keep your batteries warm in the cold
 

please forgive me if this has been posted, but i had an idea for winter games.

we all know that the cold saps batteries like spies to a sentry (heh heh). ive tried many options from wrapping the stock of my guns in thick fabric to hot packs...

what if the battery was not exposed to the cold? :)

my idea is to have a extended cable connecting the battery (which would be located around my body core) to the gun?

using simple electronics theory i took into account resistance of the cable, but in my opinion the loss in power due to resistance is microscopic compared to the loss in power from the cold.

tonight i plan to have a pull mock up done and pics to follow.

what is your thoughts? i included a paint mock up to show what i mean.

batteries
 

This is a pretty smart idea my friend was just thinking of an idea like that, just to have the battery in your bdu and have the wire running out into the gun. What i do is just wrap a cloth around the battery and stick it in the stock and i guess if your playing in colder weather you can just put a hot pack in with the battery to. works for me =)

*tips hat* thankyou my friend. yah, i thought of it because when it comes to batteries, p90s cant store large ones, therefor they drain fast. so this ought to let me use bigger batteries as well ^_^

I have a few concerns.
1) if you drop the gun, you trip or fall etc, you could yank out the wiring in your gun by accident, damaging the contacts and switch assembly in your gearbox.
2) your tethered to the gun
3) If your battery gets a short, you cannot ditch your battery/gun in the case that it catches fire or starts to combust. For example, if suddenly your battery starts to combust, you would have to rip off your gloves, rip off your jacket, all while panicing due to your body being on fire.
4) This is doubly so for lipo setups.

My suggestion is to stick with hot packs or something else. Ive seen enough batteries go up on the field to know that while the chances are fairly remote, the chances arnt THAT miniscule.

As for your P90 battery size issue, either do the JBatt mod, buttstock extender, or simply go lipo.

oh, no, i will still have the battery connector connecting the gun and battery cable in case of shorts. the thing stopping me from said suggestions is money and time. im broke and game is in a week. but all in all you raise a good point

^^ no, once the battery shorts, the battery is going to get hot fast! even though you have disconnected the gun, the battery will still be hot and could get hotter. if you fall and the wires get yanked from the battery side, how are you going to ensure that the wires won't short?

much better way would be to make an insulated neoprene battery bag and throw in a hot shot or two.

hm, yah, i see your point. just to play devils advocate, im an extremely good electrician (i was born with a soldering iron). lol XP though still, i see your point. and yah, i dont want to go to a burn ward

How good is LiPo in the cold vs Nicad or NiMH?

Yup, Chemical combustion is pretty hard to stop, sometimes removing the current will not stop the reaction process once it has started.

Tether the battery to the outside of the gun if you dont have space for a hot pack inside the gun. That way you can always throw the gun away should it start to combust and there is little to no risk to your wiring and switch assembly should the wiring get yanked (assuming you tape the wire down to the gun stock etc rather than let it float about freely)

better

true true, liek the neo-prene idea

Played a few times under zero, up to - 8C the battery will last. Under that I would be worried about the gearbox failing. If you want to play anyway, you can buy a stock pouch that strap to your gun stock to hold the battery and you can add hand warmers to keep it warm. GBBR guy's put these inside their mag pouch to keep them warm on cold days.

Hand warmers:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

stock pouch:
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=6384

I bet this would fit in a P90

http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1259

Ok, it's sucker bet.

User springers in winter :D

hrm okay how about run a length of wire with deans connectors on both ends, one into the gun one to the battery, rather than keeping the battery inside your bdus, keep it in a small mag pouch on your vest. get a length of tubing like from an old camel back to give the wire itself a little more insulation from the cold.

keep the battery wrapped up in the mag pouch, kept centered by wadded cloth, with a couple of heat packs between the outer layer of the cloth and the inner wall of the bdu pouch. run the wire, paralel to say a sling? a 1pt sling would be best, so you can have the mag pouch high and just a bit centered on your chest, without getting in the way of shouldering your weapon.

battery stays warm, but rather than having to be inside your bdus its in an easy access pouch so you can pull it out and get rid of it if it starts shorting

might be too much of a pain but meh its an idea, likely a bit safer at least than what shellshock intended

I just came up with this one off the top of my head, so don't flame me too bad if it's completely foolish but for those who cannot fit warmers in their stocks, and assuming the battery goes into the stock, could warmers be attached to the outside?

nice XP go figure i think of the most harmful way XP i have a lipo bag, if i were to do this, but have the battery in a lipo bag... still risky?

