same.

Its not like you are asking about Motorcycles which are wildly differnt from one type to the next. and trying to find the right place to put your feet.
Cheers

As most guys said, AR's. Reason is there's so much variety of aftermarket parts. From the rails to the stock, and grip are exchangable for operators comfort.

Mk16 scar.

agreed!

Based on looks, i dont really care for Masada's but WOW are they Comfortable!

Can't say that I've gamed all of those guns but my Sig 551 sure fits me like a glove.

I think it's just a bad question. When I first grabbed my AK47 my thoughts were something like: "Russia-works perfect, feels awful". After a few games it was the most comfortable gun for me. Then I bought Masada and when I grabbed it, I couldn't understand what is so ergonomic about it, it felt weird in my hands. And after few days it is on the same level of comfort with AK.

So my advice: the only two things you have to worry about are overall length of the gun and length of the magazine (yes, AK sucks at this part, but you can still buy shorter mag). You should just buy what you like the most. I just couldn't be happy with SCAR, cause I think it's one ugly weapon and looking at it the whole game would ruin day.

while I will reach for an M14 most every time I have the option.. their comfort seems to go a little down hill when fast move and fire through wooded areas (even with a short barrel)

so for me personally the over all most comfortable/usable would be the Aug.

for some reason I find it really hard to be comfortable with an Armalite, I think it has to do with the angle of the pistol grip to the height of the cheek weld of the stocks. guess I'm too much of a rifle guy.

I'm the same here, I just dont think armalites are comfortable at all, just awkward and annoying.

Mp5's just seem to mold right into you though, haha

Of all the airsoft guns, I had the chance to handle (AK47, Type 56-1, MP5, MP40, AR, MP717(r))- I must say my MP40 is the most comfortable to play with - the weight is mainly centered in the middle perfect for a trail carry while running and the pistol grip is very comfortable (took me one game and I never went back to my AK).

The more current the design of a weapon the better chance there is that it was designed to be comfortable to use.

The FN SCAR and the Magpul Masada are the most current items up there. The controls will be ambidextrous and short throw, the stock will be adjustable in a few dimensions, and that will really go a long way to making the rifle comfortable to use.

The P90 sure looks ergonomic but it has no real adjustment built in other than putting a longer butt pad on. I've had many people mention they find it uncomfortable to hold because of they have to bend their wrist.

I have six of the choices on this list within arms reach by the way (seven if you count other).

You don't shoulder AK. AK shoulders YOU.

Actually in the MASADA Magpul just took everything single feature of the late versions of G36 except for barrel and trigger group. They didn't invented anything, just took everything good and put it in a thinner body with M16 mags... even if a jackass at Remington placed the cocking lever exactly where I hate to have it on the ACR.
I don't care for body size (actually I prefer it to be a little bit massive) but the M16 mags are a good thing.
Interchangeable barrels are good too but on the field given they might need to cool down before changing that's a really secondary feature, you're better off installing a proper barrel length before going on the field.

SCAR ? Not bad but the only thing it inspired me in regards of the competition is "Meh...".
Plus I find the EGLM trigger system retarded, XM320/AGL design is a LOT more comfy and "wrist-friendly".

For out of the box comfort, I really like the Tavor. Short profile, very flick-able, and light weight. However, an AR with aftermarket accessories can be as good or better.

AK series for me. Though, the SIG's and MP5's are incredibly comfortable also.

I doubt you would say that if you were popping off 7.62 x 51 rounds.

M14 is not ergonomic, it is "traditional" and pretty punishing to shoot for extended periods.

The Armalite rifle was designed to be ergonomic. Bore in line with the stock and a head erect posture.

Assault rifles.. like midsized cars tend to all look more or less the same.

it's not until we see bullpup designs that things get shook up.

the bullpup configuration is I think optimized for the modern battle field, where mechanized infantry are very likely to end up in a urban environment. You can have a carbine length weapon with a rifle length barrel.

The SA80 was a groundbreaker for this configuration, with the Tavor taking a bit further.

