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What are your opinions of available airsoft grenades? I'm developing a good one!

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Old April 13th, 2007, 02:30   #31
Gryphon
 
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I've intentionally refrained from mentioning anything about pyro to this point but everyone keeps babbling about it.

Making your own explosive articles is dangerous and illegal. Unless you're licensed as a factory and your explosive is on this list, you are committing offenses under Criminal Code sections 79 to 82 and Explosives Act sections 6(a), 6(d), and 6(e)(i). Most of you know what I do, and even I don't make this stuff.

If you make or use it, at the very least have the sense not to boast about it publicly on a board that is known to be monitored by law enforcement.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 04:00   #32
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gryphon hit it on the head. I've used pyro grenades outdoors and they are, quite frankly, awesome. Clearing hooches with nades at KS2 made me fill my pants...loved it, but the reality is, you are using a dangerous (albeit slightly) illegal device. If someone were to ever get injured by one, you could be facing super ugly reprocussions. Unfortunately for this reason Zero's nades will never make it mainstream, and maybe it's best they are kept within our commuinity. ( only 1 left *sob*)

I think madmax is on the right track. Unfortunaltely we need a non pyro solution that works consistantly. If he nails it, I think we will have the next holy grail of airsoft. (at least for me anyways) Good luck, and get it out there, I'm waiting for a viable non-pyro grenade alternative.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 04:15   #33
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ZD knows his shit.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 05:35   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon View Post
I've intentionally refrained from mentioning anything about pyro to this point but everyone keeps babbling about it.

Making your own explosive articles is dangerous and illegal. Unless you're licensed as a factory and your explosive is on this list, you are committing offenses under Criminal Code sections 79 to 82 and Explosives Act sections 6(a), 6(d), and 6(e)(i). Most of you know what I do, and even I don't make this stuff.

If you make or use it, at the very least have the sense not to boast about it publicly on a board that is known to be monitored by law enforcement.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.
+1!
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Old April 13th, 2007, 08:10   #35
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We never actually used them in a game as they use black powder as a propellant and thats a huge no-no, but, it was a very effective design.
Its understood. Then again, blowing gophers out of holes with cherry bombs or quarterstick here up north is common practice, I doubt you'll find a landowner up north with livestock who hasn't done it. You can use an unmodified commercial firework in lieu of making one from BP.

That being said, its not a safe way to do it for the reasons you state and I would not recommend it and I haven't seen a black powder or explosive one used at a public game yet (myself).

The problem with the chemical (baking soda/vinegar gas) ones is they are so useless as to be funny to watch. The expensive gas powered ones are too complex and too easily lost. Running through the bush I'd be too worried about using them. Restricted them to CQC is fine but you lose a whole market that way.

The other option is to make one that is CO2 cylinder powered but *very* inexpensive (ie: under $30). It would have to be simple, with a minimum of parts. We made our own landmine with a CO2 cylinder and parts we bought from home depot. I wouldn't care about form and would prefer function over form. I want something I can lob into a trench or in a bunkered position, I would not necessarily deploy it in tall grass. There are lots of outdoor situations where it would still be a viable strategy to use. Was a lot of work, but designed properly I am sure its viable if you sold them in cases of 6 ($30x6=$180). That I would carry through the bush and not worry too much about losing. The landmines I lost were $180 each.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 09:52   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post


The other option is to make one that is CO2 cylinder powered but *very* inexpensive (ie: under $30). It would have to be simple, with a minimum of parts. We made our own landmine with a CO2 cylinder and parts we bought from home depot. I wouldn't care about form and would prefer function over form. I want something I can lob into a trench or in a bunkered position, I would not necessarily deploy it in tall grass. There are lots of outdoor situations where it would still be a viable strategy to use. Was a lot of work, but designed properly I am sure its viable if you sold them in cases of 6 ($30x6=$180). That I would carry through the bush and not worry too much about losing. The landmines I lost were $180 each.
I agree. For outdoor disposable, CO2 has to be the way.

The two challenges to overcome are:

1 - Explosive fast gas release (not you Jay, I know you have this mastered)

2 - Container that is light, cheap and durable

3 - Trigger and Delay - It's gotta be either static timed, and accurate, or triggered by impact. Also must be cheap.

I think the cheap timed mechanical trigger is where it stumbles. Not sure how you could rig one up.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 10:30   #37
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what about using the same chemicals that are in airbags to make a cork shell full of bbs go bang
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Old April 13th, 2007, 10:41   #38
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what about using the same chemicals that are in airbags to make a cork shell full of bbs go bang
While cold and brief, it's still an explosive charge.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 01:48   #39
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what about using the same chemicals that are in airbags to make a cork shell full of bbs go bang
Airbags use sodium azide which is explosive, unstable, and more toxic than cyanide. Not recommended!
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 18:50   #40
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The one design i found for sale in the UK seemed interesting, the coolest part was that it was an easily reuseable pyro grenade for cheap.

