Please confirm, thx
 

OK so after looking through all the stickies I've decided these questions are quite specific to the gun and parts i'm looking at, so please don't flame for not searching.

I bought a used G&G M4 CQB-R and it turns out the gears and piston teeth are all stripped, so, looking at all the online options, I've come down to these two choices; please let me know your opinions.

Option 1: piece together the upgrades needed from capital airsoft because its in canada, its cheaper, and don't have to wait nearly as long for shipping. These are the parts -


Please confirm if these parts (SRC?) will be compatible with G&G M4 ver. 2 gearbox.

-SRC OEM Cylinder and Cylinder Head Set for M4/M16 Series - $6
-Element V2/V3 Piston & Piston Head Set - $14
-Element V2 Ball Bearing Spring Guide - $11
-Modify M120 Spring - $15
-SRC V2 Gearbox Spring Set - $4
TOTAL: $50

I've never heard of the "Element" or "Modify" companies, anyone have experience with them?


is there anything I should look into other than these (except metal bushings) plus I just bought a new set of gears from 007

THIS is my other option, but is it really worth the extra?

eHobbyAsia full tune up kit

Now it also said "enlarged set" which I'm guessing means a wider cylinder/piston set? does this fit into a stock mechbox casing?

SORRY for the barrage, but I need my gun upgraded and running flawlessly for Claybank and only have so long to do it, so any all all info is greatly appreciated! THANKS!

I don't like element anything. Element, Lomax, SHS, 5KU are basically the same company and it's all pretty much junk. Modify is a quality brand.

I believe enlarged is suppose to mean Bore up. Don't bother with that kit. Try wargameparts.ca they are a new company that is bringing in modify products and is in the Edmonton area.

Element is fine for external accessories, but I wouldn't risk it for internal upgrades.

They have an imperfect QC and relatively large tolerances, so not the best for your internals.

Modify is indeed a good brand.

Don't use Element internals. They suck big time and you'll just end up buying replacement parts to replace those parts. With internals, I would use quality parts but external accessories, you can use Element.

Thanks for the info, I'll avoid Element.. As for wargameparts.ca, they have absolutely NO internal parts listed on their website so I think they're out of the question.

Another question: Are all version 2 gearbox's built to the same standards? meaning, are all parts interchangable/same size?

I use Element internals and they're great.

High quality steel torque gears in my AUG.

You are probably the luckiest element user on the planet.

Element and associated are a decent bargain brand. If you want something CHEAP and something you can easily throw away/replace then that's the choice IMO.

Ditto! element 200% torque up steel gears /w piston + element lightweight POM piston head + element shims + element bushing + Prometheus Non-Liner Spring MS120

Thats my FAMAS, yes, in a FA-MAS. Element is the best bargain brand. That said, heh, my Aug is all Guarder and MadBull. I'd wait for the Guarder to be back in stock.
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/guarder-s...a1-series.html

I have Element 300% torque up gears in my ICS M4 - they're awesome... I used Modify for everything else, bore up cylinder, head, piston, head, and spring... I havent had an issue since I installed them.

So let me get this straight, and run through the events.

1) You cheap out and buy a low quality clone.
2) Said Clone breaks
3) You decide to replace the parts with ANOTHER clone Brand.

Its bad enough that your dealing with G&G's and their tolerances. Now you want to replace them with other poor clone tolerances.

In the old days, we used to say "We told you so" when people ignored our suggestions, cheaped out on a clone and their gun broke. Nowadays its the norm and people just seem to accept it.

Do yourself a favour. If your gonna start pouring money on a clone, at least do it right. Go with Higher Quality Parts, such as Prometheus, Modify, Guarder etc.

In the old'n days bad clones with with terrible tolerances were a horrible occurrence. From what I see Element uses mass sales with low profit margins on products with comparable quality to outsell low cost high profit margin "quality" brands. I've had no problems with them, others have had no problems with them.

These aren't pot metal, terrible QC, throw them all in a bag and sell everything parts. Its the exact opposite, its a smart business model and its working.

Again that said, heh, I went all Guarder/MadBull on my main. I'm just saying its a valid option.

