That really has nothing to do with it. You need to be 18 to play airsoft most of the time. By that point in your life, you should be making your own decisions.

SHOULD being the opoerative word. lets be realistic. that's not always the case.

other than to satisfy your curiosity, there's nothing usefull about posting tentative...to anyone.

in any case, the seasoned hosts will ignore them for the most part so this is really mute.

It is true Tents are of no use

Although I am still quite new to hosting games, I have stopped having a tent list cause I need to know WHO is confirmed, knowing who is confirmed lets me know if I should be spending my time hosting a game. If not enough people show up and we end up having a poor turnout that really kills it for me.

When Defcon started losing its regulars I stopped hosting cause it was not worth it anymore to host a game with only 3-4 people. I always get Tents at Defcon so I said forget it I am tired of maybe's showing up or not. I don't mind you dropping out cause of life reasons thats fine, we have all been there.

But Tents and people who confirm they are in but do not show and don't even give me a reason why really bug me, cause it shows they are not committed to having a game so why should I commit my time for you?

Why don't you PM them then and find out? Keeps the threads clean ('cause for a structured event the host has to go back through them over and over as guys edit their posts to say In/Out...what team they're signing up for/etc...). If you want to chit chat with your buddies or favourite shooting partners take it to PMs or MSN or Facebook or twitter or *SHOCK* call them.

Question
 

Is posting that you're 80% in for the event better than than posting "tent" or does that clutter the thread too?

this is a joke right?

pull a dictionary off the shelf and flip to the word committed ... what does it say?

Not a Joke.

80% is not a confirmation

80% in is tentative

100% in is confirmed

so it's no better.

is there a point to this?

Having a player roster is a good way to gauge the quality of the players that will be attending and by extension the overall quality (or style) of the game.

Call it what you will, but I know certain players will bring a level of play to the table that others simply will not and I don't necessarily feel like going to a game just to find out i have no interest in playing with the people there.

That being said, tents on roster are useless. Knowing that so-or-so MIGHT be there doesn't give me any kind of clear indication if I wanna go. If its some skirmish or whatever, fine, but for serious events there shouldn't be any tents: get your shit organized and figure out if you're going or not.

I also think this is why private games are becoming the norm.

And for the few public events left, flakers should just get blacklisted.

I PM'd Steve after I posted that to his skirmish game at CQB and asked if I'd be allowed to walk on if I only got freed up later after the game had started.

I reaffirmed in the PMs that I would be fine if he said no...and fine if he needed to bump me out for someone who could confirm.

Post #49 I firmed up as soon as I got the green light from the wifey (and I confirmed Wildcard too since he figured out what day his flight would get in)...I would have posted an Out in that post if she had pulled rank on me.

:D

And if you were really an internet sleuth you'd be able to track down that despite Steve replying to my PM that I'd be welcome whenever I could make it, he never put me on the player list until I had confirmed in the latter post....so, nyah! :D

I'm an open book, got nothing to hide...it's an easy read too.

(But it's a half-cocked cheap shot like that which will make it simpler for me who gets into any events I'm involved with...heh)

^

LOL, sorry I couldn't resist. Nice response though.

You didn't have to defend yourself with such manly vigor though. It was a wee bit unnecessary but humourous nonetheless.

I have never met you and probably never will but you're good guy obviously (I think anyway).

I just choked on my beer on that one.......nice answer Tys

tys you need to get your ass out of TO and come play in the backwoods sometime. lol. i'll put you as tent on all my games from now on ;)

Here my 2 cents after a lot of hosting games in québec.

I put the tentative for now in the roster and player have to confirm 2 week prior to the events, if not confirmed i remove them from the roster. I do that only for player i know that are actually be there, other won't even be asked to play.

In the after action reports i put the last signup roster : and i put comments and color to it. So everybody know what you did ( Being late, leaving early, not showing up or given weird reason. ).

If everybody see it, it give a lot more punch than only host in a private forum, trust me. the team will be pointed out, the friend gonna be reminded that his firend is not thrustworthy and so on. The pressure will come to this player from everywhere and this is working.

this year i have over 95% of attentance.. With 1 game of 89 players out of 90 who were signup.

We also screen player, we choose who can come, and if you have been seen to flaked out, guess what.

I also tried pre-payment in the past, the result was better, but nevertheless i still have gotten 10-12 players who did flaked out.

There is a game organizer here in quebec for host. The programmer will add the flaker rating to it on the next version.. the tool already exist in french. it could be translated i guess.

I will begin to use it for all game next year.

JF

If there's an argument to be made for Pre-paying, it would be so that the hosts wouldn't be out of pocket. I know that Z and Scarecrow spent money to set up zombies last weekend, and that isn't free. If there had been pre-payment, (be it refundable or not....say within 24 or 48 hours) it would at the very least help them offset the cost of the leg work beforehand.

