Pet peeve - how the term FMU is thrown around in sales threads
 

First off, this is just a bit of a rant on my part. I'm not usually one to post rants. And even less likely to start threads. But I've come close to being bitten by this a couple of times by the misuse of this term and I find it almost borders on advertising a painted clear / cansoft as "full black gun" for sales purposes. I think the term needs clarification.

First the terminology - FMU = FULL METAL UPGRADE. This means that the gun is NOT stock and was FULLY upgraded to metal where metal should be. And the 2 key words are FULL and UPGRADE.

The term FMU should NOT be used for:

1. stock guns that come full metal (KJW, WE for example) out of the box. Those are NOT FMU. Those are stock, pot metal guns that come that way. FMU suggests the gun has been UPGRADED with aftermarket metal parts, not stock with factory parts. This also applies to stock high quality metal guns like G&P AEGs. Advertising them as FMU suggests stock parts (even though they're high quality) have been replaced with aftermarket, which is not the case. If one of these guns was fully upgraded with an aftermarket body / slide kit, then sure, call it FMU. Otherwise, it isn't.
   
   
2. stock plastic guns that have had a slide replaced with metal. Such a gun is NOT FMU. You put on a metal slide to replace the plastic one. FMU is to be used if both the slide AND frame have been replaced with aftermarket parts. I'm a bit on the fence about using the term FMU on Glocks or other guns that are part plastic on the real steel (P90, 5-7, etc). Technically, FMU can apply to those if all parts that are metal on the real thing are metal on the gun. I'm ok with that, although I'm sure that will get some noobs who don't know better and expect a full metal Glock with metal frame too, even though there is no such thing in the real steel world.
   
   
3. lower end metal guns that have had their slide replaced with a quality aftermarket slide. One example I remember was a KJW P226 that had an aftermarket metal slide installed. This is not FMU. This is a stock metal frame with a metal slide. Yes, the gun is FULL METAL with aftermarket slide, but not FMU.
   

So yeah, to me, FMU is the wrong term in these circumstances and it's misleading, even though it may not be intentional deception. I see this more and more in the classifieds as of late. A few times I've inquired about such guns. Once it was a TM P226 advertised as FMU and had "guarder kit" advertised, but still had its plastic frame. All it had installed was a Guarder metal slide. Other times, I've inquired and found it was a stock gun with no upgrades, and still incorrectly advertised as FMU because it's full metal out of the box. I'm sure the people posting this don't intend to mislead. They just don't truly understand the true meaning of the term. But it's still misleading nonetheless.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day. I just figured I'd put this out there because I saw it again in the classifieds today and it just irks me. Just had to vent on this issue to a crowd that would understand, and perhaps people will read this and stop using that term (ok, not likely, but worth a shot).

these couple years I always thought FMU was

Full Metal UNIT.

So if someone sold G&P M4 FMU, I would have interpreted as stock full metal gun.

at any rate FMU = Full metal gun, whether aftermarket or stock externals. That's how I saw it for the whole time.

Accurately describe your ads people. Don't use Acronyms as a sole describer ever.

Well, Full Metal Unit can be an interpretation. As I said, I'm sure no one is intentionally trying to mislead people (like the "black gun" ads for painted cansoft). But it's been spelled out as Full Metal Upgrade in many ads I've seen in the classifieds when trying to sell a stock metal gun or a gun with a plastic frame and metal slide.

lol, Cansoft's being sold as full metal because the frame was painted black and the slide/barrel is metal. KJW M9's - I've seen that in the short time I've been here on ASC. Tactical facepalm, anyone?

and you would be wrong

I've never seen a Cansoft advertised as full metal. I have seen them painted and advertised as "full black" with no mention in the ad that they were painted cansoft though. To me, that's deliberatley misleading.

Thank you. I've known from the very start of my interest in airsoft what FMU means, and it's always irked me to see it thrown around so liberally, and no one ever said anything about it.

Pet peeve - how the term FMU is thrown around in sales threads
 

Thanks for clearing that up very informative!

As for cansoft sold as metal... Tisk tisk... ;)

FMU has always been Full Metal Upgrade.

It should only apply to stock plastic guns that have received a full metal makeover. Using it for Glocks and stuff with synthetic lowers... through technically correct, is kinda cheesy.

Either way, a full description should be given in the sales thread (or asked for by potential buyers).

As always, it's Buyer Beware; perform your due diligence.


edit: you know, I'll tag on my own peeve on the matter.

Adding a metal receiver to a plastic (such as TM) gun isn't a "full metal upgrade" if you're leaving behind a bunch of plastic bits that should be metal (such as controls). A TM Beretta, for example, also needs a new lanyard loop and mag release.

Thank you Drake. I see you seem to have a bit of an issue with the FMU term used for guns with synthetic frames. I agree. A Glock with a metal slide and metal mag catch is technically "full metal" in terms of comparing with the real steel, but it still doesn't ring right to me when half the gun is plastic.