Still risky,the bag still gets hot, it just doesnt combust.

Putting the batt in a mag pouch will still cause the batt to get cold, your mag pouches wont retain any heat. And you still have the issue of tethering yourself to the gun.

it could work if you insulate the stock over the warmers, but consider this. it you tape the warmers to the stock, heat will more likely escape the exposed side faster then penetrating the stock and warming the air inside to then warm the battery. the best way to transfer heat would be direct contact with the battery. air in an insulator.

if the lipo was to ever catch fire, you'd still have a fire in the battery bag inside your BDU's! Next...


goto the dollar store and get an insulated lunch bag. doesn't have to be great. cut it up and make a pouch out of it a little bigger than your battery. if you're good at sewing you can design it with a flap and a over lapping hole to pass the wires through. otherwise just tape it up with good ol' duct tape while making it pretty and manly. lol insert battery. activate warmers and insert. seal it with wires hanging out. tape to stock and connect wires.

Quick disconnects, a fuse, and long enough cable, but not long enough to start to kill DC.... I see no issues with this.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4540/extbatt.jpg

But what if your battery is a crane battery for an ICS that uses contacts?

It should disconnect between the stock and the rifles body. If it does not, you should make it do that.

Well what I do is put my spare batteries in a wool sock with 2 handwarmers in there. Then just put it in my EMT pouch. And also I dont know if this has been said, but if you drop your gun or trip and fall you will rip the wire out. Sorry if someone said that already.

Assuming that you were to install the warmers and insulation indoors. Then the battery would be initially at room temperature (nice and warm). When you are outside, you won't care about the heat that is being transferred from the warmer to the battery (because the battery is already warm). What you are concerned about is the heat loss through the insulation. Coachster is correct, installing the warmers on the outside of the stock will not keep the batteries above freezing as long as if the warmers were installed inside the stock (assuming the same insulation thickness). The reason is that with the warmers on the outside, there is more surface area for heat loss. Also, if the warmers are inside the stock, there is the extra insulation of the plastic stock.

P.S. Heat transfer is always going to occur across a temperature difference. If you just wrap the battery with insulation, the heat loss will come from your battery - and over time, it will cool down to the outside temperature. By placing a warmer inside the insulation, the heat loss will come mainly from the warmer, not your battery (note: your battery will also get warmer, storing heat that will be released when the temperature of the warmer drops below that of the battery), thereby extending the time in which the batter remains above freezing.

OK - I'll stop rambling now.

Yea but cobra, even with quick disconnects, sometimes it takes just the ignition to get it going. Disconnecting wont stop the chemical reaction inside batts once they have started. Lipos for example will continue to combust till the fuel is consumed.

Nicads can also do alot of damage if the plug isnt pulled fast enough, they take longer to start up, but they still will continue to combust after the battery has ignited.

Haven't had issues with LiPo's in the cold, but it's an expensive alternative and requires reading and knowledge of how to use them lol

I think you guys are going too far into the safety side of things. He has an excellent idea with running a long cable with deans to the battery. Even if the deans gets disconnected, snow is really non-conductive for the most part.
Heater packs outside the stock are a really good idea.
Having the battery in your pocket also works well.
Stock mag pouch with heater and battery is probably the best idea.

Either way, if you have deans connectors on the cable, and have good soldering and electrical wiring skills, the chances of actually having a battery fire are pretty slim, even if your using LiPo.

However I will mention, you need to use quality wiring with a hard exterior. That soft exterior crap gets stripped WAY too easily, and the longer your cable, the more resistance you'll have, and the lower the current going to your gun will be.
4ft of crap 18g wire = audibly lower ROF

Im not worried about the wiring shorting due to snow, Im more worried about him tripping, and yanking the wires and the switch assembly along with it.

Ditto for my 2 cents..I'll stick with the wrapping my batteries in the hand warming packs. Although i gotta say Shell...as a first pass I think it's brilliant out of the box thinking....

thanks man. yah.. tripping seems to me my main concern as well. i failed to take into consideration ice. oh well. thanks for all your input. especially the ones who said it was a bad idea! you possible saved my gearbox

escort AEG?