As Tyson said, $20 may not send someone home from a night at the bar, but it adds up. If there are 10 no shows, that's $200 that had been counted on that's no longer there. Ok, so there will still be the same amount of people there, but at least the same losses won't be incurred by the hosts.

my only concern now is that someone will have to dedicate more time to doing a lot more administrative duties. I agree that a deposit or prepayment would be nice to ward off flakers but it might make things tougher on games where it's typically one or two people hosting/organizing. for a much larger event, I don't see it as much of a problem seeing as you'd probably have more game officials and additional help. maybe this is something to look into a little more for the private field games.

Pre pay only makes sense for private fields where the host is the owner/manager. at paintball fields the host has nothing to do with the money.

I know. I mentioned that previously.

You know you can keep beating this until the horse is dead but it won't change anything... a chronic flacker will always be a flacker.

It all comes down to that we are adults here so start taking responsability. Yes shit happens, we all know that. I myself have had to drop out of games for whatever reason but I have always made sure that I let the host know that I will not be able to show up. I have never woken up and said shit I don't feel like going airsofting today... when I commit I am there. But the problem isn't the guy that drops out every blue moon... the problem is the guy or guys that drop out or worse just don't show up on a regular basis.

When I host games they are always rain or shine. If you're an airsofter that doesn't like to play in any weather except sunny and 22 degrees then play in doors and don't bother signing up for outdoor games.

If you're planning to go out the night before and get shit-faced then don't sign up.

If you want to go but don't have a ride then arrange for one and then sign up.

If you sign up for a game, then DON'T DECIDE to drop out because you decide to go to another game instead... this is the flacker that I hate the most. I'm not even going to get into why there are two games on the same day.

As a host I post tentatives but I don't hold any stock in that palyer coming out until they confirm and I usually ask all the tentatives to firm up. If I've put a cap on the game and I get players that are willing to confirm before the tentatives decide then they get the spot and the guy on the fence is out of luck.

I've started to keep track of the flackers that never showed for the games that I host and the chronic flakers will not be welcome to my games.

And the guys that always come late... well that's a different thread.

Tys, now that's an airsofter... wife in labour and he still finishes the game! I think I would have understood if you have to leave early. :smile:

Thanks for the kind words mate... hope to see you at a game soon.

Just read through this thread front to back and I have a question that I will precede with a wee comment.

I'm a reasonably new player, so I don't remember the "good old days" at all - I joined up shortly after the most recent "sky falling" spell a couple of years ago. Since then I've seen alot of threads about how clearsoft is ruining the sport, noobs are breaching the defences in hordes, etc. I try and stay out of the arguments since I really don't have much to compare the community to. So now I rely on you vets who have been around a while for a bit of your input.

Has the number of players who actually show decreased, or has the flake percentage merely increased? That is to say, has the community grown such that we have many more players with more chronic flakers per capita, but the actual number of players has remained steady or possibly gone up? Or have the numbers simply gone down as more old timers recede into the woodwork and the new blood just can't be counted on?

It's always interesting to get comments from guys who have been around for a while...I kinda wish I had the time and patience to read through the collective archives of ASC, but something tells me there's much more "useless" than there is "intersting," and most of the fun I've missed out on has been on the field anyway. At any rate, perhaps one of you could comment on the above?

On a more "mere chatter" note, I will admit I have tented my fair share of games...usually with a "if school/ride doesn't fuck me" added on. That being said, thanks to Brian's vigorous campaigning, as it were, I've stopped. So score one conversion if you're keeping track.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go mug an old lady so I can get some money together and confirm at the next FR game.

In my opinion, the degree of flaking has remained pretty constant.. However.. the demographic for AS has been sliding younger over the past couple of years.

I think this is due to the cost to get in the game heading on a downward trend.. people with less disposable income find that they are able to afford to get involved. With respect to the overall growth of the community.. this is a good thing.. more people in .. mean more people getting serious about it and going deep into the hobby .. with investment in good quality gear and guns and investment in training such.

But with a younger demographic comes the "fickleness of youth" where there are very many social demands on time and where just a little too much wasted time results in scholastic crunches that can play havoc with planned funtime. Couple this with people who are working part time and trying to pick up as much work as they can ( so thay can afford that better gun and better gear) and you set up the likelyhood that people may not be able to or inclined to attend a game they said they would.

this is also the genesis of the "tentative" posting for the aforementioned reasons people have trouble doing much advanced planning as the Schedule is constantly in flux due to unforeseen work opportunities or scholastic pressures. I understand the issues.. I was a starving student with expensive hobbies as well.

The solution is .. to not post you will be at a game until you are sure you can make it.. even if this means on the day of the game..

I get lots of people who PM me on game day asking if they can come to a capped OP .. I have very rarely turned anyone away.

But if you post "tent" and then neither commit nor show up .. you go on my " not to be trusted list" which is not easy to get off of.

Top Reason in my book, plus from speaking with other old timers.

