Old Version TM M92F Nozzle Return Spring Issue

[skchan2]

Anyone with the old TM M92F/M9 have an issue with the nozzle return spring (part 92B-17)?

Mine keeps popping out (and messing up the springs).

Thanks in advance

[Datawraith]

My KJW M9 has the same issue. I just run it without the return springs and it seems to work fine with no adverse side effects (although I use it less and less because I have TM P226)

[RainyEyes]

Originally Posted by Datawraith

My KJW M9 has the same issue. I just run it without the return springs and it seems to work fine with no adverse side effects (although I use it less and less because I have TM P226)

It's just a return spring it's not imperative like datawraith said. For whatever reason it's nice to have but not essential to install.

[Hectic]

Alot of times the spring from a lighter or pen can be a good stand in for smaller springs. Takes a bit a searching tho. I find Bic lighters have the smallest (in diameter) springs. Click pens have a plethora of sizes. Not ideal of you can source the correct replacement springs for some things but for some stuff they are handy.

[e-luder]

actually, the return spring is quite purposeful.

Without it, the action will slam your blowback housing
into the nozzle causing damage over time. it may evetually break the nozzle. Particularly on the M92, it may sheer off the tabs on the muzzle.

Also, the return spring forces the muzzle to battery to ensure that it clears the feed lips on the mag thereby ensuring a more consistant chambering of the projectile. It will smoothen the action.

Lastly, that nozzle will jam on the piston head if it's not in battery before the slide's action to the rear ends. I cant tell yo how many M92s i've fixed because of this...

I encourage you to find and replace that spring. Buy strong ones if you can. those stock springs are garbage...

[RainyEyes]

Originally Posted by e-luder

actually, the return spring is quite purposeful.

Without it, the action will slam your blowback housing
into the nozzle causing damage over time. it may evetually break the nozzle. Particularly on the M92, it may sheer off the tabs on the muzzle.

Also, the return spring forces the muzzle to battery to ensure that it clears the feed lips on the mag thereby ensuring a more consistant chambering of the projectile. It will smoothen the action.

Lastly, that nozzle will jam on the piston head if it's not in battery before the slide's action to the rear ends. I cant tell yo how many M92s i've fixed because of this...

I encourage you to find and replace that spring. Buy strong ones if you can. those stock springs are garbage...

While I would agree with you, it's actually much cheaper to buy a replacement nozzle than to buy the actual spring itself. I've been trying to find these springs for a while and it's cheaper to buy the nozzle itself than the spring just out of availability... Though I'm not sure what the difference in nozzle springs are between 1911, glocks, etc...

The pen springs are actually difficult to find due to the wide diameter of the pen springs.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by RainyEyes

While I would agree with you, it's actually much cheaper to buy a replacement nozzle than to buy the actual spring itself. I've been trying to find these springs for a while and it's cheaper to buy the nozzle itself than the spring just out of availability...

The pen springs are actually difficult to find due to the wide diameter of the pen springs.

Yeah but the source of the breakage stems from a faulty spring system/design.

If you get the right one, you completely eliminate the issue I spoke of.

The design of that M9 blowback housing is pure garbage. Without the spring to push the muzzle to battery, the prongs that hold that said return spring can eventually destroy the muzzle's return spring tabs. Sometimes, it even severs the muzzle completely if the felt recoil is strong enough (ie. a hot mag). It;s just like the dreaded return spring guide issue on the Marui Glock 18c.

(plus all that other shit i spoke of earlier goes in this graph)

So the springs are imperative unless you WANT to keep buying more muzzles. ANd given the rarity of Marui parts in general, one may be hardpressed to find more.

So you fix the issue by fixing the source problem once and for all...

[RainyEyes]

Originally Posted by e-luder

So the springs are imperative unless you WANT to keep buying more muzzles. ANd given the rarity of Marui parts in general, one may be hardpressed to find more.