Everything i've read so far states that G&G is a decent brand.. its one of the better clone options. or so I've read. Plus like I said, the guy I bought it off of said it was already upgraded. He neglected to mention how long ago it was, and how close it was to breaking down.
Not to mention its my first AEG and I simply bought it to sell it anyway (to my brother) but I can't go spend $700 on a new gun before claybank, so this is my option.

BUT, I appreciate the flaming and closed-mindedness, we need more people like you to keep the mainstream public FAR away from this wonderful sport :rolleyes: Hell, you might as well save yourself the breath from saying "I told you so!" and just point and laugh like Nelson from the simpsons...

I'll apologize immediately for the sarcasm, but honestly not everyone just getting into it has thousands of $$$ on hand to buy a gun, not to mention gear, travel expenses, ammo, upgrades, maintanence, field fees ($130 for claybank!), secondary guns, extra batteries, mags, etc, etc.... However, if your one of the lucky ones who can, you could buy me an SRC G36E heavy support variant, and you'll never have to say "I told you so!" to me again..

007airsoft.com sells them for $500 +GST... ;)

i reccommend going to airsoftparts.ca and buy a systema m120 mechabox, save yourself the hassle of mashing parts together and rebuilding the mechbox.

Ive worked with enough G&G's that I refuse to repair them anymore. Every client of mine who previously owned a G&G is in full agreement when I say that those "high profit margin guns and parts" are well worth the cost.

Smart Business practice or not, Experience has told me that any and all chinese parts arnt worth the hassle. Systema for example used to be VERY good when it came to high quality internals. Now the new stuff is made in china, and are plagued with issues. Faulty manufacturing, missing parts, bad tolerances, horrid QC, poor materials.

Ive had 3 Systema Helical gearsets on me fail within 100 rounds, broken tooth (due to bubbles in the metal), shattered gearsets, etc.

BRAND new systema springs that should be shooting 385-395, that are outputting 230fps.

Sorry, but its just not worth the bullshit. Know what your getting, get it done right. I cant afford to sit there and do twice the labour to fuck with clients guns because the parts are questionable. I will only handle good quality stuff, so far 100% of my clients agree.

Buddy... Im not flaming. Im making a point, trying to help you by guiding you to doing things right... If you cant take the critisizm, dont come posting onto a forum.

Airsoft is an expensive sport. Definately.
I personally do think however, that its well worth the cost to pay an additional 150-200$ and get a CA or TM. The costs in parts for repairs is well over the cost youll pay to get a good gun to begin with.

And SRC is pretty much on par with G&G. that 500 bucks is better spent on a CA or TM.
My personal experiene with SRC is a nightmare. My first gun was an SRC M4. Part after part failed incrementally untill nothing was left that was SRC. I scrapped that gun. Personally wont ever touch SRC again.

Also for the most part, these G&G and new SRC's are new to the market, they have no imperical data on reliability. Only what they "appear" to be at first glance. TM's have been on the market for dozens of years. They are KNOWN for their reliability. In addition, most of these reviews are done by new players, with very little experience or knowledge when it comes to airsoft guns. I find very little evidence from qualified gun docs to prove otherwise. I guess it doesnt help as well that the ones pushing these G&G's and SRC's are the retailers that are selling em. IMO that is extremely biased, and does not hold an ounce of credibility. This is one of the reasons I respect retailers such as BB Bastard so much. The community tests his products, and he takes every precaution to ensure that he does not interfere or bias the community reviews in any way.

Well i don't want to get into a typing war, but I felt your initial post had a "your a dumbass for doin this and this and this" overtone. Your experience stories with G&G and SRC help to an extent, but to say "buy the most expensive stuff you can find, or get the fuck out" is kind of unprofessional... or maybe too professional. You've been doing it so long that you only use the best, I understand that. Sure, you dont like them, but how is this sport ever going to make any advancements in the public eye with threads like this? a "clone" gun works just fine for me, cause I'm not sniping from 250 ft away, or hitting quarters at 100 ft consistently. to be honest, I'll upgrade any gun I buy anyway, so why buy the most expensive stock internals if they're getting replaced? I just want something that will work for now, until I can slowly upgrade the parts one by one.
Like I said, not declaring war, just want you to realize how it sounded to someone less knowledgable who only has intentions of advancing the sport for the general public.

Even if you upgrade the internals, the externals of clones still will have the same tolerance issues. And no, TM and CA is FAR from the most expensive you can buy.

