If they have orange tips they more than likely came from the US.

Hmm, most guns are different.. Mine has an orange cover for the flash hider. But I guess what you're trying to say is that if there's orange already on the flash hider than yes.

No orange tip on the one I got....

I guess he sells to non age-verified members, too.

iirc hitman got his before the change of policy

Hmm, I'm thinking of buying a KSC USP standard; should I try to find another source or is this screw up a minor incident?

Well would you risk it? :p

Well, IMO, it's 100% completely impossible for a retailer to please everybody. I figure so far 1 (in his opinion) bad experiance with shootsoft vs. a plethora of positives. *shrug*. Maybe I'm just more forgiving of retailers than other people.

like I said before, I was still fine right up until I got the tracking number today to find out that they lied about when the gun was shipped and stole $30 from me. If LeGros had refunded me the $30 and offered a complete apology for the gun being shipped late I would have been fine with it all.

Now LeGros is really trying to pull things:

My reply:

I got both my USP's from Marksman.... solid seller

Drache, some sellers have a general price on shipping for their customers. So shipping next door or across the country is the same price that YOU pay (In this case $50). They make money (and sometime lose money) with shipping also.

When you asked for it to be shipped expresspost they asked for an additional $30 (at the end they still make money from shipping since you found out shipping expresspost is only $50).

Ronan Im not mad and I know that practice! LeGros is saying that he only charged me $30 to ship and yet they paid me $50 back when I shipped it! He's trying to twist the facts!

I must admit I'm surprised, we got a Real Sword Type 56, a Tm Hi-Capa 5.1 and a CA M15A4 Sportsline from Jay and Christian with no problem, no delay no broken stuff no extra high shipping cost no nothing bad. It went so well for all three guns I offered Jay and Christian a free EA game on any console they want and they still haven't claimed them. Maybe your case was just a combination of bad luck stacked up...

Which is why all I expected was a refund on my extra shipping charged to me and a simple apology for getting the gun out late. Instead I get a nasty PM. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN AND WHEN THEY DO LIVE UP TO IT AND RIGHT YOUR MISTAKES!

For those that might inquire this is from my bank statement:
May 14, 2008 PR GIBSON'S LAKESI $53.64

That is the total cost of shipping the JG 416 Back to him Xpresspost shipping with a signature. I can also take a screenshot of my bank statement showing the above if anyone cares along with a screenshot of the post LeGros sent me showing the $70 total of shipping and not the $30 he is trying to say he charged me.

shootsoft
 

Here is the only line We will do here...

As you know we ask for 20 business days before shipping... stock or not!!! You also know... If you don't have your order ship in that delay... you could ask for a refund and we will contact you when it will be ready to ship!!! Please If there is one person who did not get is order... or is refund.... please write it here!!!

On more than 200 orders we have made 3 refunds and 1 of them have been call back to ship is product... They others was back order!

1st call... 05-04-2008
date arrive... not ship, but arrive... 05-12-2008

AEG was not broke like it said!!! THIS AEG is in perfect condition!!

You all know and it wrote every where... we do test all china made!!

YES there was an error on the model... We offer to that customer 2 choices!
1. keep it and we will give him a refund
2. or ship it back at our charge and we will send you the right one

after few yes no yes no, this customer decide to change it! By his own decision he ship it back xpresspost! Normally regular post will cost less than 20$! Not 50$ like we have refund him!

shipping of the new AEG was done around 29 may, that place us before the 20 business days we ask!! AND all with this adventure!

YES I DO make grammatical error... AND I will gain!!!
BUT Don’t tell me we have a bad service!! PLEASE!!
We are here to help this community to grow and help members to have good product at a good price!!

Like I ask you via PM PLEASE REFUSE YOUR PACKAGE!!! We will made a full refund…

Sorry no more line on this… we have more good thing to do!

Christian
shootSOFT

*Sits back and grabs the popcorn*

I hope this could be resolved

whats funny my buddy got the run around from marksman...so he went to shootsoft.... so it can happen to any retailer.... maby drach should get a licence and import to...

Thank you for finally posting Christian.

I asked you if I had to wait the 20 days before placing my order and you said there was no wait.

If there was no problem with the gun they why did I create a post about it in the Gun Doctor section asking how to fix an RIS that was ready to fall off? And you shipped the wrong model, your mistake, not mine. I shipped the gun back Xpresspost because:

1. That is how you shipped it to me
2. I didn't want to wait the extra week it would take for regular
3. CP states that airsoft/firearms are to be shipped Expediated, Xpress, or Priority
4. You didn't state to ship it back regular

You shipped it the morning of the 29th, AFTER I asked for a refund if the gun wasn't shipped. One of your PM's stated that you had to rest up from an airsoft game and thats why you couldn't ship the gun out earlier. At no time did you state I had to wait up to 20 days to get a REPLACEMENT due to your mistake.

On top of all that Christian you still charged me $70 to ship a gun when your shipping states only $40 to ship and when I asked for a refund on the $30 difference you send me a rude PM. Even now you don't take responsibility for your mistakes....

