No point, just asking is all.

This always makes me wonder how a markup works in our retailers for non-restricted parts:
Original Price+Shipping (as if its by it self)+ Price conversion+Markup... and all this time people are trying to convince me to support Canadian Retailers when they're being con artist.

well there is retailing for a profit, and then there is gouging people on price, just because something is not restricted doesn't mean that you can't sell it at a profit, but a reasonable profit? what's the rule for that? there is none, it's a free market, people will/should have the common sense to know when they are being ripped off, and then there are those that buy into the whole legal for civilians bs and won't take the chance to order anything airsoft from outside of the country.

You'd be surprised how many people have never heard of asc, but know about 007, mach1 etc.

I was in a place at the chines towers out by pacific mall today and apparently they are getting in the Can legal WE SCAR GBBR for a decent price, can't remember what it was though. Though you all might like to know. :D

orly? :D

Indeed good point, let the market decide prices. I was just quoted $400CAD for a $103US Kalash AK; I turned down the deal as I felt it was too much; hence the "free market" decided.

exactly, the invisible hand and all that good stuff, retailers that charge too much will often find that it is harder to generate revenue and be forced to bring their prices down in order to be competitive

I've been unable to compete with many HK retailers as they under price items but overprice on shipping making it looks like they are severely cheaper. I know exactly how much stuff costs to ship from HK to North America and Europe as i've run my own e commerce business from there as well. Not saying that this is the case all the time but please be aware of this situation as well.

This is an adjunct to the discussion but CAS literally has a monopoly over the Canadian market because they signed exclusive Canadian distribution agreements with KJ and G&G, pushing other retailers (like 007) out.

The Canadian prices are the fault of CAS's pricing floor which all the retailers have to start with even at wholesale because they set the prices and there is no other option since all the dealers have to buy from CAS. If only the asian websites started carrying some stock of Canadian legal airsoft, we might see lower prices.

we could also self import them cutting out CAS

But what's the minimum order direct from the manufacturer?

hope you have a mighty strong chequebook there junior, ordering cansofts isn't like ordering a vest or a battery, they won't deal with you unless you meet their MOQ

i mean't if the asian site carried the half clears the prices would be lower then cas prices basically cutting them out of the picture

For a GBB-R the price seems decent enough. However I foresee people bringing in their own mags I mean at $38 USD = $40 CAD + shipping (lets say $10-15 CAD so you could essentially save $20 per mag if you ordered from overseas). Heck if they made a 10 pack of these mags (and gave a "bulk discount") they would sell like hotcakes and you'd probably be saving $25-30/mag if buying a 10 pack.

CAS also known as BuyAirsoft was also reponsible two years ago for raising the prices of Chinese Airsoft guns when they entered the game, sellers used to sell them between the $180 - $275 range guys like BC Airsoft Supply, after BuyAirsoftjoined the prices jumped up into the $220 - $350 range mostly because they were ordering from American Distributors, so they were the ones who initiated the price hikes.

But the person most responsible would be Mark Anderson who realized that for every gun that arrived DOA would really set him back decided to increase up to the $300 - $450 range plus he was just greedy, especially with all the crappy Firepower shit he was getting from Palco Sports - keep in mind all the guns being sold by the sellers mentioned above were only about $60USD a piece from Asia almost double buying in the States.

Anyhow, Kokanee the reason why you are seeing $400 for these $103USD guns is cause the standard 2.3X pricing doesn't apply, shipping for china guns is the same as high end guns and in some cases sellers pay the same amount to ship
the gun as it is to buy it, then factor in the other costs and you realize these
guns don't make much $$ unless you can bring them in large quantities

Keep in mind guys that my hands are tied when it comes to setting prices on G&G / KJ products. None the less it is good to see more variety of LEGAL products available to Canadians :)

Here is a picture I took of the actual product to spice up to conversation:

http://www.007airsoft.com/products/p...ages/20084.jpg



Ken

Mind explaining why clear receiver guns are any more legal to the end consumer than an all black gun?

I'd like to hear that too. I'm hearing so many guys these days
"OMGZORZ Black gunz scary, you going to get arrested"

Sure it gets around the import stage, but past that.. Who cares?

Yeah I wanna hear the reasoning from someone who uses the term "Canadian Legal" the most (that I've seen) along with other misconceptions (such as saying you need a license for the black guns which is only a half truth). If a LE officer will have reason to do anything to you, I doubt a smoked receiver will change anything in his, the courts or possibly the medias eyes. If it has a barrel and a trigger your a bunny punting baby killer.

Just before someone spouts off, this is not mean to be antagonizing or anything. Just some free and open discussion between between retailer and the market.

The actual requirement for translucent/transparent receivers is stated in the actual CBSA policies, memos, and documentations if you guys want to read it. It is purely for importation purposes. Once the item is in Canada, it makes no difference whether or not it is clear, black plastic, metal, etc. That is already known to most experienced guys and that conversation belongs in the newbie tank, not here. "Canadian Legal" simply means it is legal for import into Canada and has no bearing on its status once in this country. Nothing more. The only laws that would apply to you afterwards are the ones that prohibit you from discharging an airgun within city limits unless it is on your own property, etc. I don't believe I've ever heard any retailer ever saying that you require a liscense to own black guns. That is your own misconception. You would require a business firearms liscense to concievably legally import them however.