And hey, a quick look in the classifieds right now will show a few such ads that advertise FMU for stock metal or partly metal guns. So it happens quite regularly, and I'd personally like to see that term NOT used except when appropriate.

+1 to this

The better you describe your items the less questions you might get, the faster it might sell and less problems (if any) will come in the end.

pictures are also a pet peeve for me lol, when I see and add and it says pics to come later, then you see 2 or 3 bumps and still no pictures....but hey thats just me

even more annoying when they use stock photos or a link to redwolf...


personaly I always thought FMU was full metal upper. How ever I never really put all my eggs in one basket with stuff like that and always asked questions. Dumb sellers can only be countered by smart buyers.

Not aure if it was mentioned, but don't forget outer barrels. A TM hicapa is not FMU with just a metal slide, the outer should be metal too!

If you think that's bad Crunchy try answering multiple PM's on what battery does the GBBR take? from my sales thread or the epic fail question of "will your GBBR take a Lipo??"

Ooh man, name names!

+1!

I'll wait till it gets really ridiculous but so far they are all nubs the oldest one joined in 09, the other 4 are this year

Please for the love of the airsofting karmic gods. Don't sell that beautiful gun to someone like that.



On topic.


People who fail to accurately and honestly describe an item fully are usually trying to hide something so that they can ask for more money then it is worth. If you describe an item accurately and honestly and it doesnt sell.. lower the price slightly or wait longer.

Honesty is paramount. If there's a minor cosmetic scratch on a gun. Or 6 parts are missing these are things that should be noted on a sales thread.



cheers.

again my point stands. Its up to the seller to disclose it all but its also up to the buyer to research and ask questions. Ask anyone I have dealt with I usually get them on msn and ask tonnes of questions. I hate getting shafted.

+1 to the pictures pet peeve. I swear I saw an ad once that said something along the lines of "I'm NOT gonna post pictures of the gun...ASK me for it..if you really want it, you'll ask". That guy must be new to sell/buy. Either that or he thinks every buyer is a dumb buyer.

I don't care what's described.. I won't even bother with a sale thread that has no pictures. IMO is pretty arrogant for a seller to think what they have is SO awesome you'll PM them begging for pictures. Got news for sellers like that: pleanty more where that came from. If you can't be bothered to post a pic or two, I can't be bothered to ask you for them. Airsoft in Canada is more of a buyers market now than it's ever been. I'm not going to waist my time with sellers that make it harder for me to buy their stuff.

The ASC classifieds is seriously degrading into a big fucking joke. I'm at the point now where any gun I buy on the classifieds has to be BNIB and from a VERY ruputable member or retailer.

Now I'll admit, I've misued the FMU acronym thinking it meant "full metal unit". However, I've also completely described every item I've sold making it perfectly clear what's metal and what isn't. I haven't got any complaints. However I'll make sure I use the term correctly from now on.

I've never posted pictures... but then I insist on face to face deals .. so people see the item, pick it up.. test fire ( if applicable ) and then buy.

Perhaps there should be rules.

No pictures, add gets deleted.

No trade disputes allowed whatsoever, caveat emptor.

Trader rating feedback mandatory, good or bad, the people need to know.

Clear description of item being sold. Vague, misleading or false statements lead to thread deletion and sanctions with no warnings.

People need to act like adults and not 14 year olds with ADD.

But that goes without saying.

I have a solid trader rating for a reason. It's really not that hard to put in some effort to ensure smooth dealings.

Crunch, I just came across this post, I have to share a little bit of history with you as unfortunately you are mistaken.

FMU= "Full Metal Unit" was started wayyy back in the days when people like Tru and Bubba were around. It originally meant "full metal unit", but over the years it's also been used interchangeably w/ "full metal upgrade".

Now, I can totally agree with people advertising "FMU" for a partially metal item as wrong, but people are going to use "FMU" for metal upgraded and metal stock guns, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

I wouldn't have wasted my time on a full page rant, but hey did did start a nice debate on problems in the buy/sell.

+1

I don't know about the Buyer Beware part tho, some people really try to pull some fast ones, and these people need to be exposed, if you get blatantly ripped off you would want a refund as well.

Granted some buyers are just generally clueless and like to assume too much, and they can be a problem as well.

I always thought it meant Full Metal Unit. What should be metal is metal...this is an absolute term.

Upgrade...is a hugely subjective term. i.e. would everyone consider a Guarder 226 kit an upgrade? is a Dboys CASV on a PTW an upgrade? is putting a Gen1 Dboys body on a perfectly good TM an upgrade? is putting that same body on a broken CA M15 body an upgrade?

Stock means what should be stock is stock, same parts that it left the factory with...this is an absolute term. Might be opened, might be worn...but should be stock parts.

Brand New means unused, not fired, etc... (this term should be absolute but is abused but easily addressed)

Nearly New/Like New/Gamed Just # of Games....are subjective terms.


Whenever the buyer and seller have two different interpretations...you get issues. Even if they're on the same page...there'll still be issues at times, but those are usually easily resolved.

Anyways...final responsibility rests with the buyer...'cause it's their money.