Id be interested to see if a Bullpup makes it into the improved carbine tests the USA is tendering now. I expect not.. seeing as they are seen as "too European"

prefer the ACR masada to the scar ... tryed both ... and bullpup design need too mutch movements to change mag properly

pos :
handle grip is more confortable for hands, scar use the same handle grip as standar m4/m16 series

bolt release can be reach by the triger finger easy

bolt handle is at the right place; you can grab it without getting your eye out of your aiming system (if you have the ak masada version sorry but it is not that place that I'm talking about)

the whole gun mecanics is ambidextrous making it sweet for left handed people...

cheek rest came on each stock

cons : too many complain about cod : mw2 ... lol who care about a game that i never played this is the best and the fresh weapon on the market ...

but because magpul is in the other category i would say hk brand usualy doing good on ergo and FN also (like FN 5.7,p90 fn2000) sorry for scar fan but the ergo is the same as a armalite brand ...

Don't forget about the "tendancy" of Colt to offer golden posts to every single guy having a word in issuing assault rifle. That's one of the reason why the M16/M4 were not really improved in 50 years where the rest of the world had better guns. If I recall they're just talking about getting rid of the gaz tube to put a short stroke piston retro fit.

Starting to change a litlle bit given the USMC Force Recon are getting a SAW version of the HK416 (basically they just put a heavy barrel on it)... "weirdly" every guy in Force Recon is converting to SAW. :D

Now I'd like a change in caliber...

Colt's influence can't be denied, they have a LONG history with the US army and all branches.

I donno on the change of Caliber.. the argument would have to be pretty persuasive

Well there's the "See that taliban you just shot in the guts? Now look how he stands up and start shooting back.".
And the "sad" part is : the talban in this story ain't even high. The 5.56 has a low stopping power, that's why i'd like a change to 6.5 or 6.8. I'm using my 417 90% of the time (and I love my sweet 7.62), the rest is on my 98B so .338 LM.
Obviously these too are for DMR and marksmen but a simple Grendel retrofit (6.5) wouldn't hurt.

It sounds like you have been watching Future Weapons, who's claims are about as reliable as Deadliest warrior. They have claimed that the .45 ACP has more energy than the 9x19mm and claimed that the .408 Cheytac had more energy than the .50BMG at 500 yards; I am not even going to mention that whole dragon skin thing.

The most comfortable rifle is the one you are used to, so considering that the vast majority of people use, or have used ARs...well you know whats the answer.

Imo the G36 is pretty comfty, I like its grippy rubberized stock.

Ive ownee an m4 carried a c7 every day for 8 months strait own an ar15 and think that my g36 is more comfortable then all of them

I like the show but no (and I share the thought about the so called Deadliest Warrior I watched only two minutes).
But relation stopping power, guy who stands up after being hit, that's not a joke (and if I have no idea about the .408 the .45 ACP vs 9x19 is true by the way). The British experienced it during decolonization with high caliber and really really high Africans with machettes, we experienced it during WWs, Afghanistan, and it continues today. So yes, sometimes size matters.

I may just have the right body type, but AKs just seem to roll right up perfectly every time without any help from me.

I had to think about how I moved my AR before I learned to handle it reflexively.

Full-stock MP5s are somewhat awkward for me, though I love them dearly. :(

The MP5 is very comfortable...until you hold a G36. The G36[c] really does make the MP5's design feel dated.

I have held both P90 and FAMAS but have never reloaded them. The FAMAS, especially, really gives the G36 a run for its money in terms of overall feel IMO.

Of note: have help basically all airsoft gun derivatives that are readily available.

When I had a P90 it felt SO nice to hold and use. Never used in CQB but I would imagine it would be a king. Only issue was that reloading was a total ass clown's manoeuvre, which is ultimately why I sold it.

The show is just a glorified infomercial, so they will show the slightest issue with the competitor and then overstate it so the product that is being advertised seems much better than it is. The issue of lethality is not as big as it would seem; page 7 of this government document provides some insight on this http://militec1.com/swat.pdf .

How about this as a argument,

See that coyote that you just shot with a .223 non FMJ?

Notice how it just spun in a circle and ran away?

The biggest problem with the 5.56 is that it's FMJ if it was hollow point or jacketed soft point it would be so much better.