No I fully understand all this. I just wanted to hear why people like Ken feel that saying "100% Canadian Legal" isn't something that can be easily confusing for new people and would fall under the impression that only clear guns are "legal" to use and own, thus being a marketing ploy. Its being portrayed as a statute that applies to the end user as well where it has little to no bearing.

And this is not to be an attack on Ken, its about all retailers that use the term "Canadian Legal" scheme.

There's already a large variety of LEGAL guns. All the evil black guns are also LEGAL to Canadians.

Once it's in Canada, it doesn't matter. Like was said before, legality because it's clear is purely an issue for importers and retailers, and has no bearing on the end user.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but NO end user has EVER ever been arrested or charged with any crimes for owning or buying a full black gun.

Section 96 of the Criminal Code (Possession of weapon obtained by commission of offence).

Guess what? Importing replica firearms for the purpose of sale to the general public is an offence as a result of the restriction on the transfer of prohibited devices set out in section 24(1) and the regulation making sections of the Firearms Act.

As I've said before, I'm not particularly hot about the use of the term "Canadian legal", but I'm even less enthused by the people who attack the term based on some minimal understanding of Canadian law.

And no, just because no one has been charged before doesn't mean the law doesn't exist or won't be applied at some point down the road.

Yeah if you buy from someone knowingly smuggling them into the country. If its someone getting them through a legit BFL holder, but fails to adhere to its regulations of not selling to civies, then its not being obtained by Commission Of Offense.

Then theres also this little tidbit:

"Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized
(2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it. "

There are too many contradictions and instability for this to be enacted justly, and worth the time and effort of the courts and police officers. Every single LE officer I have spoken to about this (not saying I openly talk about it with everyone with a badge, just ones I feel comfortable discussing with) say that the general consensus of the LE officers is that as long as we use them responsibly and in a safe manner without attracting undue attention then they won't bother. Act like a jackass with it (bringing it in public, showing your friend etc...) then you best learn a lesson.

This sport is growing and will continue to grow .

At this point why don't we go and try to have the law cleared up theres to much grey area and red tape.

what the clear guns are doing at the moment is allowing anyone to buy these things if we develope a system similar to ukara . it will keep most if not all the people we don't wan't owning them underaged and people with criminal purpose from getting them.

im pretty sure a criminal isn't going to go to 3 games over the course of a few months just to get a plastic toy gun when he can just go out and buy real gun.

You think no one has tried before? Not saying its for nothing but with how stubborn our gov't is, their not gonna change anything without fear of the backlash from soccer moms and people like Miller who think as long as illegal its unobtainable.

how long ago was it actualy tried ?

I mean with the numbers this sport has now compared to then it might be possible if we propose it with a proper system .

we are still citizens we should have the same freedoms as pellet gun users have at least they are able to bring in what they please as far as i know .

Wrong. Importing replica firearms using a BFL and failing to adhere to the Prescribed Purposes is an offence. Hell, it's exactly the reason why Will Wong was convicted and serving 2 years minus 1 day, and why many retailers closed down. The Prescribed Purposes are the only activities products imported through a BFL can be used for, and nothing else.

And section 92 doesn't excuse illegal transfers. Never did.

Finally, you guys are complaining about the whole "Canadian Legal" thing being a just a marketing ploy. I point out that it's actually following the text of the law. Now you guys are saying the text of the law doesn't matter because no one has been prosecuted for it.

It seems like you guys just have a general bone to pick with some retailers, if that's the case, please leave the law out of it and go with the actual root of your problems.

No I do believe this is as much about the law as anything since thats the centre of this whole debate.

The issue with this whole thing is the misconceptions arisen from lack of knowledge by the general public. Im not excluding or pontificating myself here or anything so I may very well be wrong, but I just enjoy a good solid debate.

Your Section 96 doesn't apply to airsoft since its still not exactly defined that airsoft is a Replica Weapon. The definition is that it does not fire projectiles which airsoft do. That and "some airsoft guns" is the term used. What is "some" airsoft supposed to mean? As opposed to what? What difference does the law see in airsoft enough to not generalize the definition?

Here we go again!

Wait.. you've been on ASC since '05
haven't you been reading since then?
It's all been said and tried by people
with all kinds of contacts. If you want
airsoft to become like paintball, an
acceptable game with the mainstream
guns looking like plumbing tools and
neon motocross uniforms.

Saint is right, you can't buy replicas,
hence why they're prohibs. People
licensed to bring them in, do not
have the authorization to sell them
to the public. They can be transfered
to the right businesses for temporary
use ie: props, cops, museums etc.

Be happy you've got people taking
the risks for your addiction, and forget
trying to sell a rediculous public image
to the soccer-mom community.

Anyway back on topic with GBB-rs

Its definitely going to be a smelly year (propane smells like fart), and a lot of Canadian Tire Managers will be wondering why are their small Propane tank sales going up.