And why would I refuse the airsoft gun that Ive waited over a month for? Unless it turns out to be the wrong one again lol. You already stated that you have "given me too many refunds"....

It just was.

Buyer decides to tell his tale of woe... Seller comes back and tells his side.

it is really no one else's business and should have been resolved between them.

1 cock up and unhappy customer does not make a bad retailer.

Its stuff like this that drives people out of the business....

So what was I supposed to do? Just suck up the loss on money and time? Its stuff like this that have made people leave the sport. This is the review section and my review was that I was unhappy with the service.

LeGros said that he wasn't going to refund me any more money even though I only asked for the $30 difference due to shipping.

It wasn't until AFTER I posted this that he offered to refund the entire cost (minus the shipping costs Im sure) after I've waited a month for a bloody airsoft gun that will finally arrive on my door step.

Settled would be an apology and a refund on the $30 which is all I wanted in the first place.

I agree. Honestly, I don't want Shootsoft going out of business because of some pissy fight between a customer and the store.

Internet is a miracle, everyone can see this thread, and whomever sees this thread will start to have a hard time deciding either to do business with shootsoft or not. And it does hurt the store's reputation and business, we only have handful of importers serving entire canada, mistakes do happen.

Yes mistakes DO happen and that's why I didn't post ANY of this until Christian sent me that rude PM!

A store should be responsible for the things they do!

I'm not going to ask for a trade dispute and Im certainly not going to contact anyone in the law, that would just stupid.

But like I said right before you posted, this is a review section! You don't expect all reviews to be good, read any review and it will have it's bad parts.

Drache do i understand this correctly:

You shipped it back expresspost for $50 (original expresspost to you was quoted at $70). Then they sent you the right gun via normal shipping and you felt you got ripped off since you originaly paid $70 for expresspost.

Correct?

At the end it seems its a question of overpriced shipping. And to take into consideration those AEG SHOULD be shipped via expresspost to confirm with CP rules.

ShootSoft should reimburse you the $30 you paid to get the shipping upgraded to expresspost.

But thats just my lill say.

Oh and everyone whinning about 'ohhh they will run out of business, blablabla', stfu seriously or shootsoft will turn into another Mark/007 with stupididly high prices and poor business practice. Drache has 100% the right to review HIS experienced with ShootSoft.

ShootSoft/LeGros, keep up the good business (and great prices), you did your best to please Drache, but we all know its hard to please everyone. I'll keep sending my friends to you guys for their Airsoft needs.

I've seen what's being said here, but that won't stop me from buying from shootsoft. I still have my order in processing, and I have no lack of faith LeGros will handle it just fine. I know my order is in good hands.

Either way, though my purchase has yet to arrive from shootsoft (only been 10 days so that's perfectly fine) I'm confident there'll be no problems. I think this whole situation is a mix of bad luck and misunderstanding.

this is not a review... a review is an unbiased appraisal ... this is a dispute that you chose to take public.

Frankly... your action seems malicious and you have defamed this business.

If I was a retailer on line... I would refuse to sell to you. Regardless if you are in the right or not... I just would not see any reason to take the chance.

This is my review right from the very beginning! Like I stated everything was fine until the very end and if LeGros had just said that they had "forgotten to ship the gun until three days ago and btw we accidently shipped it regular instead of xpresspost here is the extra money you paid for the Xpresspost shipping back" I would have thought nothing of it and done allot more business with them.

The ADMINS themselves told me one before Brian, that if I was having problems with a seller who wouldn't sort things out, that I should post it out in the open for everyone to read. I just did it in the best place for my "review of their service".

And frankly Brian you are admitting openly it seems that if someone charged you double for shipping an item that you wouldn't ask for your money back. I'm sure a few retailers on this site will take notice :D

Yes that is all I wanted, was to be refunded the extra shipping I paid for originally! Nothing else mattered, I just posted the whole thing so people could see that I originally had good customer service and then things went to shit.

agreed, Drach, start sellin already :)

If I wasn't headed back to school in September I might actually consider it :D

I'd take notice.. and I would sort it out myself until I was satisfied.

If I could not get satisfaction I would not deal with that person again.

If someone asked me directly " what is your experiance with the retailer in question" I would relate my experiance to that person.

That way I could not be found Liable for slander and for defamation.

It is one thing to tell a person that "if I were you I would not deal with that company" it is in fact quite another to tell the world

One is hearsay the other is published and there are very real and potentialy expensive ramifications for those differences.

I tried to sort it out and instead got a rude PM saying that the seller wouldn't refund me money due. I took the next step told to me by the admins by posting it public.

You can find many reviews in this section about online retailers and there are many good and many bad comments about them.

If you can type something bad in a review section about a retailer then you shouldn't be allowed to post the good about a retailer as well.

Normally people would leave bad feedback and be done with it which I had considered but yet then LeGros would just leave me retaliatory negative feedback.

Instead this allowed LeGros to come in and make his own point of view and people could make up their own mind.

And by you saying that posting this is published slander and I could get into trouble, check the Better Business website. They have a list of "bad businesses".