Me I like my FN FAL and M14 7.62x54 death. Airsoft versions replicate the feel well.

never reloaded or gamed one, but an aug was stupidly comfy to shoulder.

f2000 is also nice once you practice reloading bullpup.

g36 is also comfy. pretty much the only m4/m16 feature that i miss is the convenient location of the mag release button

If talking pure comfort, I`d have to go with a P90.

If something comfortable that I`d use, MP5.

Of note: aug and Tavor both torque down on rear hand due to weight distrubution--to me they seem inferior to many other guns in terms of feel.

These guys are about coyote sized. HELI-HOG'N on Vimeo

Uhh, how is that related at all? :rolleyes:

Goes to caliber wars.

This poll thread failed with the title then with the poll options.
lol...

most people havent had too much experience with all the guns on that lsit most likely.

but for me out of an m4, mp5, and g36, i like my mp5 and m4 the best, but the mp5 with solid stock wins just beacuse battery changes are 10x easier.

the g36 is way too much. (big and bulky)

Seems like you have plenty of real world combat experience shooting Taliban. I too feel your pain of having to shoot at a bad guy more than once due to the poor stopping power of the 5.56mm peashooter rounds. I never settle for anything less than my 6mm double polish!

hrm for me it would be

mp5
g36
p90

the fn2000 i found kinda awkward, and i really dont like the feel of armalites or aks

Magpull ACR
Classic Army P90
G&G MP5

The FN2000 seemed very large and bulky when i held it.

double post

Hollow point 5.56mm rounds exist, but they would violate the Hague convention for military use.

the M14 is 7.62x51.

There's some dudes you could ask out in compound on the other side of the world and see with they think of .556,,,oh wait you can't ask them anything anymore.

Hard to say for me since I'm a lefty, so I would have to say the scar-l and the tavor mainly since its ambidextrous. Strangely enough, aks work for me too as a lefty

Glock 17 with zahal stock..... It's kinda a short barrel rifle

Got to play with one in the mother land!

Wants to go back - alex

Not the point. FMJ round in 556 are unimpressive they have high velocity which any hunter can tell you is terrible for killing game. Since the bullet goes so fast it doesn't cause the trauma a slower round does.

Also I was probably thinking about the mosin nagant that fires the x54.

Mosin, SVD, PK... etcetera.

There is A LOT you don't understand about external ballistics; first of all higher velocity rounds do not go straight through the target, they tumble, causing more trauma, and higher velocities result in more tumbling. The standard US military loading produces cavities of about 6" in diameter and the bullets fragment, which causes a lot of trauma. The 6.8mm and 6.5mm rounds have a larger permanent cavity, but that is at the cost of controllability and ammunition capacity, and the need for better stopping power is really less important than people think it is, also shown in the last document I provided.

For an improvement to weapons, I think the military should investigate duplex rounds again or an-94 (2 round burst) types weapons, because those systems improve a soldier's hit rate.

ballistics source: http://www.brassfetcher.com/US%20M19...%20gelatin.pdf

Yes, the hearsay is fun and all, but science is science.

A lot more went into selecting 5.56 as the baseline NATO cartridge than what it will or will not do to a watermelon.

Back on topic:
After thinking about this and handling my AR and my AK, I can firmly say that with Irons, the AK is a superior point-and-shoot assault weapon.
Acquiring a good sight picture in a small movement is faster and more wieldy.

With optics added, however, It becomes clear that if you're talking about going from a rest position to a precise shot (rather than merely putting rounds in the right direction) the handling is far superior in the AR.
The balance is more centered, It just works.

Maybe I'm just indecisive.

I really like the AKS-74U, actually, but most of my friends can't stand it. I guess I lucked into being just the right size for the stock.

I didn't used to like Armalites, but then I did BMOQ and sorta got used to them, now I have an AR-15 and like it just fine. I'd never get an M4, though...

o right i forgot to mention that i like guns with the battery in the stock also because they are better balanced.

guns with batteries in the hand guards tend to be too front heavy for my tastes

Really? I have always had trouble getting a sight picture on the AK's sights; my m4's larger rear sight, to me, seems quite fast and easy to squire a sight picture with.