1 Economy, people just don't have the money to be dropping on games, and upgrades for the fix and repair daily AEG's.

2. CBSA crack down, and loss of critical retailers, combined with stricter ant-gun policy.

3. Old timers are burnt out, and have priorities that they neglected before and are now on the top of their to do list.

4. The wearing down effect of added cost & aggravation of constantly fixing over priced low quality products from Asia. Especially in these economic times!

5. And of course, Crapsoft & Clearsoft undermining game play. This also undermines the quality of AEG's. Also from I have been told even when buying good internals has been going down as well. Not to mention the constant new companies popping up from china, and there endless clones that only hurt the more reputable, and named manufacture's. Airsoft should be improving in quality, not going the other way, although from what I have herd, and seen now is that some of the newer made AEG apparently are getting back on track. ( Gun doc's knowledge needed)


These are my opinions combined from others I have spoken with have said about the community & game play.


My personal prediction is as the economy sort's it self out over the next few years, things are going to vastly improve into another "Airsoft Golden Age".

This depends on the economy improving, and no more increases of restriction from CBSA or government, but don't count on that, if anything they will increase the restrictions.

Thanks guys, appreciated.

Player flake in my opinion has increased dramatically, back in the pre internet/ASC, cell phone days Poncho, Wilson,Gary and Vince used to organize the games weeks at the latest and months ahead at the earliest, the numbers of players showing up has always been more than expected, I remember the days where we manage to stuff 60 plus players in paintball city all this was done by word of mouth and a house phone. sometimes Poncho even have to reject players because there were so many that showed up.

Back to present days aside from conflict of schedules there are games that the vets avoid simply because it's not organized properly or inexperience host hosting or it could be as simple as teh players attending. Player flake numbers has increased due to the vast amount of games available and in My opinion it is also the mentallity of teh present day players where there is not much effort needed in order to attend games compared to the late 80's, I mean some of the players have so many games choices to attend that they don't care if they miss a game or two, there is always next week.

The unwillingness of noobs to appreciate and observe the rules set by a vet host is also another reason why there are such big gap between the attendance of vets in games ie. Defcon games, you will not see vets attending those shoot em up games because they lack the structure basicly it's who ever have the biggest collection of hicap WINS! The CQB games by Tyson you'll see alot of vets attending because it's structured and controlled
How often do you see a post in the games section where a noob player can't get squared off and request an exception?? by the way telling a person who kindly bring extra gear without any rental fees so you can get squared up and not showing up for it is also uncool. the way I see it if I can make the effort to get squared up properly with my gear, guns etc why can't they?
Not all of us can get our stuff all at once hell I started with ski goggles, jeans and my JAC when I first started, but I made teh effort of getting my shit squared up ASAP I understand that there are other priorities in life that require your attention or funds that's why this is a hobby and it is a hobby for RESPONSIBLE persons.

it will never improve to sort it self out or be better unless the current new crop of players learn and respect the existing rules, Economy wise games now are a lot cheaper than those offered to us back in the days

Government restriction? well no matter how many times I've read about the sky is falling shit I can still get guns and play with my friends

increase in restrctions? I have to agree with you on this point but just because we have a large influx of new players and from what i've seen they are nothing but potential trouble, don't believe me all you have to do is look into youtube, some of the shit I see kids do with airsoft guns makes me wonder if they will ever get a chance to go pass puberty. it only take a few rotten apples to spoil the whole batch

I have only been in this for a year or so, when I joined Lee's group, and started coming out to events. I now bang the recruitment drum to any airsofter/paintball willing to listen. I think part of the problem that hasn't been mentioned to a great extent is teams.

Most guys I have met that are not in a team (these are in their 20s) don't go to games (or likely follow through on sign-ups) because they don't really know many people well, and care less (if at all) if they flake. Granted some of these kids have their heads up their arses, I believe it matters very heavily to have a team of people you know to give the motivation to do the things mentioned. I live in Toronto, but have never gamed here since all the ww2 games are outside the gta. I would rather take an extra several hours of bus time hauling all my ww2 gear than go to a random game at which I know no one for half the price/effort (or maybe it's just me)

I have noticed in the AARs from games where it is random people rather than teams that they have more problems with idiocy. Is this at least somewhat right, or does more of it just get posted in those, and other hosts filter it out?

I would say we should have more introduction/show and tell days, but some time back when jayne had one (or was signed up to help?) no one posted in. I imagine the airsoft convention(s) help with this to some degree, but that is not what they are for.

Setting up a feedback system may not exactly be fair in many cases. I think hosts exchanging info on who flakes for no (good) reason is the best way to go. As an example, I attend living history events with the ww2 group that don't get posted here. At these events we do our best to recruit people (like blank shooters). So if I flake for a game here, yet go to several events that ware weekend long that are not posted here, all people see is the flake. The point is there are too many other games not posted here/posted elsewhere for the system to run smoothly and fairly.

So am I completely wrong/retarded? Anyone found they had more motivation once they joined a (somewhat stable) team? Does anyone else like pie? Is it really a long long way to Tipperary?

I do
 

Like Pie

mmmmmm pie.....