You guys might want to consider that LeGros has a normal life too... Outside the world of Shootsoft and airsoft, he got a family, a job and more. Like everybody. Believe me, there's a lot of sacrifice you need to do to run a store as big as Shootsoft. Pretty easy to order something, wait and bitch after. And 3 refund on over 200 sales isn't that bad I think. People should not look at this incident and think that it happens on all transaction.

I think that stores like shootsoft keeps our sport alive. The least thing we can do is being grateful for this.

And Drache, I hope you'll have your refund cause this is only an exemple of bad communication and misundertanding. LeGros is not a bad man, I'm sure he'll fix things soon.

This is the review section, Drache reviewed his experience with ShootSoft, nothing wrong with that.

Brian it seems you are telling Drache that this section is only for positive reviews, it is not, theirs a lot of negative reviews about products and experiences related to airsoft.

Drache has no reason to 'keep it to himself', he feels ShootSoft owes him $30, they did not want to pay him so he posted a review of his experience with them, THATS IT.

+1 to what Warrior said.

Drache, All I am saying... Is many people seem far to quick to post minor issues in a public forum. Without concern for the possible ramifications.

We are talking about $30 here... and it seems likely that you could have sorted this out without raising a world wide cry of foul.

Legally... if they can show injury.. caused by you.. and illustrate that they made a good faith attempt to sort it out between you .... there is "potentially" a case for legal action because you published to the world words or statements that caused them that injury.

In practice this is not likely to happen... companies sueing their clients is not good for business .. even if they are right.

But it can and does happen.. But it can only happen if the evidence is there.. in public... and because of your action .. it is.

My point is not in defense of Shootsoft... my point is for people to not disregard the possible outcome of their actions before they press "post"

I understand that people have a life but I have owned my own store as well as managed stores. If you want a good business, business should come first, playtime later.

Don't expect people to be happy if you put their business on hold for almost two weeks and then refuse to refund a buyer when you overcharge them for a service.

Limited supply should not cause an instant double standard between buying airsoft and buying anything else.

Thank you for posting this, Drache.

Which I understand, but if you read my replies to you I stated I waited until AFTER LeGros refused my refund and pretty much said live with it, before posting this in the open forum which Ive already stated twice, was Admin advice if you deal with a seller who wont work problems out. (because sellers usually dont want this type of publicity in the open and so will try harder to work things out). I warned LeGros that I would post this openly but he did not care, "Perfect go..." was the words he used.

+1, I agree to the bones on this one.

I understand that you are upset about your $30, but you have to understand.

These bad reps are what eventually drives the retailer nuts and make them close down. LeGros manages shootsoft at his own time, and he does have a life too, and he doesn't need shootsoft to make a great deal of money probably.

If in return for running the only sizeable retailer in Canada gets him bad rep and bad business, he can close down his store any time he wishes.

It might be $30 for you, but all this publicity and impression you give is broadcasted to the rest of Canada. For the rest of us it's the last retailer in Canada, gone. This doesn't affect only you, but the entire airsoft population in Canada, yes, that includes me, you, and probably a few thousands other people all the way from the west coast to east coast.

I am not defending shootsoft, but I am defending Canadian Airsoft community as a whole.

And I really would like you to think about that for a minute.

Thanks.

Just because he's one of a few airsoft retailers in the country does NOT give him a license to keep money that doesn't belong to him. $30 from me, another $30 from 9 other people and then it's $300 total. Is that still ok because he's an airsoft retailer? Ok how about 50 people at $30, now it's $1500.

I really would like you to think about that for a minute.

Drache.. you aren't getting my point i'm not telling you to suck it up, I'm saying that all this publicity is not improving the airsoft community in any way. If I were you, I would want my $30 back as well, but keep it to the PMs. Please, this situation is really not good for the health of canadian airsoft.

and I don't think he's ripped off 9 other people... this situation apparently only happened once up to this point...*cough*

Unfortunately, the nature of airsoft retailing in Canada is exactly that. OK to import, not OK to sell, but we may or may not shut you down at any time (may is more likely than may not).

While I agree that all businesses should be considered as equal when it comes to customer service, airsoft is one of those extremely rare exceptions.

Should a retailer offer the best in customer service? Yes, they should.

However......

Retailers incur losses during seizures. Retailers have to deal with shipping regulations, CBSA regulations, CFC regulations as well as consumers wanting the best product for the cheapest price. Then, they want it shipped the fastest way for the cheapest rate. If it's broken when it arrives, well, figure out how it goes from there.

If I was retailing in Canada, I would focus only on 1 product line. Not several with multiple items from each.

1) Each gun gets inspected for damage and tested prior to shipment. If it arrives damaged, make a claim. If it dies after 200 rounds, too bad. Customer fixes it.

2) No warranties whatsoever. You'd be surprised how many problems this solves when people know that the item they special ordered or bought comes with the same warranty that the retailer gets, exactly jack shit. It breaks, you fix it.

3) No multiples of the same item, with slightly different variations. Like ARs with collapsible and solid stocks, RIS and non-RIS versions, CQB and M4 length. Sell a base gun, and consumer alters it as they desire. This eliminates confusion at both ends.