My biggest hope is a gun that can tweak the FPS whilst still using propane. I would hate to have to go through the trouble of getting HFC134a when I can just go to C-tire for propane.

'Who is camping in the middle of winter?' They will ask, assuming they are only used for mini propane camping BBQs.

Some people use them for outdoor
heaters, smokers on porches etc.
I just buy them for sniffin'

It just smells so darn good, I can see why you would.

That is true though, didn't think of those uses.

I had forgotten about it .
i've been in hiding for a while.

mabey the next step that gbb manufacturers will take will be to have the guns with a built system to adjust Since they all seem to neglect that not everyone wan'ts to be shot up with 450+ fps guns that aren't snipers .

And propane is extremly accesible any where but intails the high fps compared to hfc.

anyone whos gotten this gun yet actualy tried it with hfc?

and gun that look like plumbing aint my cup of tea. not to mention i don't like paint much and welts that are bigger then a pea .
Bbs don't make whole areas feel sore

also i don't think they tried to sell a pink furry image back in the uk you don't see them using neon coloured or hot pink guns do you ?

YES! you know what? you should make a petition to send to parliament, it's about time someone stepped up with an original and well-thought out idea such as yours, good luck! :rolleyes:

and that's why join date means jack shit on this board.

Sarcasm doesn't transmit well over the interwebs.

And let's get back to topic, please.

I've gotten to hold Huang's JG Clear M4 GBBR, the upper is metal, and the lower is clear plastic, but not the tinted kind so it definitely needs a painting.

The plastic felt great, really flexible, not brittle at all, I wouldn't really worry about it breaking on me, and for the price, I'd take it over the KJ anyday, but that's because GBBR is just a toy for me at this point, nothing I would commit to financially to make fieldable, just something to play around with, maybe use at CAPS etc.

The JG's upper is metal? Nice! PM me.

sooooo is there any chance of getting a metal lower in canada for this thing? and/or any other style of mag (ie. NOT thermold)?? also im super curious about accuracy, since doesnt it use a VSR barrel+hop?

metal receiver see custom order like all other "gray-line market" as for thermold, its the standard, also remember plastic has more heat capacity than metal. (meaning they will reduce temperature less than metal aka better efficiency and less cool down)

Flash did them, you could get a nice G&P or King Arms receiver for 360$ shipped.

The mags are metal and are soooo nice.

Because plastic gbb mags just suck :rolleyes:

For a AR... yeah.

What happens when there (maybe) inevitably in the future.... a GBBR G36 or AUG.... Or maybe even a P90!!!!!
*changing underwear*

Inokatsu had a GBBR AUG in the works. They had some poster of it like, last year. Or earlier this year maybe.. Let me see if I can dig it up.
http://www.strikenews.ru/wp-content/...su-aug-co2.jpg

Metal reservoir inside a plastic shell

okay fair enough haha.

I wonder if in the future, the GBBR will be the new AEG?

IMO no.
Too many downsides (speaking in terms of pure gaming performance) compared to AEGs. GBBRs will probably become much more widespread, but it won't go far enough to replace AEGs...

For Milsim maybe, but for Skirmish use, You will never be able to build a GBB more practical then an AEG IMO

Fingers crossed.

However, it will make the entire world smell like cabbage.

If the cabbages you eat smell like propane....
Chances are you already are going to die soon.

Nah, if you ever have old cabbage in the fridge.

"Hey, whos been shooting my Hi Capa?!"

"No, thats just the fridge"

yah but the tank that actually holds the gas is still metal therefor your heat capacity theory doesn't really work... a mag with a metal shell and metal tank wouldn't differ much from a plastic mag with metal tank. the reason the KJW has better cool-down rates is because since the mag is bigger the tank can be bigger too. plus thermolds don't fit in those open top pouches especially the double mag pouches because of the large ribs on the sides. anyone taken the mags apart yet? maybe a pmag/stanag conversion? dimensions look fairly similar....
scroll down about 3/5ths of the way to see comparison pics between pmag and thermold

Metal has a better heat-conductivity than plastic... so it will absorb or dissipate energy a lot faster than plastic. This is why it becomes cold to the touch.

The actual temperature change happens because of a pressure difference inside the tank, so your tank could be metal, ceramic, plastic, whatever, it won't change anything in the temperature change, metal will just absorb it faster...

but keep in mind the contact of the metal is plastic, and when heat draws away, heat from the plastic will be draw. if its metal, it has lil heat, which cause it to cool down rapidly.

Wrong.

Care to explain?

And are you saying my opinion's about milsim? or skirmish's are wrong?

How do you know? From all accounts you sit in your apartment hugging your precious and never game it.

meh, a few guys on JOC have taken original WE mags (ie metal tank+metal shell) and converted them to pmags (metal tank+plastic shell) and reported no change on cooldown/efficiency and change in relation between external temp and fps. i think any difference can be attributed to KJWs internals/gas system more than any other factor.

For everyone that is concerned about the FPS being so high with this gun using Propane, I found something on youtube that is supposed to reduce the FPS output of the KJW M4.

YouTube- Cradle Airsoft O-Ring Piston and Velocity Adjuster Installation for KJW M4