Solution; deans connectors.

I still dont recommend it.

Not really if the wires get snagged and they break before the deans separate.

And if a meteor falls from space and happens to cut the wires they'll arc then as well.
I'm still gonna say the chances of the battery going up are very slim.

For quick disconnect power links please look at "bullet connectors", local hobby store or hobbyking.com the connectors can be pulled apart fast if required. I use a CTR stock, with a custom battery bag for my big nimh packs I out in an additional section to warm them via heating pads, however my heat pads do not touch the battery directly. This is my go to setup.
Currently messing around with an idea that could solve all the problems pointed out here, just think; Battery mounted on vest, ejectable, no wires to the gun (not in the traditional sense anyway).

well guys, last night i gathered all connectors that i would have considered. i made a quick setup which involved in this order

(fish scale)---[connector]-----------/ /--|original bat connector|--[battery]

i used the following for my test
-blade style (think motor tabs)
-deans
-bullet
-standard
-magnetic

my test comprised of taking a fish scale and connecting the end of the setup to it. i then dropped the battery and measured the total force (mass/gravity) before disconnection. immediately i disregarded the original style connectors.. they dont work for quick disconnect.

the order i found in force needing to disconnect is as follows (more force on top)
-standard
-deans
-bullet
-blades
-magnetic

i was able to determine that the magnetic connectors put virtually no stress on anything, yet stay connected.

i have further tests to run, and there's research to be done (wink) and will update today when i get out of school. now.. if you excuse me, i have a date with a milling machine.

hey guys, wow am i glad i listened! my battery ignited! ha ha *nervous* my p90 started smoking and u dumped the battery just in time. i guess the wasaga humidity must have killed the connector. just a huge thanks to all who said it was a bad idea. if i had not listened to you, i would have been in a burn ward...

-shell shock

what connector failed?

Well, now you know why we don't play Airsoft outside, in the winter time;) Just kidding, I've done worse in my time and I'm still pretty much intact:) I included a link at the bottom to make you feel better.

Take care,

http://darwinawards.com/

What I have done before is put a small battery pouch on a cheap sling and ran the wire along the sling and into the battery bay. Doesn't really help with warmth but it did help me use a battery that otherwise wouldn't have fit. (in a pinch)

@thunder cactus

i didnt run the extension cable. my point was, that if i did, i would have been on fire. it was a mini.

@5kull
thanks man :)

@Mitchell12
yah, i strap the battery to the stock.

all in all, there is minor damage to the internal plastic piece that holds the gearbox in place. easy fix. have spare one.

Let this be an example and lesson to anyone else who thinks it's safe to wear a battery inside their clothing just to keep it warm.

How the hell did you manage to ignite your battery? seriously? You did some pretty horrendous wiring if you managed to actually achieve combustion. I didn't see that post before I posted. Like it honestly isn't that dangerous if you do it proper and you shagged it up... Good job you really make me realize that all those health and safety stickers are put on things just for you. (facepalm extreme)

Regardless of how, he did.

i didnt do it, no mod was done, i listened to you guys! the battery was in my p90! it was the connector or the battery. im switching all to deans. there was no extension cable, no wiring job, no nothing. all was stock. im thinking the battery just was no good.


NO MODIFICATIONS WERE DONE!!!

How cold was it?
We play in -5 all the way down to -10, and for the last 5 years I've never heard of a battery combusting from being used in cold weather...

i think it was the humidity (80%) and the battery was prob garbage. im just glad i got it out in time XP

BS to humidity! We've played plenty in 100% humidity and full on downpours! (one of which became sideways rain because of the tornado...)

+1, we played in some 30+mm of rain at claybank, running NiCd, NiMH and LiPo. Didn't hear about anyone frying a battery
Infact, you can actually submerge an AEG, and it won't set the battery off

guess i just got a shyte batt then. its not the gun. i know for sure. went to staging area, opened everything up, inspected, put in spare batt. worked perfect.

Ive had a Brand New Sanyo Jbatt (P90) go up in flames out of the box.

Wiring or modifications has nothing to do with why I cautioned against it.
Batterys CAN and WILL fail at one point or another. End of story.

This is exactly why I did not reccomend it.

and man, im glad i listened

there's a first for everything. you just happen to listen to the right advice. :D

i tip my hat to you sir