4) No refunds. Exchange only.

5) No cheap guns. This is just a problem, especially if you're a nice guy and try to fix a problem from halfway across the country, all for a $300 gun that sells for $70 in Hong Kong. A no-brainer there.

6) Limit sales to 2 per day MAX. This will help to keep shipping and ordering straight. If people know they have to wait in queue just to order, they won't be as impatient when it comes time to shipping the item out.

7) Everey item shipped needs to be accompanied with a PM or e-mail containing the tracking number. Whether it's useless to track via Canada Post or not, it's a sign of being on top of things and keeping communication lines open with your customer.

8) No promises on times for arrival of product or shipping. Customer pays for product when it arrives (but a deposit is acceptable), and is kept in the loop at least once per week, even if new info is not available. Items can and will be held by the CBSA indefinately, license or not.

I think this would alleviate alot of problems for everyone, and re-train consumers on the way airsoft retailing is. It's not like shopping for a computer or a TV, it really isn't.

First off I never SAID he's done this to anyone else, that was to get a point across. And obviously you haven't read past the first post because you would have read many times that this was kept into PM's until he refused to refund my money. At that point I told him Id post it in the open and he gave me the ok to do it. This is exactly what the admins have said to do before if you have a problem with a seller. I don't know how many more times I have to post that.....

+1

... I've had nothing but great experiences with shootsoft... but I must say..

The prices on shipping are worse than some chinese Ebay sellers.

You can ship a gun express post for 25-30 dollars, charging 40 dollars to regular post is absurd... let alone charging another 30 ontop of the 40 for express.

For 70 dollars you could get it shipped next-day priority.

Not to mention shootsoft is a buisness, and they have access to the Venture One Buisness plan that lets them ship things for much cheaper.

Aside from the shipping costs, I've had nothing but positive experiences with shootsoft. :) They got me the VSR-10 I wanted, and it arrived within the 20 days like they said.

just to let everyone know i WOULD but from marksman,legros,mopic,viper,and any of the other retailers that i cant think of... all great sellers!!! shit happens.

Exactly.

I would have done business with LeGros again many times if he hadn't kept money that didn't belong to him.

Its no problem.. you feel fine about it.. so no issue..

all I know is if I was another seller on this site reading this... I would not consider doing business with you. You are a "Problem Customer"

Posts like this can cut 2 ways... Sure you have an issue over $30, Fine..

If your first go to is " I will post to the world that you ripped me off if you don't give me my $30" The undercurrent there is ... "give me my money or I will hurt you"

Which is likely not the best place to start in a negotiation... people will get their backs up... and some will simply dig in and not budge. Which seems to be where you are now.

The last position of the seller was "don't accept delivery of the gun I don't want to sell to you.. I will give you back all your money and we will walk away.

your reply was not "fair enough" it was "Screw you I'm going public"

It is your right to take whatever action you choose.. its a free country.. but you have to accept the ramifications of those actions.

In this case.. I expect it is one less retailer that will do business with you..

Brian he didn't offer me a "dont accept the gun and get a full refund" until after I told him I would post this publicaly. And Brian I didn't say give me my money back or else. I asked for the refund and he sent me that rude PM. I then replied that I was sorry but I am going to have to post this publicaly. Maybe you should learn to read before making me out to be an asshole who only wants money stolen from him.

Besides, why would I return the gun once it FINALLY reached my door after a month and only get refunded the price of the gun minus all shipping costs? I'd be out even MORE money.

ONCE AGAIN PEOPLE:

There is allot of discussion about how this is just bad luck/timing, miscommunication, etc so I am posting this to clear things up! Im not mad about the gun being shipped late, I am mad that LeGROS charged my $70 to ship this gun Xpresspost, then proceeded to ship it Regular Post (which he only charges $40). When I asked for a refund on the extra shipping I paid he pretty much told me a big "F'off" on ever getting a refund on my shipping

My 2 cents on this...

Gun problems aside, Drache paid $70 for Xpresspost shipping, and instead had his item shipped regular post. There is no reason whatsoever to not refund the difference in shipping costs. Shootsoft made a mistake, and Drache should not be forced to pay for it.

Yea, that's what I got from this too. It's other people posting in here who have blown this issue way out of proportion.

Nothing but good experiences with shootsoft and Christian from me! He found me the exact gun I wanted and his price was a full $60 dollars shipped UNDER the price of what other retailers had quoted me NOT shipped!!
Great guy to deal with. Always had fast PMs and very reasonable!

I say +1 for LeGROS and Shootsoft!

Bingo. Give this man a cookie.

Now, I'm not necessarily commenting on Shootsoft here, as I haven't personally dealt with them. This is more of a general comment regarding all retailers compared to other businesses.

I seem to see this all the time when it comes to airsoft guns. People post of a legitimate bad experience with a retailer, and here come the flocks of people coming to the retailer's defense, blindly kissing their asses and stating how these people have lives, etc and we shouldn't be so hard on them because they're slow to respond, deliver, deliver incorrect products, ass-rape people on shipping charges then ship via the slowest, cheapest means possible. However, if these same people were buying, say, an item on eBay, they paid their money, and didn't get anything from the seller for weeks on end, they'd be fuming.