What you guys need to understand is that clones are BELOW the norm, below the bar. Lowering the bar by flooding the market with cheap clones does not change the fact that they are chinese made clones.

If you think 500$ TM's and CA's are the gold plated caddys, you need to open your eyes. Companies like VFC, Innokatsu, Systema PTW, etc are MUCH more expensive.
Some of their guns starting in the 2-3k range.

I think you new guys need to realize that clones like JG, G&G and SRC is not the norm. They are just the lowered bar due to the flood of clones into the market.

There is a reason many experienced players will choose higher quality externals as well over the clones. The reason we choose high quality outter barrels, bodies etc is because of the material quality and tight tolerances. If I spend 100$ on a PDI 6.01 tightbore, im gonna protect it with a steel outer barrel. If my barrel hits a wall, its not going to bend, if you hit it with a jg or a cheaper clone, the materal is not as strong.

Experienced players buy quality parts for a reason. We dont throw our money away for no reason you know. Its not like we ENJOY spending a fortune on parts and guns. Experience shows and were trying to teach you not to make the same mistakes we did. Were trying to help you, but you need to listen to those that give you advice.

The way I worded things may not always be perfect. Im no diplomat. But many of us do ALOT for the community behind the curtains that you have no idea about. You should not make assumptions that we have no care for the community. When youve been in our shoes, made the same speech a hundred times to a hundred new players, and every one of them ignores the advice and come back crying later, you become quite... blunt.

So far, Every new player who has ignored this advice from me has come back to me with an apology. You can ask any gun doc, the real money comes from players who think they know better than to take the advice of one, or other experienced players and do whatever they want to do. Your free to do whatever you want. Its your money ultimately. But understand very clearly that it is your consious choice and that the consequences of said choices are entirely yours as well.

Jinx, Darkangel knows what he's talking about (more or less... Recommending guarder parts should be punishable by a 3 week ban in my opinion...)

What he's saying is true, cheaping out on a base gun with the ideals of "Oh I'll just put better part into it later" is never a good idea.

Buy the highest quality you can afford.

And it's true -- The only repeat business I see are people that don't take my advise on how to build their guns (Or very satisfied customers bringing me other guns ;).)

They have absolutly NO stock. Are you the owner?

Guarder makes excellent Cylinder Heads, Cylinders, Spring Guides.

Their gears are shit and improperly tempered (they shatter), their polycarbs are shit, pretty much everything else guarder makes is shit etc etc.

Jinx you came on looking for help/advice and people offered it. Maybe you came on hoping people would say "oh yeah your bargain basement parts are great" and that's not what you ended up being told, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not sound info. The only close-mindedness that's been shown on this thread is from you.

At the end of the day you can put whatever parts you want in your gun, none of us give a rat's ass if it breaks or not. But people with solid experience are trying to help; they have nothing to gain from this except helping a fellow player avoid making costly mistakes.

So drop the rotten attitude and if you don't want to listen to what anyone has to say, don't waste their time.

Case in point. I have a G&G m16 on my bench right now that needs a new sector gear *the axle broke right off it* a new piston *teeth chewed up* and a few other things here and there.

Its going to cost him over $100 with parts. And I only charge $20/hr "I am less experienced so I don't feel right charging the 50+ some do"

Now my team runs alot of TM's and not one issue with them. The boddies are tight tight tight. No creaks *except my fa-mas but thats a different story*.

Compare to the one guy that ignored me on buying a TM and bought a ACM m14.. that thing is the creakiest thing I have ever seen. And god I have not even opened up the mech box , I do not even know if I want to for him.

As for what brand of upgrade parts I use.

PDI springs over systema springs for consistancy *I think that has already been mentioned that systema springs are shit now*

Prometheus compression parts and spring guides

guarder hop up. Now this is only in my gun but it seems to work very well for my set up.

Everything else I use is OEM TM stuff! Gears, pistons, piston heads... why? because its readily avaliable here and honestly not that bad. That G&Gm16 is getting TM piston and sector gear lol.

So my point is and alot of other peoples points are TM and other quality brands will out last the clone stuff. Now there will ALWAYS be acceptions to the rules. So just keep that in mind when buying your gun. As for the after market parts what I use is because I can go to a brick and morter shop and buy it here in town... I hate waiting for stuff lol.





