I think the title of this thread should be changed to "Why no simple answers to which gun", because that's the educational point that it makes.

Everyone has varying experiences
I wouldnt say you have been misinformed Donster. Just because someone experienced something one way does not mean the experience will be the same for another person. If anything, this entire thread is just a big collection of info for an entry level airsofter to read over and take all its points made into consideration.

What really bothered me though is how we have the noob tank section when it's pretty much the same as the FAQ section.

Maybe we should just change the name of the FAQ section to "the noob tank".

That's really just my opinion and we should probably sticky these or make a copy and put them into the FAQ section.

i see your point, but this section is where noobs can ask their questions without being worried of being flamed. basically its for all the nice guys like T7, m102404, etc etc who will answer questions with the upmost patience. Also, pointing noobs to the FAQ in this section is kind of redundant IMHO. Basically, this is a "Get out of Flame Free Section" where noobs can ask and commit the most serious of ASC noob crimes and get away with it.

The Saint and I discussed this earlier on today. Essentially we both agree that unlike the FAQs where info is static fact, this area is an open disccusion that reveals both sides of a situation in regards to a topic.

have you owned both TM and CA guns? both of the same version?

Personally I'd much prefer the CA over TM(M4s anyway). And if you are to ever expand the guide, don't talk about guns that you've never owned you're self.

As long as noobs finds all these exchanges informative... You see, for me ROF is not an issue. Since I fire 90% of the time in semi or very short bursts, I don't mind TM's lower ROF. Same goes for FPS. I don't NEED a 400 FPS gun to play well.

Out of the box, for the prices we pay here, I want something that works without having to open it up and play around in it.

Would you buy an ass-cheap computer that need all the internals swapped or upgraded just because the casing, keyboard and mouse looks cool ? I'd go with unpack-plug-play. The rest can be changed later.

I agree. I play mainly semi auto so a low fps is nice also for a first time player it would be better. I say this because what if you got lit up to close from a gun that stock shoots 350 you don't like it. But if you get lit up by a tm which will shoot 250 to 280 (depending on the barrel length) and its slower rof your not as pissed.

And all Donster was I think trying to say in general was TM is the Benchmark to which others are. So having a CA TM comparision is great. I think most should be TM/brand x. I've always been happy with TM stuff. I haven't owned alot of it. But it was some of the best I have had.

I see your guys's points, it was just the first thing I thought when I read the announcement of the new section. It does make sense so I guess I support this.

I don't know what brand my AEG is but I still think that we should include some of the other models (G&G/ICS/Well/Aftermath). Since the Well's and Aftermath's will most likely be more in the price range of a noob.

eg. something like this. (I'm sure it's already up somewhere on the site) You guys are free to modify this list and redistribute. I just think lists make things concise and short. Then we can link to reviews of the companies.

Low Grade
Aftermath (non-standard hopup units, rubbers, and barrels but easy swap)
CYMA (have been getting better, full metal usually now, I'd almost put them in Mid Grade)
Cybergun (they are an importer, not a manufacturer, Cybergun branded guns are usually Well)
Well (not sure I would even rank them this high, they are bottom of the Low Grade barrel at the very least)
JG (known to be solid performers but chance of getting a lemon and all plastic)
Echo1 (rebranded JG's, sometimes with cheap potmetal bodies added)
AGM (at least their M14's, other than hopup/barrel its a TM clone)

Mid Grade
G&G (full metal but known for shoddy internals)
STAR (known for motor problems and pistons stripping)
TM
KWA (verdict is still out for long term reliability, might be high grade)
King Arms (again, verdict still out)
ICS (come stock with mechbox busting aluminum pistons, slightly non-standard gears but can be replaced with standard ones if you swap the bushings)

High Grade
CA (full metal full goodness)
G&P (godly)

My opinions. I wouldn't put TM in high grade; I mean they are top quality for reliability and lasting forever out of the box (have heard stories of stock TM guns going 200K+ rnds without a problem) but they just need so much work to get them to a serious level. It does kinda pain me to put ICS in Mid Grade because I swear by them and love them, but out of the box performance could be better. With a little work ICS guns can be amazing though, definitely top end.

I wouldn't classify Cybergun as any... they rebrand all different companies so they shouldn't be relegated to just one.

JGs are now full metal with 7mm ball bearing bushings, shooting at 380-450fps out of the box.

+1 totally
Props to CA :D

I wouldn't consider JG, Echo1, and CYMA to be "low grade". Sure CYMA has some low end shitty guns, but their higher end guns are amazing.

I'd consider those companies "mid grade", with TM and KA and probably others should bumped up to the "high grade".

Oh, so they made them less reliable, thanks for the heads up. I have had to replace 2 sets of ball bearing bushings recently because they blow out under normal use. One was in a 325fps mechbox and the other in a 400fps mechbox. Both sets where SystemA bearing bushings, and not the cheap Area 1000 ones. Solid metal all the way, didn't effect my ROF at all, still pushing 23rps.

ok no man i have heard systeam parts have gone down hill i used the deep fire ones and put around 10 k rounds threw it and still going strong on my mech, if i rember correctly it was aactulay jgs that used the weird bushings stock so this is a total upgrade.