So you fix the issue by fixing the source problem once and for all...

I cannot argue with that, but when reassembling m9's and px4's and 1911 tm nozzles, the spring will often fall out of place from the slightest motion and get bent or warped to the point where it is no longer functional... sad face. Like OP said it's a shame when they break because you're essentially SOL.

Unless the 1911 nozzle springs are compatible with other TM models which uses them, then sure...

[e-luder]

How are you re-assembling that M9 slide?

If the springs don't sit still during re-assembley (for any gun) then perhaps from a practical smithing perspective, ( and I don't mean this as an attack towards you) one may need to improve one's smithing practices. A 1911 muzzle spring barely moves during re-assembley. It literally has grooves to hold it place. The only reason why it pop out is if the spring itself is either warped or its been stretched the hell out.

The loading muzzle spring on the Marui M92 is the last thing I put in after shoving the BBH back into the slide.

The spring will spring-out normally during use, partly because the stock spring is not strong enough and because on the muzzle end, there's nothing holding it place. Plus the spring guide is not very ergonomic relative to the spring.

It's a crappy set of springs to begin with. That's why there's so many issues with it.
That's why I recommend using Hectic approach and just replace the spring in general to a stronger one. ...uhh. Both of them...

[Hectic]

And Bic lighter springs are the smallest diameter and have the highest strength I've found in lighters and pens. They are a bit short for some stuff but they do work. The next smallest ones I've found are Bic click pens. The ones where the spring sits in the bottom/tip end of the pen over the ink tube bit. Similar to the lighter ones but a bit longer and wider.

[RainyEyes]

Originally Posted by e-luder

How are you re-assembling that M9 slide?

If the springs don't sit still during re-assembley (for any gun) then perhaps from a practical smithing perspective, ( and I don't mean this as an attack towards you) one may need to improve one's smithing practices. A 1911 muzzle spring barely moves during re-assembley. It literally has grooves to hold it place. The only reason why it pop out is if the spring itself is either warped or its been stretched the hell out.

The loading muzzle spring on the Marui M92 is the last thing I put in after shoving the BBH back into the slide.

On the px4 there's a metal housing where the nozzle return spring sits that needs to be pressed into the slide. The annoying part is that the plastic slides require you to flex it a little in order to get the housing in on TM slides and that movement causes the spring to move out of place.

My question now isn't how do I put it back together but more so where to get stronger replacements. Ad hoc lighter springs might work, but do the 120% 1911 nozzle springs work as well?

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by RainyEyes

On the px4 there's a metal housing where the nozzle return spring sits that needs to be pressed into the slide. The annoying part is that the plastic slides require you to flex it a little in order to get the housing in on TM slides and that movement causes the spring to move out of place.

My question now isn't how do I put it back together but more so where to get stronger replacements. Ad hoc lighter springs might work, but do the 120% 1911 nozzle springs work as well?

If the 1911 spring fits the nozzle guides (on the M92), why not give them a try?
Only one way to find out right? Just make sure the spring is not too big a diameter. Otherwise the spring might bind to other parts of the BBH as it recoils.

I agree with Hectic. I use the BIC pen springs for my DIY fixes (only for the M92 tho). The springs don't recoil as much thus prolonging the life expectancy of the muzzle a bit. Works especially well with two of them in there. It pushes the nozzle back to battery before the spring can fully compress thus, no slamming at all the muzzle tab on the BBU's spring guide.

The other thing you can do potentially loosen the bucking by putting in something soft as a bucking. If the bucking is loose around the loading muzzle, it's going to be easier for the head of muzzle to slip out and retract before the spring can full compress. But just be careful with this one (for obvious reasons)...

[RainyEyes]

Just opened up an 1911, the nozzle return spring is 100% the same as the px4's so I assume that all 1911 and HI-CAPA type nozzles will all share the same return spring made by TM. It does not appear to be compatible with the m9 nozzle.