Business is business. I don't care if someone is selling clothes, electronics, cars, bikes, airsoft, or drugs. Retailers are in the business for one thing - MONEY. They are not out there doing us a favour. Limited supply of a product should not give the seller a right to screw people over, talk down to them, take advantage of them, etc. All you bandwagon defenders are doing is promoting an atmosphere of complacency, where retailers feel that because of either a reputation they've built in the past of due to a limited supply of the product they're selling that they can be lax and careless and get away with it. What happens in a competitive market when sellers get like that? People stop dealing with them and they go out of business for providing shitty service. That should be the same standard that any business is held to.

Again, this is nothing against Shootsoft at all. I've got no issues with them. Just a general observation.

Exactly what i was thinking when reading some of thoses bandwagon defenders.

It is important to inform other potential buyers of any "issues" they had with a buyer.

Keep in mind no seller is going to have 100% positive all the time. Think of how many Best buys, futureshops, etc have perfectly satisfied customers all the time. Impossible, I'm sure they have at least one dissatisfied customer every few hours. So this one incident would not keep me from buying from shootsoft with confidence.



From the facts:
Drache Received wrong item (unclear if Drache was told by Shootsoft what method they want the gun shipped back by before he sent it back).
Paid for express shipping and was not given express shipping.

I'll have to side with Drache.

In an effort to learn from this,

Shootsoft needs to inform buyers how they want their item shipped back to them, and who should pay for this cost. This needs to be clearly written as part of the buying contract on the website before the user buys a gun. This would help avoid or decrease the chance of dissatisfied customer.



Drache, it might have been better to have created a thread but not used Shootsoft named until much later in the thread and/or after mods asked for it to resolve dispute.

One last thing in general (I learned the hard way), always try to communicate professionally and politely during business, because your words might just show up on a forum thread and make you look bad.

Exactly the point. In this situation, seeing as how the publicly PMs posted are not contested for their accuracy, I have to side with Drache too. He was charged a pretty ridiculous shipping fee in the first place for Xpresspost in order to receive the package quickly. Shootsoft messed up on the initial order, and that happens at times. I don't hold them at fault for that in the slightest. However, the replacement package was not shipped out promptly as promised (actually, was not shipped at all when he was told it HAD been shipped), and not sent Xpresspost. So basically, Drache paid for a service he did not receive, and has the right to a refund for the different he paid.

Shootsoft made an error in the initial order, which they freely admit to (damaged gun isnot even an issue here). They should be held responsible for error and eat the FULL cost of shipping the item back AND resending the correct item at their expense using the same shipping method Drache originally paid for. And the replacement item should have been shipped promptly, as it should have been considered an outstanding order and taken priority over any new orders received. Bullshit on the 20 day shipping that it "normally" takes. The original terms of the sale didn't state 20 days, therefore bringing that up as a defense for slow service is a moot point. End of story. There's no room for interpretation here. This is what good customer service should be.

The rather terse message Drache received in reply to his reasonable request was uncalled for, quite rude, and to me, showed poor business ethics. "We screwed up, we're refunding your return shipping, but sending the replacement via a slower, cheaper method at our convenience..." is not an acceptable resolution of this. As far as I'm concerned, Shootsoft owes Drache $20 and an apology.

And I see that the bandwagon defenders are always jumping into positive review threads adding their good experiences, but are the first to condemn someone for posting a review of a negative experience. How does that make for a fair review of any product or seller? You openly agree that any positive feedback can be posted, but don't agree that negative experiences should be shared. That doesn't make for a very useful review system. And conversely, there are shitloads of people who've had great experiences with buyairsoft.ca, yet, since they sell clearsoft, everyone pipes in on bad reviews of their store, and outright ignore any positive experiences people had. Sounds like people are a little biased and don't like people sharing experiences that are contradictory to either their own experience or beliefs.

Yupp it comes down to Drache paying for expresspost and the item was shipped via regular post (which is also against CP rules).

Drache ask for a refund and was told no.

Seller is at fault, end of story. Now it's up to Drache and LeGros to work it out.

G/L Drache, LeGros is a nice guy, it should work out for the better.

Wow, this thread has been like a frickin roller coaster! It was simply a review taken wrong and blown way out of proportion. people have a right on this site to express their experience with airsoft retailers. I hope this gets sorted out soon so I dont have to keep seeing it on the new posts.

Exactly .... none of this was necessary...

I'm not defending anyone... there is a conflict here... that should have been resolved between them.

What incentive does either party have now to change their position now that this has errupted to a public dispute.

Neither can budge without loss of face. So neither will... now its just a big scab that we all get to pick at.

#1. Shootsoft made a mistake with the shipping and should have refunded the difference paid by Drache.

#2. Drache decided by himself to send the gun back by Xpresspost to avoid further delays for him to received the correct gun. Drache should be responible for the extra cost of Xpresspost shipping if Shootsoft did not ok this.