BTW on a side note I Agree with the comment on the reviews. 14 year olds on ebay doing airsoft gun reviews makes me want to club baby seals with kittens. Just saying.

I'd put myself up as "experienced" and I only charge $20 an hour lol... I probably could get away with charging more... but 20/H feels like a fair rate to me.

I wouldn't use PDI or Systema springs... Don't get me wrong, PDI springs are fantastic.. but because they're all hand made they are not consistent with the rates on the packaging. You really CAN NOT go wrong with Prometheus or Modify springs.

Prom compression parts and spring guides are solid :) You should give Airsoft Research Syndicate parts a try, another tech here had prometheus stuff in his gun.. Took my word and tried out a set of ARS parts.. and now he's only using ARS parts in his guns ;)

TM stuff is great, I use their pistons pretty much anywhere I can.. However TM gears aren't a good choice over 370 FPS, they're made for the Japanese market where going over 328 FPS is against the law... Because of this TM doesn't bother to make their gears any stronger.

Comments on this brand part or that have been made...I'd agree with them all (although I think Prometheus parts are way over priced...nice though).

First and most important thing to do is set an affordable budget. Then stick to it. You'll realize pretty quick if you set your budget too low and compromised on parts/stuff. Don't like someone's blunt comments...welcome to an Internet forum, that's life.

Having worked over a lot of rifles (I worked over 5-6 just this past Wed eve)...I'm of the opinion that there's ultra-expensive "super builds" (we had a $2000 rifle in the shop)...and there's "solid" rifles (tend to cost around $600 give or take) and "cheap/low cost & quality junk"..."junk" is used a bit harshly 'cause sometimes they're ok...but they aren't nice. They creak, flex, break, and usually don't last very long at all.

Having said that...there's plenty of $$$$ rifles that have problems, issues, and fail spectacularly (right Darkangel?!?). I've got a $70 spring bolt action that shoots great for what I want it to do...and a $1000+ gas rifle that needs more love and attention. I've got a $1400 PTW that works just like I expect it to....for the performance and package I got...I think it was a great deal.

Usually, there's a happy medium in the $500-800 range that nets you a "solid" rifle. Works well, performs well, stands up to use and abuse.

Having looked back at lots of time and money spent...in my opinion...it's rarely ever "worth it" to spend lots of time/money to fix up cheap/low-cost&quality stuff. Spend just a little to simply get it running again...that's a fair decision to make. Spend buckets of money on it...that's silly (IMO).

I've had guys ask me to rebuild their "clones" (low cost * quality rifles) with $$$ of high end/price parts...I will typically dissuade them from doing so and steer them to mid-cost parts that are very good. I'll do it if they insist after hearing reason...because it's their dime at the end of the day.

After reading through all the posts here, you should have all the info you need.

Best of luck,

Tys

Yup, Bang on. My C8 was a prime example of that. Money/High Quality Parts do not always garuntee perfection. But youll have alot more issues with clone parts than with quality parts.

Most rifles out here are runnin right around 400-420fps and quite a few on stock TM gears. I think the issue alot of people have is they upgrade to a hard piston and it destroyes the gears. I would rather replace a $20 piston than a gear set any day.

The pdi springs I have used don't seem to be that bad. Granted I have not cronied alot of them but they all seem to be shooting close to eachother, I normaly recommend a 150% which seems to bring in .20gram BB's at about 390-400fps. thats with a bearing spring guide, I think they are supposed to be at about 380 IIRC.

I would love to try that other brand but unless the store here starts carrying that stuff I don't think I will. Instant parts is nicer than waiting 2 weeks for parts lol. My work bench is too small to have back log.

As for the $20 an hour, There is literealy two gun docks here. Mustang and me. Hardcorps is in Pen and he is good but shipping stuff sucks. I believe mustang charges around $50 an hour for work. Don't quote me.

Hey Dirty Deeds,

I am the owner of www.wargameparts.ca ...
The site has only been up for one week and isn't fully functional yet.
I will be doing an official introduction to ASC once the site is done.

Still in the process of uploading stock, should be up and running in a week!

But yes, I will be bringing in both Modify and Element parts :D
Please let me know if you would like specific products stocked.


- Randy

fill valves! i would kill for a good canadian supplier.