I can't link it now as arnies is down for maintenance, but basically how it operated was the grenade was powered by a blank 12 gauge shotgun shell that would detinate after 3 seconds. This allowed the grenade to be easily recharged by popping in another blank shell and primeing it. It also produced an amazingly loud "Bang" that would be difficult to replicate with gas or spring powered grenades.

The advantage of this over a pure pyro design (such as with a fire cracker) is that you (the retailer) do not have to stock the explosives or even worry about selling them, as hopefully people can purchase the blanks from their local gun shop. Or heck, if you designed a grenade that was similar that used .22 blanks, you could even pickup the cartridges at home depot as they used them in construction.

The disadvantages are that you'd have to see about the legality of the device in canada (I checked with customs on importing, they stated that I needed to fill out a few forms and ask for a "ruleing" on the legality of it, never got around to it however), and their would have to be a 100% reliable way to ensure that a live cartridge would not be useable in the design. Also, i never did check on the availibility of shotgun shell blanks in canada, for all i know they may be prohibited and/or impossible to find. This could be changed by useing blank .22 shells as mentioned above though.

Also, with this design you most likely would not want to try and throw BB's into it due to the whole high velocity high temperature gas meets meltable plastic thing.....


However, if you designed a cheap (under 100 bucks per grenade and under say a buck a use) reliable and safe grenade that produced a noticeable "bang" (or alternately shot BB's in a wide area), i'd probably buy 2 or 3.

Edit: Found the link: http://www.hfmgroup.com/professional...-grenades.html
It also appears to include an adapter for 9mm blank shells, which would most likely be easier to find than 12g ones.

You can see a video of it in action at this website: http://www.combatcentral.co.uk/Image.../bangFinal.wmv .

It seems pretty damned cool

Last edited by Scout255; April 22nd, 2007 at 20:37..
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 00:31   #41
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Wow that looks fun. Looks like there are significant legal issues when exporting them though. Is it me or is that delay much shorter than 3s? It doesn't look like these guys are intentionally cooking off time after pulling the pin. I'm assuming that they're holding the spoon down.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 14:58   #42
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Found some more information at this page:
http://www.combatcentral.co.uk/notes_bfg.asp
He says that the actual time on the grenades is around 2 seconds or so (seems bout right in the video). I've heard a lot that the time can very between 4 and 2 depending on how much you lubricate the timer (or how much dust you get in it...) though i'm not 100% sure how time timer works, this would make sense as it has to be mechanical of some sort.

Also, this would be an awsome product to have here in canada:

http://www.combatcentral.co.uk/produ...ls.asp?PID=132

Trip wires! Man those would be fun.

These may be patented, but most likely they wouldn't be in canada (probably UK and the US maybe) so you could base your design off of them.

These grenades take away the bad part of pyro type grenades (storeing/selling/shipping non-standard and dangerous explosives) and keep the fun parts (the loud bang!).

About the legality, when i talked to customs about it they didn't give me a "Holy hell there is no way that is comming into canada!" it was more of a "Hmmm, well they seem alright, but you should get a ruleing first". As such, who knows, they may be legal to import (or even manufacture).
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Old April 25th, 2007, 10:38   #43
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in the .22 cal there's something called (i think) 'Power Rounds' - anyways they're designed to be used to drive nails in various applications - i remember seeing them in a hardware store a couple years ago.... looked like a standard rimfire .22 short with the end pinched shut instead of a slug...
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Old April 29th, 2007, 22:12   #44
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*tap tap* any updates on when we can see your new creation?
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Old April 29th, 2007, 23:20   #45
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Originally Posted by Royal Paine View Post
in the .22 cal there's something called (i think) 'Power Rounds' - anyways they're designed to be used to drive nails in various applications - i remember seeing them in a hardware store a couple years ago.... looked like a standard rimfire .22 short with the end pinched shut instead of a slug...
I REALLY do not recomend these. I use them all the time finishing basements to secure material to concrete. There is FAR too much shrapnel from these devices. I tried firing the gun in an open area with no nail in it. There was shit flying everywhere out some of them, not all, but a good number had parts of casing lying out when there was no nail in the breach. You might have a few good ones that have no debris coming out, but no way to be certian which ones.

I can't say I'm to fond of using shell/round primers as method for powering the device. I'd actually feel safer with a fire cracker going off. Something about paper debris versus possinle brass debris.




NOTE: I am having a difficult time typing so please excuse the grammer and spelling. Me and a router had a disagrement today, it won. Now the pharmascist loves me, again.
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