In the end, mistakes were made. Shootsoft should have another written store policy of using regular shipping for customers to use if they want to return something. And Yes, propper communication goes a long way to avoid mishaps.

And look at it this way - A business can a great track record for products and delivering the correct products on time. But if they even screw over one customer out of hundreds, it raises questions about their ethics, regardless of the great service everyone else has received. And to me, that one case of screwing over a customer speaks a lot louder than the tons of transactions that went smoothly. Again, I'm not saying that Shootsoft has screwed anyone here. Again, I'm just making a generalization.

Now, let's take this review system in as slightly different context. Let's take the ebay feedback system as an example. I'm sure no one here who shops on ebay does so without first checking the seller's feedback rating.

Let's say tomorrow, ebay were to take away the ability to leave anything but positive feedback on a seller, and remove everyone's negative and neutral feedback. How exactly is one supposed to gauge someone's reputation by that? Sure, the person may have 500 positives from the deals that went down well, but how does anyone know that there weren't another 100 transactions where the buyer got burned? That's the same purpose for these review threads, and I think people SHOULD post any negative reviews as well so that we can get a balanced view of how a seller performs. Posting nothing but good review and putting down the people who post legitimate negative ones serves no useful purpose.

And I'll agree with Brian that it did get a bit out of hand and it's now a nasty public situation that should have been resolved in private instead. I'm still siding with Drache on the terms of the deal though.

I never wanted people to take sides and Brian's trolling certainly doesn't help matters since it has nothing to do with what happened.

Christian was acting very nice and helpful through the entire thing and yes I got tired of being slung around saying it was shipped, no tracking number, and then finding out it wasnt shipped until after I lodged a complaint and find out they shipped it $30 cheaper than what I paid for.

Now maybe Christian was having a bad week, that I can understand, I've been there lots. But a simple admit of being wrong and only a $30 refund would have cleared everything up and I still would have left good feedback for them!

Hell at this point and time just a simple apology from LeGros for simple mistakes made would be enough.

So wait I am confused. There was allot of reading in this thread :P

So do you have the correct AEG now?

Best I can tell from the chonology of events, he hasn't yet received the correct product. He was told it was shipped Xpresspost and it wasn't. Therefore he's still waiting to receive it.

Supposedly the correct AEG was shipping May 30th but it wont arrive until the 9th of June. :D

I dont really care it was shipped late and I dont care that I originally paid $70 in Shipping charges!

I cared about being lied to and not getting a refund for money owed!

Hmm sorry but if we 'tolerate' shitty business practice it will only hurt us at the end.

Agreed. I pretty much had a new one torn because I posted in a 007 thread that I'd tried for months to get in touch with Ken about buying a gun - email (both addresses), phone messages, and fax. Got no replies from any of them. Despite there being shitloads of people in that same thread complaining about non-delivered products, lack of communication, money oweing, etc, the 007 supporters were there in droves putting down the people with legitimate complaints, dismissing the complaints we had because Ken is a "nice guy" and "wouldn't do that to people". Well, despite their positive business experiences or knowing him personally, he DID to that to a fuckload of people too. Yet, everyone was villanizing the people for lodging legitimate complaints about service (or lack thereof). And I see the same thing in this thread.

Exactly, business is business, dismissing bad business practice because his the only store, a nice guy or you know his grandmother is not a good reason. Now I'm not suggesting picking up the torches and all, but good business practice can only reflect as positive on the business and employee's. Being treated like shit is not appreciated when your dishing out X amount of money for a product.

Let it be buying a box of Kleenex at the local convenient store, airsoft guns or a new car, is the business has bad business practices (for example being rude), they can go f*ck them self and ill take my money elsewhere OR nowhere. If your really that desperate and want X product and HAVE to deal with bad business practice, ok it happens, good luck and feel free to tell the world about your bad/good experience with w/e business!

I didn't say tolerate it...I was heading towards it's the buyers responsibility to inform themselves as much as they need to before purchasing.

My last purchase ended up over 1K. I probably bugged the shit out of the seller before I put a dime down (PM's and phone calls on the other hand relatively free or at least, proportionately to the amount of the purchase, insignificant). If the seller can put up with my questions, confirmations and can communicate crystal clearly...they're only half way there. The other half comes from references. References from persons that I know well, and the seller hasn't a clue that I'm asking. In the end, I know enough to have confidence in the seller (rep, real name, contact info, etc...)...or I don't buy from them.

90% for me so far has been local, face to face and test firing. Has it worked out everytime where both the seller/buyer and myself have been happy...well, actually yes, it has. Did I get the absolute lowest, rock bottom price...NO, but refer to the previous sentence.

Relating to the original thread...do I think that Drache is correct in posting...in fact, yes I do. He's free to post whatever he wants...just like everyone else.

Tys

You're right.. I apologize ... I'll shut up now.. hope it all works out in the end.

You're correct Tys. It's also partly up to the buyer to be aware and not to just fork over the cash and hope for the best. I'm 100% in agreement with both you and McGuyver's post on the subject. It seems to me that Drache did do exactly that. Before money was sent, he had a lot of communication with LeGros and all terms were agreed on by both parties before money exchanged hands. And with the glowing reviews Shootsoft have received here to date, there was no reason to expect any problems.

Problems arose where Shootsoft were at fault, and it appears they decided to shirk their responsibilities and agreement with their client so they could save $20. And really, they weren't losing anything, since the actual shipping cost through Xpresspost was only $50. They were essentially making $20 profit on shipping charges in the first place.

And again, this thread about a negative experience is totally warranted and justified, because this is exactly what it was.

But this is what happens with you bring mattters into the public. People are going to take sides.

I do have to agree with Brian. This shouldn't be in the review section. Right now, this is a trade dispute. The transaction has not finished. This should have been worked out between themselves. if he wanted to go public like he did, it should have been in the general section of the forums.

Totally Agree

Oh man this thread has taken a ridiculous extreme. +1 to what lord said...

And what you are still all missing about Drache going public was that he did so on ADMIN advice to do so, not because he wanted to openly complain. Drop this issue already.

Drache, good luck getting your cash back, I hope it all gets sorted for you.

I feel bad for Drache losing the $30, but do I want to see shootsoft go out of business...hell fucking no, we need all the retailers we can get. He was right for posting this publicly, its really his prerogative so he can do whatever he wants to do, especially if the admins advised him to.

Shootsoft has been good from what I've heard so far, and like someone said earlier, it is impossible to please everyone, so they fucked up? Big Whoop wanna fight about it?

I really appreciate what they are doing for the community, and I am sure from what was said here that they will learn from it and try to be more careful with their procedures etc.

So guys, instead of taking sides in this whole thing, let's just agree to take from this episode what we can, we do not want to run one of the few retailers out of business nor will we stand for shoddy service, Drache has said his piece and so has Shootsoft, now that it is public, it is entierely up to them to do something about it.

I don't see 1 customer service issue putting shootsoft out of business. I want them to keep on their good work. They've filled a big void when it comes to airsoft in Canada, and hope that they can continue servicing us well into the future.

That being said, I don't want them to turn into A&A either. From September of last year, I saw the 'transformation' of A&A from being a reasonably priced retailer with impeccable business practices to becoming a money hog with poor customer service. Why? Well, there are a lot of reasons, I'm sure, but I could bet the farm that a large part of it was because they got complacent knowing they were the ONLY option, and because they had a large community of past customers and local airsofters to back them up. I personally had no real issues with A&A. But I was seeing more and more people reporting these problems and being essentially shit on by the bandwagon supporters. It's the same reason Bell Canada became such a shitty company to deal with. They had no competition and could get away with screwing people left right and centre and no one had any recourse to do anything about it.

By December or so, they still had a reasonably good public reputation in the community, although by that point I don't think they deserved it anymore. There were alot of A&A issues being raised that would be met with really harsh responses from A&A supporters. It's in the last couple of months of operation that all the prices were getting raised significantly on an almost weekly basis, and floods of customer service horror stories of undelivered (paid for) goods. The story from A&A was that these items hadn't yet arrived, yet their store showed these items as having numbers of them in stock. There were also a lot of stories from irate customers of money owed to them, A&A ignoring communication, etc. Still, A&A supporters regularly flogged the "they would't do that", "it must be a communication problem", and "Mark's a really nice guy, he's just really busy.." defences - just like we're hearing here.

I don't think anyone wants Shootsoft to close down. However, I don't think anyone wants them to end up the same as A&A was either. And silently allowing any business to get away with anything without the community being aware of it will eventually breed that sort of behavious, regardless of their current or past intentions or how good their past service may be. And whether it's their first time screwing over a customer or not (not saying that shootsoft screwed over anyone - again making a generalization), making such business practices public will show that the community won't put up with questionable business ethics.

Silently accepting such is akin to someone committing a deliberate crime after a life of no criminal activity, and letting them go scot free because they've never done it before. Do you let the person who's just robbed a convenience store go without conviction because he's never broken the law before? Of course not! Not that this is as serious, but it's still the same principle.

And in case anyone didn't catch this, I'm all about fairness and despise greed of any kind...

Burn the witch! Stone the infidel!

As far as I go, from what I've read on these forums shootsoft still has some of the best service I've seen as a Canadian retailer. They'll get my order this week as soon as I can get age-verified (which should be tonight).

I don't want people to stop doing business with Shootsoft just because of this, but I do want people to keep track of where their money is going.

As for the JG 416, it wont be arriving now until the 11th of June!

Glad to see that you are finally getting your gun...on my birthday:D
+1 to what you said, this was just a personnel experience you went through, it doesn't mean that others went through the same thing and this thread shouldn't persuade others to stop doing business with them...

Armand

thats my lil sister's bday too woot woot, glad that everything is ok now!

one for the history books;)
 

historic events of the 11th of june:
1942 - World War II: The United States agrees to send Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union
1963 - American Civil Rights Movement: Alabama Governor George Wallace stands at the door of Foster Auditorium at the University of Alabama in an attempt to block two black students from attending that school.
1970 - After being appointed on May 15, Anna Mae Hays and Elizabeth P. Hoisington officially receive their ranks as U.S. Army Generals, becoming the first females to do so.
2004 - Ronald Reagan's funeral held at Washington National Cathedral
2008 - Drache finally recieves his JG 416 from shootsoft.ca

Shootsoft FTL.

Horrible service.

WTF?
Because they wont sell to you cause your not verified?

If so; Keep the good work Legros ;)

Well everything ISNT ok... this whole thing isnt about me not getting a gun (although a month late) but no matter I wont get an apology and I wont get a refund for the money owed.

Actually, he sold to me as not verified, but he refused to help / refund because of that. ;)

My 2 cents Not taking sides but can we expect Sears Canada return policy and customer service from a black market industry. Also the early thread mocking the guys English grammar is uncalled for.Legros is fluent in french and trying to communicate in written english.I wonder how many of us are comfortable in both official languages. Anyways I understand your point Drache

*cue the violins

I see, like McIlmoyle said, neither party is likely to budge without losing face at this point, I'm sure if your take it back to a pm level that something could be done to improve the situation, I just hope it isn't too late for that now.

How do you think that? I was told matter of factly that I was NOT going to get a refund on the money they overcharged me on.

I was then told to not accept the gun when it arrives and I'll get a refund for the gun minus shipping costs of course. The gun that I'll have waited on for over a month.

So really there are two options, keep the gun when it arrives and cut my losses, or not accept the parcel when it arrives and be out even more money.

So I've already made my choice, Im just going to keep the gun when it arrives and hopefully find that the right one was shipped this time, and cut my losses. They are the ones who lost a customer over $30! Anyone in NIA, ASK, or some members of ASC knows that I purchase an airsoft gun on average of once a month. I think that would have been worth more than a simple $30 don't you think?

Hey, Drache, just a side topic...

You really buy an airsoft gun once a month? You are absolutely a big customer. Anyone is too stupid to lose such a big customer like you, especially just over $30!

I wish I have as much cash as you do...

You made right choice ,losing money and having the gun is better than losing money and no gun. Hope you get gun,order a pizza and have a better day

I have a bad habit of either:

A) Buying guns that later break
b) Getting bored with a gun and selling to buy another

youch, that sounds terrible. I would do the same thing and just keep the gun knowing that I would be losing more money over it, i just think that since this has been made public that for either side to concede would likely be seen as losing face

unfortunately from a retailer's standpoint, they will be losing any profit that they would have made on that gun by refunding your $30 + the return shipping costs should you decide to refuse the gun, they are trying to cut their losses by offering a refund for the gun's price minus the shipping

and for you it is a similar situation of cutting your own losses by taking the $30 loss and keeping the gun

I really hope this gun works out for you :D

See I dont really understand when you say I would lose face for conceding? Concede to what? Ive already decided to cut my loss on the $30....

well to concede would be to remain silent about the whole thing and not go public with it, you are obviously peeved about the service received and decided to bring to the forum, but you do have a point tho, there is nothing left to concede in that you are already taking the loss of $30 and that should be the end of this, unless the gun shows up and its wrong/broken/etc. god forbid

The biggest reason I didn't keep quiet about this is the fact that many people have PM'd me with problems since I posted this but they dont want to "rock the boat". Personally I was raised to stand up for yourself, especially if you've been wronged in some form.

This whole "live and forget because there are too few retailers" mumbo-jumbo sickens me.

I thank LeGROS for starting up retailing again and with fair decent prices! But they should work on their customer service skills a little more.

So your saying I should go on eBay, find something for super cheap such as an item that normally costs $20 for like $5, buy it... then when I find out its going to cost $25 for shipping, tell the seller I want a refund on the added shipping cost because I know its only $15 for shipping...?

Sorry Drache but maybe in that added shipping cost is the Handling part.
Packaging the gun up in paper, taking it to the post office....

I know I wont sell an item at cost + shipping. I always bump the shipping up to cover the paper/tape/gas/time. Say shipping costs me $24.00, ill make it an even $30. it would break down into:

Shipping cost at CP - $24 Example cost.
Roll of paper - $1 Dollar Store
Roll of tape - $1 Dollar Store
Gas for car - $2 Driving out of my way to post office and back.
Profit - $2? Fair enough.

Take into consideration that the price on the Canada Post website you get for shipping may be off by a bit when you actually go to ship the item, so the "profit" may go up or down because of that.


I have ordered from shootSOFT and I am very happy with the service I got. I purchased a metal body and an m203 launcher. It arrived before 20 days from sending payment to opening the package up. Always had fast communication, friendly service. I will do business with Christian and Jay again for my next order and I will continue to tell my friends to buy from them.

Demo PLEASE reread or learn to read before posting, saves people a whole mess of headaches.

We are NOT talking about an inflated shipping charge here! We are talking about how I paid $30 EXTRA to get the gun shipped XPRESSPOST but instead the gun was shipped REGULAR POST!

Now if you cant understand that I would suggest going back and playing with your ninja turtles....

Demco11 - I suggest you reread this thread and get the whole story. Your entire post is not even remotely related to the actual complaint Drache posted.